Gossamer Forum: Gossamer Threads Inc.: Discussion: Gossamer HelpDesk

DogTags · Apr 29, 2001, 10:16 PM

I'm putting in a script request for a HelpDesk system by Alex and the Gossamer gang.

I've hunted around for hacks, etc., for modding the current scripts for helpdesk applications, and I know that WonderDesk apparently is based on DBMan.

Gossamer HelpDesk could be MySQL, have visitor login, lots of email notifications, the ability to create a Knowledge base or FAQ, check for duplicate user names, and tons of other stuff.

I've found lots of scripts, but a lot of them either are very expensive OR don't quite have all the functions you need OR require higher level programming (like php4 instead of php3) OR they require root access OR they don't allow visitor login.

I would be using it for customer support and would eventually like to have it tap into a customer history database generated by my shopping cart.

Have you ever considered doing anything like this, Alex?

Thanks very much.

DT

Stealth · Apr 30, 2001, 7:25 AM

Sounds like a plug-in for LINKS SQL or DBMAN SQL (whenever it is upgraded to utilize the plug-in system).

Regards,

Eliot Lee

DogTags · Apr 30, 2001, 7:45 AM

Yep, that would be a winner.

DT

Alex · Apr 30, 2001, 11:12 AM

Hi,

It has been something we've been toying with the idea of making. Your timing is rather ironic as I spent this weekend setting up a help desk system that we will be using to better manage support. We expect to roll it out later this week.

For those interested we went with Request Tracker at http://www.fsck.com/projects/rt/. It's in perl and uses mysql, but you really need a dedicated server to use it as it uses mod_perl + HTML::Mason.

However, I'd love to roll our own system out, one that has better mail integration. It's definately something we'd be interested in doing. Just a matter of time. =)

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.

DogTags · Apr 30, 2001, 12:44 PM

You might also consider Double Choco Latte:

http://dcl.sourceforge.net/

DT

DogTags · Nov 2, 2001, 6:47 AM

Hi All

I'm reviving my request for a Gossamer Help Desk system.

All the same reasons apply that I mentioned above.

I think that there is a SERIOUS need on the web for a really good, comprehensive, and scalable help desk system for all levels of business or other entities like non-profit guys, clubs, etc.

In fact, a comprehensive Help Desk system would act as the central contact point between customers and businesses by having searchable knowledge bases, an faq, lots of permissions features, mulitple ways for customers to create and respond to help tickets (could create a ticket either right on the site or by sending an initial email to support@). The number of features could be pretty amazing.

This would definitely be a candidate for a plugin, as mentioned by Chewbaca, and I am aware of a whole load of systems already out there, but not one of them offers all that a super system should have.

Next, a nice Shopping Cart system that can handle a million hits a day and thousands of transactions is in order. This should have very deep pricing, shipping, membership options and consider geography, total value, and lots-o-other factors in all cart functions.

Okay, thar's another of my two cents...

Ciao! Cool

DogTags

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Wil · Nov 2, 2001, 7:22 AM

Have you seen the one used by MySQL.com? They seem to have adopted a system that manages your web, email, phone and fax.

You are right, though - there is a definite market for this kidn of product. However, it does seem that this is a heck of a big job! And maybe not the job for Perl.

- wil

Paul · Nov 2, 2001, 7:27 AM

GT are gonna be busy bunnies if they adopt all the recent suggestions lol

Quote:

However, it does seem that this is a heck of a big job! And maybe not the job for Perl.

Perl has more of a fighting chance that anything else...what do you suggest? ASP lol

Wil · Nov 2, 2001, 7:38 AM

No, more something like C++? Or maybe some more advanced programming languages.

- wil

Paul · Nov 2, 2001, 7:43 AM

That would be good. A little scary though and untweakable for those who don't know C++ (which is probably a greater number than people who don't know perl)

Wil · Nov 2, 2001, 8:15 AM

Yeah. I don't think this is really the sort of product for Perl and the Web really.

You wouldn't really manage this from a web browser, would you?

You'd expect to get a stand alone program, most likely for Windows, with features in it etc. There are quite a few on the market, which are very expensive may I add.

- wil

Paul · Nov 2, 2001, 8:28 AM

Yes probably.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of a web script rather than an application before you mentioned it.

padders · Nov 5, 2001, 6:37 PM

I hope it is ok to post this here :)

I have been working for the last 4 months on a helpdesk script. I was a bit fed up of using wonderdesk and it seems to lack so many core features.

