There have been a few questions regarding the new license system in place for Gossamer Links, specifically regarding the issue of maintaining two Gossamer Links installations - one live installation, and one private installation used only for testing.

We have, and will continue to, permit a "testing" installation to be used for holders of a Gossamer Links license. Over the next couple days, we'll be adding functionality to the License download area (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/licensed/) to allow the input of a "testing path". This functionality will allow you to enter a second, valid admin path for your license with the understanding that this second installation may only be used for testing purposes. This does not mean that you are permitted to run multiple live installations from a single registration number - each live, public installation still requires a distinct registration number. Our objective is to allow you to keep a second installation for your own testing purposes with which you can test upgrades, plugins, new templates, etc. before making the same changes to your live installation.

Regarding admin path resetting functionality that many have observed in the licensed download area, we haven't yet enabled limits on the number of resets that are permitted, but we do intend to in the near future. We have not yet decided upon a limit for the number of resets that will be permitted - but of course we will have the ability to reallocate more on a case-by-case basis. We realise that there are legitimate reasons for an admin path changing - such as moving an installation on a server, or from one server to another - and do not want to make it prohibitively difficult to do so.

Though unfortunate, as mentioned in our 3.0.0 announcement post, these measures have proven themselves necessary due to abuse of our license policy.

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Gossamer Threads Development Team

I personally own 3 unlimited licenses to GLinks and have bought many more for clients. However I did not know that the application phoning home would become a requirement. This was not disclosed prior to purchase. I never violate licenses (even wrote for permission to have a test install) but am underwhelmed enough with the prospect of needing Gossamer to both be in business and have access of any sort to my server in order to use GLinks.

Because of this I am considering not using 3.0 altogether and abandoning the GLinks development platform. For the purposes of making a more informed decision, can you please update your online demo.

cdkrg

Able2Know :: Ajooja Directory

Hi,


Unfortuantly, even though you may personally conform to the license requirements, a LOT of people don't, thus why this new system has had to be brought in. I'm afraid to say we've also suffered the same problem, with mis-use and illegal copies of our plugins. Its a bit of a sad state of affairs

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk

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From remote server owner's perspective i feel following is yet to be taken care of:

Maturity of the update system. Currently it has been pretty much unstable.
Security Breach -- Accidental or Otherwise.

Yes the access for verification of License Key (cpanel does it with a special port opened only for that purpose) is fine. But if this Update system does more of probing than this, then it could/would/should raise many eyebrows in future too.

Thanks
HyTC
==================================
Mail Me If Contacting Privately Is That Necessary.
==================================

Hi,

We actually did update the demo over the weekend.

user side:
http://demo.gossamer-threads.com/linkssql/

admin side:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/perl/links-sql2/admin/admin.cgi

It's not a requirement. It's only if you want to use the automated update feature. It does not affect the running or operation of an installation. It doesn't check "on startup".

If you'd rather have GT mail you a copy of an update, I'm sure they will keep that manual mechanism available. People behind a firewall might not be able to use the auto-upgrade.


If you are using the auto-update feature, they have access to your server, by definition. BUT you are in control of when and if you use the feature. You can turn "checks off" so it won't even check for upgrades automatically.

I've had windows software that refused to run if it couldn't connect to the key server. One program did not advise me of that before I bought and set it up, and there was holy hell to pay over that. This is not anywhere near that.

An install/auto-upgrade system has to know where to put the files anyway. Passing the download path back to the routines is *far less* information than any of the other automated update systems I'm sure you are using on your laptops or desk machines.

Personally, I'd like GT to catch the theives, and I have no problem with the concept, as long as they are fair and reasonable to their licensed customers. You get far more with their products -- clean, clear code -- than with other company's messy and intentionally obfuscated code. There is no way to put copy protection or blocks on the code itself. The only way to protect their IP is with upgrade checking.

The code runs fine, without timebombs or other problems. IT's only if you want to upgrade, that a check is made of where you are upgrading, and the license validated.

Of course, GT could possibly have taken the M$ route, and allowed you ONE download/upgrade per License key. It would still have served the same purpose, and would probably have caught more people. But it would have made reinstallations, and repairs a lot harder. Most people are running their links on one domain/url/path. Even if they move servers, that rarely changes. Seems logical to allow unlimited repairs to that install, rather than one download per key.

BTW:



They are *not* unlimited licenses. They are perpetual upgrade licenses. You were ALWAYS limited to one installation of the code on a live site, and one installation of the code on a non-public test/upgrade site. You were never allowed to pass on the software, or share it, or otherwise pretend it was GPL. GT has been somewhat lenient over the years with that, and has usually allowed multiple test sites if you asked, and had a reason, such as the live site at one version, and the migration to an update site of the next version.

I think the automated update feature is a LONG OVERDUE enhancement, and if it wants to check where it's putting the files, that's OK with me -- and I'm paranoid.

I don't want someone using my license key, and putting the files somewhere else.


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.

It's your choice, but a silly one, IMHO. Especially because you are a person who "never violate licenses" and now have access to a painless web-based auto-upgrade feature not requiring SSH or telnet access.

What platform would you move to? Anything under PHP is a security disaster waiting to happen. Most other perl links programs have stagnated in development.

None of the programs has a modular, integrated system of input/output on par with GT::etc

I've tried a few others, just to see if I was missing anything. They often install ok, but once you try to alter them, or add to them, their code is no where as clean, and logical as the GT code. A few lines of header code, and you have full access to all the features inside, cleanly and without long blocks of repetitive set up, or assignment code.

