There are a few mods here that folks are charging $$$ for. And there seems to be a few who do not like that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong here $$$$ wise. Look at Linux... and redhat, or slackware, or... ...and the list goes on. These are all Linux "mod" creators.

I personally think Alex has a winner with Links2 that can be (and very well might be) on the same growth pattern as how Linux is with reguards to it being free and open coded. Information is the "blood-line" of the web. Linux is the "body" to house the information. Links2 is the "heart" that keeps that information flowing how and where it needs to flow.

Look at how many "so called mod creators" there are making $$$ in the Linux ball park. The nice part about all that is it opens the product up for everyone no matter how much they have or want to pay.

There are a lot of people in this world who are "Rich" in the brain and "Poor" in the pockets. That is what built linux's R&D to what it is today.

The latter is one of the reasons Linux has grown to what it is today! It is free and they allow others to use the source code for free. In the end ALL are winners!

Not sure if he ment it that way, but Alex has a perfect market structure now. He has Links2 for free to whom it should be and he will get his payback with his new version Links SQL. Plus, he gets all this feedback for new ideas on what the market needs and he will fill it I am sure in his $$$ products.

The other nice thing for Alex is that he does not really have to spend any more time on Links2 versions (unless he wants to)... as it is really taking care of itself (who's counting the new mods over the past few months.). Links2 has taken off on its own now, like a snowball rolling down a big hill.

All the mods and the way we are doing them with this forum are keeping everyone happy on its own force. Again, just like Linux did and is today! .

Now, if Alex where to take Links2 one step further and allow use of his Links2 source code in the same manner as Linus Torvalds did with Linux eight years ago (with the GNU Project and the Free Software Foundation in Cambridge).... This allowed the code to be sold by others at no charge. More importantly it allowed "free" R&D growth. Such a ploy by Alex would undoubtedly put Links2 on a never-ending-hill of success!

The market takes care of itself. The greedy get left in the cold eventually! The "smart" who keep things in balance will win in the end.

One way or the other... lets keep those mods coming

TimRyan


[This message has been edited by timryan (edited August 06, 1999).]

The problem, is Links is _NOT_ free software. It's free to some.

The companies you mention offer _FREE_ software, but charge for support, CD ROMs, etc. Linux is FREE. The support costs.

What you are really saying, is that people can use Links 2.0 for free, the really great program, but have to pay for add ons to Alex's work?

So, those of us who contribute free to the forum, like Bobsie, should allow their work to be used in commercial projects where someone else is making the money on all the support?

The problem Tim, is not charging for programs. It's doing so within this cooperative atmosphere.

To say the people who want it free are just mooching off the programmers is unfair, when it's the programmers who are mooching off all the free suggestions, help and information that is floating around here. They get free testing, free suggestions, free code-fixes, free code-fragements, etc.

If you want to continue with your suggestion under the GPL but adapting to Links, then mods should be free for non-commercial use, and pay the license fee for business use the same as with Links 2.0's license.

I really couldn't argue with that, since it integrates the development community with Links 2.0 itself.

At that point, a business would tally up the costs of Links + mods and probably go with SQL as a better deal

Unfortunately, all this really still depends on what Alex thinks, or feels, about people modifying and making money off his code. It's his code, and changes to it have to be made within the terms of his license. He could force anyone who modifys his code to pay the license fee -- and it would be WITHIN HIS RIGHT -- and fully well within the logic you are using about the the programmers deserving payment for their time.

If you make $25 off code adding on to Alex's code, then Alex is entitled to a portion of that money, or the full $150 license fee on Links to use it.

Do you see the problem? When things are free, no problem. When people try to make a buck on someone eles' efforts... big problem.

------------------
Robert S. Pataki, MD
President, PUGDOG Enterprises, Inc.
http://www.postcards.com

I'll keep this short, because I've posted similar in another thread, but it's more relevant here.

I'd prefer to have both commercial and free mods included in this forum so that they 1) might be found be search, and 2) be subjected to scrutiny by those most familiar w/ Links 2 and other mods.

Most of the time, I'd prefer to muddle through the freeware mods because they usually provide a bit of understanding in the process. In addition, the freeware mods come with built-in --and deep-- testing and support. However, there are instances that the freeware mods obviously needed a jump-start --the Expirator is a classic example. I waited nearly a month as it bumped around in here. What did that cost me?

And, what about the flip side? ---I'm more than willing to put money up-front to get a custom mod developed in this forum, and I've seen several such postings. If we're going to exclude one, shouldn't we exclude the other?

Bob

please no more talk about money.. if bobsie were here all the threads would be closed

it's clear that we all have different views.. some of us feel money is needed to pay ourselves back and others think that there is no need.

i think it should be left alone.. if someone charges for a mod.. it's his business to do so and not someone elses to tell him it's wrong in anyway. if they feel the need.. then that's what they need to do..

alot of you know i complain about my email box being overloaded all the time and that is the reason i ended up charging for expired links premium. now i am changing that a bit.. and WILL continue to do so.. (in order to prevent the many people to complain about it).

other mods created from this day will only be charged for "special" requests.. ie: the review mod.. if you want the graph to appear in a different format.. and it takes my time (more than a couple thoughts ).. you shall expect a form of payment..

this hasn't been a problem though.. i have been getting many requests.. and about 2/3 offer me an exceptable sum of money.

anyways.. just stop PLEASE

i said the magic words..

jerry

  I agree with Widgetz on that one.. The scripters can't be expected to make special mod for each and every person.