Anyway, some features include:

- tickets via web/email
- mysql obviously
- unlimited user fields, ticket fields with custom regex, parsed default values etc. (ie like gossamer SQL fields)
- attachments
- very powerful tech interface, pms, to do lists, email notification manager.

etc...

v0.9.9 has been thoroughly bug tested and v1.0.0 will be out by the end of the week i hope maybe early next week. I am finishing of the stats package for the admin.

The only drawback for you people here is that it is in PHP, which personally i prefere but lets not get into a perl/php argument :)

Anyway, the front site lists it as please wait because the last few things are been set up, e.g. the demo is still using 0.9.9 and there are couple of 404s around but you can have a look here

http://www.deskpro.com/index2.php
and the forums at
http://www.deskpro.com/forums/
and the demo (the email interface ie you send an email and it makes a ticket is not avaliable because I am refining today the template for reply to make it a bit more intuitive after user feedback)
http://www.deskpro.com/demo1
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vBulletin.com Moderator and Support http://www.vbulletin.com/

Stealth · Nov 5, 2001, 6:45 PM

Would be nice if it was integrated with other great software like GT's packages...hehe!
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Katana Man · Jan 11, 2002, 2:03 PM

In Reply To:

I was a bit fed up of using wonderdesk and it seems to lack so many core features.

Hmmm, that's interesting. We (at wonderdesk.com) don't have any record of you owning a WonderDesk license. Care to explain that?

Paul · Jan 11, 2002, 2:12 PM

Bahaha you're going to have some more competition soon...and I don't charge $8,500 Cool

btw padders hasn't been around for 2-3 months.

Katana Man · Jan 11, 2002, 2:23 PM

We don't mind competition, but it's a different story when someone uses the product without a license. That's called "stealing". Of course, using it to develop a similar product/method is also illegal in itself.

Paul · Jan 11, 2002, 2:36 PM

>>but it's a different story when someone uses the product without a license<<

Perhaps an email to padders may be better. He's not been at the forum since November. If you used the information in his forum profile to do the lookup then that may not be reliable.

>>Of course, using it to develop a similar product/method is also illegal in itself.<<

I could understand stealing copyrighted code being illegal, but using it to create a similar script isn't illegal surely?

padders · Jan 11, 2002, 7:05 PM

Hi James,

I wondered why you asked me about where I obtained a license for wonderdek. As I mentioned by email I don't and never had had a license for wonderdesk. When I mentioned not liking the software I meant as a user as opposed to a technician. Both of my dedicated hosts, www.dialtoneinternet.net and www.venturesonline.com both use wonderdesk. During this time is when I felt that a product could be developed that was better.

Nothing has been taken from wonderdesk for use in DeskPRO. For one the code is written in PHP where I believe yours is written in CGI being being based upon DBman.

Either way Alex has a license for DeskPRO here and I am sure if you ask him he could compare the products to ensure there is no likeness between them.

As also explained by email, if you wish to make further threats to me I recommend you contact my lawyer whose address I have recently given you.

Thanks RedRum, you are right I have been a member here since 1998 I believe :) I used to run a links database in the time of Widgetz being here. I now have a Links SQL license but have not really implemented it yet. A bit more time and I hope to do so :) The PHP frontend is something I am looking forward to playing with.
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Bmxer · Jan 11, 2002, 7:36 PM

Quote:

I don't charge $8,500

Yeah, I don't understand how the cost of wonderdesk w/o the logo for the standard is 3,000 $'s more, and in the sql version 7,000 $'s more. That logo is worth that much money?
Lavon Russell
LookHard Mods
lavon@lh.links247.net

Paul · Jan 12, 2002, 3:38 AM

I was also wondering about this:

Wonderdesk is based on dbman which costs nothing upfront to download, yet wonderdesk non-sql version is $3500 - how does that work?

Thats like a 3000% markup Wink

and also why perldesk has become popular.

Wil · Jan 12, 2002, 5:38 AM

In Reply To:

I could understand stealing copyrighted code being illegal, but using it to create a similar script isn't illegal surely?

Yes it illegal if the software or the idea is patented. Amazon have patented the idea of the Shopping Cart System (using cookies to go through a store) and are trying to shut down all other sites and scripters who have ever done something similar!