GT's template parser, include system, and function system is much superior to almost everything out there (I say almost, since I have not tested everything). Most programs break down on this. Some are brain dead, others are overly complicated. None has been thought through like GT::Template

So if "phoning home" is all it takes to keep the sites updated, apply any security patches (Come to think of it, how many security patches has GT released in the past 5 years???), or new features, and in order to get all that, all I have to do is say "Hi Mom, it's me", it's certainly worth it :)


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.

Thank you.

cdkrg

Able2Know :: Ajooja Directory

In the Gossamer Threads member's area, my licenses are labeled as "Unlimited" under the "Expiry Date" column so your pedantry is best directed at Gossamer Threads as I am using terminology from them.


And I have never done so. What the hell are you going on about now?


Thanks for sharing. Of course, what is fine with you means precious little to those to whom it is decidedly unfine.

cdkrg

Able2Know :: Ajooja Directory

I had a look at the demo, would the GT Dev Team agree that it's fair to say that aside from new license restrictions there's little new in this release?

i.e., what novelty should business owners weigh when they consider the pros and cons of upgrading.

I know of:

Bookmarks (which I don't care about)
New Template (which I don't care about, I would make my own)
Removing some small HTML generation bits from code over to templates (which is a principle (logic and presentation separation) I care deeply about but in practice it was not a big deal here as Gossamer has always had a great templating system)

Other than that what is there?

Aside: What would be really interesting is if Gossamer would make modular user authentication. If it were easy to integrate Gossamer products into other sites with existing user databases it would be useful on many more websites.

cdkrg

Able2Know :: Ajooja Directory

Hi,

If you are interested in modular authentication, we can handle it as custom jobs, built along the same lines as the Auth_VBulletin plugin for example, or the Auth_Community plugin. If you'd like to explore the possibilities, please email Jack directly.

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Gossamer Threads Development Team

Does the auth community plugin already allow for customizable authentication? I personally might be willing to pay for a custom phpbb plugin but what I had had in mind was much more flexible than that.

cdkrg

Able2Know :: Ajooja Directory

Very true it says that because I personally believe GT has more ethics than many other businesses. The term unlimited next to your licence means that, this particual licence receives *unlimited updates*, And it does not mean, anyone can install/use the software at unlimited places.

Again I am more than 100% sure that when you will try to understand the reasons why GT is working on security issue with the license, you might turn out to be the biggest supporter of it. I am sure that none of us wants GT to go out of business or suffer lot of loss in business. GT has awasome products and just think about it, if everyone uses illegal copy of their software, how can GT stay in business. More like if you were selling a software to end users, would you let them use it at unlimited places for the cost of 1 license?

just my 2 cents.

Vishal

Vishal
-------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

The code is customisable, sure, to a point, after which it should be rewritten.

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Gossamer Threads Development Team

Nowhere did I claim otherwise, that was pugdog's misunderstanding.


I do understand GT's motivations, the question is whether their needs will supercede mine and subsequently whether they are a company that I'll continue to do business with.

cdkrg

Able2Know :: Ajooja Directory

Would you *PLEASE* stop it and get off your horse. At this point, if you have further problems with this, maybe take it up with/in email with GT directly.

Your gripes have been noted, and I let your comments pass several times, but, for the record, *I* did *NOT* mis understand anything, I was making a point. You used the term "unlimited" in a manner that was *NOT* the intent of the license. The only "unlimited" rights you were granted were to updates, each of which may have further restrictions. You also had unlimited rights to continue using the program, without upgrade, for as long as you wanted. So, basically, you, the original license holder or legitimately transferred owner, are/were entitled to unlimited upgrades -- if you wanted them. Not free, unrestricted, or duplicate use of the program code. The terms of the license had to be adhered to. The plugin system has *always* checked for a valid code. It's reasonable for the download system to check for a valid download path.

You are upset for some reason, and that is fine. You've expressed it, but others have the right to express their disagreement with you, your feelings, and your manner of expression. If you did not want open comments on your flame, you should have posted it privately.

As noted, your gripes have been noted. GT has addressed this -- several times, and just posted a major clarification, which basically said what everyone with a clear head expected it to.

I, personally, feel you are totally off base, and that your comments that this system would cause you stop using GT products are just that, YOUR COMMENTS. *I* and a whole lot of others feel very differently (and I'm considered paranoid), and I posted not only my feeling to that end, but a few notes as to WHY I feel it would be wrong or silly, or in your case, down right stupid, to switch from GT products to some other platform. But I also noted, it was your choice. If you are not violating the license, then this change will only make your life easier, not harder. People reading this thread in "pre sales" have a right to hear EVERY opinion on the product, not just yours.

So please, I *HATE* when someone takes swipes at me in the 3rd person. You want to criticize or comment on something I said, do it TO ME directly. Don't mis-represent what I said, or claim I intended to say, to a third party. Don't assume I didn't understand something, until you ask me.

I understand perfectly, (GT's clarification post proved it) and I'll stop there.



And, pray tell, how does validing the install path "supercede" your needs? Especially in a way that would prevent you from dealing with GT because of it?


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.

There are a *lot* of changes under the hood, and they were spelled out clearly in the release announcements.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/...orum.cgi?post=280077

In short, besides code cleanup, and improvements, the update system you don't like is a major improvement for most people. They no longer need telnet access or to know how to use advanced Unix commands to do upgrades. Several small common plugins have been integrated into the system, and are configured from the main admin config pages, etc. Also a host of minor bug fixes, as well as a much improved template parser and additional tags that move virtually all html from inside cgi or complex globals into the HTML itself.

So, there is a lot new in version 3.0, besides just a pretty face and some paint.

You can read about it all in the link above.


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.

I'm locking this thread now. Clairifications on the update system have been posted here:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/...orum.cgi?post=280458

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Cheers,

Alex
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Gossamer Threads Inc.