I like the idea of freeware scripts, payment for add-ons... I hope that all the other programmers take this approach.

I agree on all counts. I am getting to old (and wise I hope) over the years to worry about $$$ and time and who uses my programs and who does not. I do what I do to help others reguardless. If some folks make a quick buck on my accounts well, that's fine by me.

Either way I accomplished what I set out for... to help someone

It all comes around in the end. Everything takes care of itself

Bobsie... Feel free to close this thread. Sorry bout that... I did not expect it to turn into a Links Discussion, but rather to express the positiveness of how this project is working towards

TimRyan


[This message has been edited by timryan (edited August 06, 1999).]

I agree with pugdog.

I think that if programmers are going to charge money for their mods, they should give an adequate proportion to Alex since they are using Alex's scripts. In my opinion, it is unethical to charge money for "products" that are based on a meta-product, such as LINKS.

I don't mind paying programmers for their efforts (if the mod is high quality and worthy). But they should consider that they are using Alex's product, LINKS, as a means for increasing their own profits. That may not be the intention of all programmers, but that is the ultimate result.

Regards,

------------------
Eliot Lee
Founder and Editor
Anthro TECH, L.L.C
http://www.anthrotech.com/
info@anthrotech.com
==========================
Coconino Community College
http://www.coco.cc.az.us/
Web Technology
Coordinator
elee@coco.cc.az.us

The creator of Linux, Linus Torvalds, doesn't get a penny of the money Linux makes. Alex sells Links with huge sums of money. =)

Just mentioned.... nah, Alex you're great and have earned your money!

Eliot, I don't get it;
If I create a superb sound card, should I pay profit to man who invented computers because my sound card needs a computer to work and is useless without a computer?

BTW, I can already see Bobsie writing: "Gentlemen, this ain't a good place to discuss this matter. Please use the General CGI discussion forum." =)

eliot..

first of all.. STOP IT! NO MORE MONEY TALK!

second.. we do give Alex something.. we give him mods for he script.. we give him users! we give him popularity!!! if it wasn't for the large user and large programmer database (couldn't think of the right word.. uh.. large programmer fishpond? ) Links would be nothing.

alex has done a lot of scripting.. but we help him expand and create such a useful program that it will help him generate more out of it..

in another word.. we help alex DEVELOP links

jerry

[This message has been edited by widgetz (edited August 07, 1999).]

Eliot.

Why don't you and pugdog get married since you always agree with each other you would have a blissful life together.

If I should not post that here then to bad.

I am sick and tired of this!!!

If certain people wish to be paid for making Mods then thats with-in their rights. If you don't wish to pay for them then thats with-in your rights.

END OF DISCUSSION!!!!

Bobsie if you see this thread then close it and any other thread relating to payments.

Because it is becoming mundane and boring and stupid.

A suggestion to MOD builders when you post your mod to the resource centre state there whether it is free or not.

------------------
tassie
webmaster@scriptfarm.com
www.scriptfarm.com

Well, yeah.. I am kinda bored with threads concerning paid mods. And tassie, seems that you really can't get along well with Eliot and pugdog eh?

Everyone has their own respected opinion but some just might don't like it. I guess we should remind ourselves we are not kiddos anymore. Settle here. EOD

I am constantly amazed at how people can say, "I know this is really off-topic" but post it anyway. Why?

Anyway, since the originator of this thread has requested it be closed, it shall be done.

Please do not start anymore discussions about the ethics of charging or not charging for mods in this forum. While it may be related, it isn't a mod (unless you get change back for your dollar).

------------------
Bob Connors, Moderator
Links Modification Forum
Moderator Email: moderator@orphanage.com
Personal Email: bobsie@orphanage.com
goodstuff.orphanage.com/

Fair enough...I like the way that widgetz stated his message much better than other people. But I do empathesize with tassie's sentiments.

------------------
Eliot Lee
Founder and Editor
Anthro TECH, L.L.C
http://www.anthrotech.com/
info@anthrotech.com
==========================
Coconino Community College
http://www.coco.cc.az.us/
Web Technology
Coordinator
elee@coco.cc.az.us

I just think that it is ethical to give a portion of the proceeds made from a product that provides someone profits to the original source. Yes, to be honest, I think that in the case of cgi programs, programmers should be given "royalties" from other programmers who make money off their programs.

If I ever become a programming guru and write awesome mods...I guess I am only a decent programmer at this stage of the game we call life, then I will sure give credit in terms of profit sharing with the original source.

I guess what it comes down to is principles and ethics. This is not to say that you are unethical for reaping profits from a sound card that is dependent upon a computer to operate. But if you produce an improved sound card based on someone else's technology and ideas, I would hope that you would do the right thing.

Regards,

------------------
Eliot Lee
Founder and Editor
Anthro TECH, L.L.C
http://www.anthrotech.com/
info@anthrotech.com
==========================
Coconino Community College
http://www.coco.cc.az.us/
Web Technology
Coordinator
elee@coco.cc.az.us

[This message has been edited by Eliot (edited August 07, 1999).]