Paul · Jan 12, 2002, 7:13 AM

>>Yes it illegal if the software or the idea is patented.<<

Yes you are correct however I don't believe WonderDesk own the "helpdesk" patent Cool

Eraser · Jan 12, 2002, 12:55 PM

If that poster is really from wonderdesk.com, then he should learn the first thing about marking your product by association. You don't go accusing people of license fraud/code stealing on the basis of an open-ended comment.

I will remember that company next time a client asks for help desk system recommendations.

~ ERASER

Free JavaScripts @ Insight Eye

BeaverheadRiver · Jan 12, 2002, 1:38 PM

Quote:

Katana Man wrote:

Hmmm, that's interesting. We (at wonderdesk.com) don't have any record of you owning a WonderDesk license. Care to explain that?

Quote:

Then Katana Man wrote:

We don't mind competition, but it's a different story when someone uses the product without a license. That's called "stealing". Of course, using it to develop a similar product/method is also illegal in itself.

Whoops! Definitely proves the old lawyer's adage about never asking a question publicly without first knowing the answer. IMHO, an exceptionally bitter lesson when you realize the learning process has been publicly archived for 12257 registered users and at least that many guests.
--
Rob

SW Montana's Online Community
Modular Model Railroading

Paul · Jan 12, 2002, 2:01 PM

>>Definitely proves the old lawyer's adage about never asking a question publicly without first knowing the answer.<<

....especially when GT are affiliated with Wonderdesk and so could have a knock on effect on their reputation.

Michael_Bray · Jan 12, 2002, 3:45 PM

Amazon aren't trying to shut down all sites that have shopping carts. They wish to shut down the sites that copy them, such as http://www.bn.com which is very similar to them. The CEO of Amazon has said many times that smaller sites or sites that aren't copying them, however the patent was nessecary in order to be able to stop the competition.

So in short, unless you are copying them, don't worry about it Smile

Cheers,
Michael Bray

Jagerman · Jan 12, 2002, 4:45 PM

Actually, www.bn.com is now allowed to use the one-click system because it was ruled that their one-click ordering system was based off a previously existing program and did not copy amazon's.

Jason Rhinelander
Gossamer Threads
jason@gossamer-threads.com

Katana Man · Jan 13, 2002, 11:25 AM

Some of you are combining the two separate posts and assuming that we are accusing. We just wanted clarification on what "padders" meant by his post. We apologize for any confusion.

However, we are currently in communication with Chris from deskpro.com about improper use of the WonderDesk trademark, and misleading and false information about our product on his web site. (Some progress has been made already.)

We are also investigating the person responsible for sabotaging our online demos over the last few months. Chris's current IP and the saboteur's IP come from the same exact place in England. Again, we are not accusing him, and hope it does not turn out to be him. Cooperation with the upstream ISP's will soon reveal the answer.

We won't be posting any more concerning this subject. The conversation has strayed far off the original topic, and this really isn't the proper place to carry on this conversation. Sorry about that.

Paul · Jan 13, 2002, 11:33 AM

Eraser · Jan 13, 2002, 12:52 PM

In Reply To:

and this really isn't the proper place to carry on this conversation

Indeed.

Goodbye.

~ ERASER

Free JavaScripts @ Insight Eye

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:03 AM

James, it is interesting that you suggest this is not the correct place to discuss this and then in the same breath imply (if not accuse) me of sabotaging part of your site. You told me this was done with javascript, this is unfortunatly one language I don't know as many posts at www.sitepointforums.com, here and at www.vbulletin.com over the last few months would attest to. Secondly, I use BT Openworld, one of the biggest ISPs in Britain and the major source of Broadband. I would think their might be more than one person in the country who could be responsible for this. I wish you all the luck in finding the person responsible, as sobatage of someones site is completly unacceptabe. I would also be interested to know when this vandalism took place, I have not had broadband that long so could probably show you that is what not me by faxing a copy (with data) of my joining letter. While I dislike having to prove to you my innocence if that is going to help satisfy you and save another bombardment of various threats I am happy to do so. You implied by email that you would be contacting demon internet for some reason. If the user was using the demon ISP, as I have already let you know, then you can already tell who the person was because they use a unique IP address so I am not sure what the problem is.

I apologise for replying to this again and did not wish to but I feel I do have some right to reply to an implication if not a blatant accusation - something I am not that pleased to read.
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Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 7:12 AM

Ahh doh...I didn't know you were from deskpro.com ....small world.

I'd like to plaster the name of the domain I registered for my script all over this post but it would be blatant advertising :)

....and pointless as it isn't active yet.....and there's no site there lol.

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:15 AM

Go one, what is the domain? I had to pay quite a lot, well it felt a lot for a domain, for dp but I thought it was worth it. Trying to find a domain these days is pretty hard.
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Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 7:18 AM

>>I had to pay quite a lot, well it felt a lot for a domain<<

Oh, did you buy it from someone then?

I got desksql.com ....the product is called HelpDesk SQL

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:22 AM

Nice name! I can't believe I did not think about it (i was looking for domains in July last year). That is sure to be a good one. Yeah, I bought deskpro. Seems that compaq no longer wanted the domain and let it drop. Someone else bought the domain and I then bought it off them. First time I have ever done that (through afternic). It was quite a painless experience really and something I would probably do again. Of course most people think their domains are worth millions but there are also quite a few people there who have sensible expectations. It beats wasting two days trying to come up with a name!
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Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 7:24 AM

desksql.com? Hardly a big hitter with non-technical minded managers? I stuggle to find the meaning of that domain. The last time I looked my desk here at work wasn't made out of SQL. Unsure

I just don't associate desks and sql together. Desk is not a computer-term, surely? I would of called it something more sexy like "customer relations manager". "customer support manager". I dunno - just not desk. I associate "a desk" with a big clunky thing made that I work on.

- wil

Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 7:25 AM

>>That is sure to be a good one.<<

Thanks...

If you don't mind me asking what kind of price range was deskpro.com?....are we talking hundreds or thousands?

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:33 AM

$550 (about that). I thought I did pretty well really. I was only really trying the place our for ideas on suitable domains but there were a lot more reasonable offers than I thought.
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Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 7:34 AM

If you're not an IT manager, and you want a support system then surely that what you're going to look for? Talking about desks or SQL isn't going to help a non-technical IT manager. I know this from experience in a small/medium sized company, and the way managers and colleagues search for software.

- wil

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:39 AM

True but finding a name with the word support in it is not that easy. Most of them have gone and I tried tens of thousands of words. Absolultesupport.com was I think the best one left but it might not have been that. What I like about mine is it is short and simple. I think people generally go to the site based upon recommendations, descriptions and seeing the software in action.
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Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 7:41 AM

I agree with you on the reccomendations, and the way it's indexed and so forth. I just think it's good to have another domain, maybe a more descriptive one that's a backdoor entrance, that works side by side with your nifty one.

- wil

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:45 AM

That might be a nice idea thinking about it :)

The other advantage of DP is D is higher in the alphabet for listing :).
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Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 7:45 AM

>>True but finding a name with the word support in it is not that easy.<<

I found one :)

supportsql.com

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 7:50 AM

hehe. I didn't have sql as one of my words to add to the end of the other words (i made a script to generate lots of names and then check them all).
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Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 7:52 AM

Ya gotta have sql in there :)

Lets everyone know how powerful the script is lol

Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 7:56 AM

Why do you want SQL in there? Think of your potential customers, how many of them will associate the word "SQL" with what they're looking for - Customer Support Managing software. A very tiny minority will - maybe. Go for key words like support, help, manage, automate, ticket, knowledge. These words make a hell of a lot more sense to the people looking for your product.

- wil

QooQ · Jan 14, 2002, 8:07 AM

I thought folks just visit :: hotscripts.com / cgi-resoure.com / freshmeat / and / sourceforge ....

why bother with yahoo or google ... I go straight to the major listing services.

Maybe I miss a lot of nice scripts this way but ... hell ... if a developer is willing to list where simple folk like me will look why should I dig for them. Unless, somebody recommends a script to me, which is a different story.

Oh well ... I guess I'm just to lazy. Laugh

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile

Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 8:38 AM

But how would you know about hot-scripts.com etc. without the likes of google.com?

- wil

Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 8:45 AM

If you look at a lot of major sites they have domain names unrelated to their service.

You just pointed out one... google.com yet its one of the most popular sites on the internet. yahoo.com....another.

deskpro.com, wonderdesk.com, perldesk.com all popular in their field and dont use the keywords you mentioned.

The url is rarely seen. Listings on search engines, script directories etc are all title/description.

Fair enough, not everyone knows what sql means but a large amount do and even if they didn't understand the URL I doubt they'd bypass the site if the searchengine description interested them.

....oh and the most obvious...gossamer-threads.com - meaningless ...so your theory is not quite right.

Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 9:24 AM

Gossamer-Threads isn't pointless?! It catches on the idea of the World Wide Web Look up in the dictionary the meaning of 'Gossamer' and threads is self-explanatory.

- wil

Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 10:08 AM

Meaningless not pointless Wil....

It is meaningless to those who don't know what it means - just as sql is.

Have a good evening.

Stealth · Jan 14, 2002, 10:38 AM

I think that the best product name is Clarify by Amdocs...which is a pretty good "Customer Relationship Management" (CRM) product (allows multiple communication channels, including voice, fax, wireless, web, email, etc.).

More info: http://www.clarify.com

For the purpose of handling technical questions that web managers or IT managers receive via two channels of web and email is probably fine to call it "desk sql", but I do agree that producing a company-wide enterprise package, a more intuitive name would be needed.
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 11:08 AM

Wow thats good for NS.

http://www.desksql.com/ is up and running - only registered it a couple of hours ago.

Jagerman · Jan 14, 2002, 11:16 AM

Try saying "desk SQL" ten times fast. Tongue

Jason Rhinelander
Gossamer Threads
jason@gossamer-threads.com

Paul · Jan 14, 2002, 11:17 AM

Ha and gossamer-threads!

deskskslqlslqll

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 11:27 AM

In Reply To:

I think that the best product name is Clarify by Amdocs...which is a pretty good "Customer Relationship Management" (CRM) product (allows multiple communication channels, including voice, fax, wireless, web, email, etc.).

More info: www.clarify.com

Ironically they don't agree :)

Clarify.com is now on amdocs.com

but clarify is a better name, much like I prefere goto.com to overture.com
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Stealth · Jan 14, 2002, 11:39 AM

Your post is confusing, Chris...

Look at what I wrote:

Clarify by Amdocs

I already denoted that Clarify is now produced by Amdocs.

What did you mean in your post by the following statement?

Quote:

Ironically they don't agree :)

Goodbye!
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

padders · Jan 14, 2002, 11:48 AM

Eliot, I was not trying to get at you. Sorry if it came over that way. It justs seemed on that site that they are not doing any branding for the word clarify, everything is called Amdocs Clarify for example and there does not appear to be any clarify logo.

But yeah it is a good name, they are just not pushing it that much. Really not worth arguing over :)
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Wil · Jan 14, 2002, 12:15 PM

Who doesn't know what Gossamer-Threads mean?

- wil

Bmxer · Jan 14, 2002, 2:52 PM

I know what it means since I've been here for a while, but for someone who doesn't, they could think it's the name of a Forum Package, based on the Threads word. Although they do produce a forum.
Lavon Russell
LookHard Mods
lavon@lh.links247.net

Wil · Jan 17, 2002, 11:59 AM

Here's an interesting (well, not really) article that backs up your argument.

http://www.siliconvalley.com/...gillmor/dg011301.htm

- wil

Warp · Jan 19, 2002, 4:27 AM

Gossamer is Alex's surname?

Threads - trying to thread something thru a small hole?

to me, Gossamer Threads meant nothing...(as i seen no "why" on the website about the use of the words..)

Warp.

Paul · Jan 19, 2002, 5:31 AM

>>Gossamer is Alex's surname? <<

No, his surname is Krohn.

Wil · Jan 19, 2002, 9:49 AM

Code:
gos·sa·mer (gs-mr)
n.  
A fine film of cobwebs often seen floating in the air  
or caught on bushes or grass.

On the old, original GT website there was an explanation. See the URL below for yourself.

http://web.archive.org/...ossamer-threads.com/

- wil

Jack · Jan 20, 2002, 4:33 PM

Actually,

We DO have a posting on our site about the origins of Gossamer Threads. Wink

http://gossamer-threads.com/corporate/index.htm

Jack.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Ong, C.O.O., Gossamer Threads, Inc.
9th Floor, 100 West Pender, Vancouver, BC, Canada, V6B 1R8
Email: <jack@gossamer-threads.com>
Tel: (604) 687-5804 Fax: (604) 687-5806

MarcPSummers · Mar 11, 2002, 2:44 PM

I have just read all these messages and haven't found a cheap helpdesk script - mmm - there has got to be one

so why doesn't www.desksql.com work yet - you have had 2 months since your post. Crazy

Best Regards
Marc P Summers
Canterbury City Council

Paul · Mar 12, 2002, 1:29 AM

Yeah sorry about that. I've been busy with clients which left me with little time for my helpdesk.

You may wish to try www.perldesk.com

Gossamer HelpDesk

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