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Klulyss

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Klulyss
Can you give us [/me] so web design tips? Mine really suck and I am really envious. In particular:

- How do you make the logos so good
- How to make impressive navigation and buttons easily
- Any other tips

thx
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Re: [guano] Klulyss In reply to
My only tip which has taken me years to learn is that if you're not a graphic designer then you're not a graphic designer. I am a programmer and developer, and I've been trying for years to create web sites and/or implement front ends for my applications. And at the end of the day all my effors were OK, but nothing really hit the mark.

Just hire out a design agency to come up with your designs. Pay the fee and you will be happy with the results (hopefuly) and you will have saved yourself time, effort, hair-pulling, and everything else associated with designing anything be it a website, print material, bill boards etc.

However if you're determined to do it yourself. Read everything regarding accessability issues, design for speed/usability and more at the following web site:

http://www.w3.org/

Alternatively, go to University and obtain a degree in web design, graphic design, new age multimedia design and more. There is too high a percentage of web sites on the web already that are simply, awful.

Good luck.

- wil

Last edited by:

Wil: Dec 14, 2001, 4:54 AM
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Re: [Wil] Klulyss In reply to
totally agree with Wil ... it's basically a talent that you have or don't ...

I don't but with lot's of changes and lot's of brainstorming (hehe ... surfing for sites I like). You might just pull a few designs out of no-where.

my first few pages I made almost made me puke.

Although, I have to admit ... having a few design friends is really nice too!

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
Post deleted by guano In reply to
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Re: [QooQ] Klulyss In reply to
We use Fireworks by Macromedia and it will create some impressive graphics at very low overhead (file size). Of course, like the others said, if your design skills bite, then you have a nice clean, small, but ugly logo. Trust me I know (been there).

What I do is I "cheat". There are some really nice template sites that have pre-made websites for free and some that charge a fee for nicer templates. Also recommend getting the book "x? webpages that suck". I believe they have a website as well. It gives you some good pointers as well.

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Re: [QooQ] Klulyss In reply to
Quote:
it's basically a talent that you have or don't ...

And I dont Tongue

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
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Last edited by:

AndyNewby: Dec 14, 2001, 8:19 AM
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Re: [Watts] Klulyss In reply to
Gotta agree with you there Watts. I can produce nice, clean looking sites that are very useable, but when it comes to logo or corporate identiy, I'm finished. Ugh.

- wil
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Re: [Watts] Klulyss In reply to
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me
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Re: [Heckler] Klulyss In reply to
Lol...that is a classic site. Maybe he should put his on there to, cos that design is yukky!

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
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Re: [Heckler] Klulyss In reply to
http://www.coolhomepages.com

is good if you're need of some inspiration.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Klulyss In reply to
Yes, I visit that site often....

BTW: The "commandments of web design" basically re-iterate usability principles.

My philosophy, which is backed up by usability research and testing, is that content is KEY. Bells and whistles are nice, but if you don't have substantive content in your web site, then you will most likely see a drop in your web traffic in terms of return visits.

Yes, there are different ways of displaying "content", but if you have a web site that is jazzy yet inaccessible and unusable, then you've just wasted a lot of money and time in designing your site.
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me
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Re: [Heckler] Klulyss In reply to
Yes, I agree. But it does also depend on the target audience of your web site. Also an important link is the relationshiip between content and accessibility/usability. You could have the best content in the world, but if no one can access it or use it in an useful way, then it, useless.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Klulyss In reply to
True...I am not discounting jazzy designs, but the fact of the matter is that I've seen very few graphic designers make web sites accessible. Their expertise is in making sites look "pretty".

Case in point, at one of my jobs, we relied on the "mother" web unit in the organization to come up the design elements of our web site. Yes, it looked nice, however, it took me three hours to make it accessible (the design failed miserably through BOBBY, even lacked obvious alt tags for major images in the site, and in addition, the site failed miserably through W3's HTML Validator, took me another few hours to make it compliant).

Therefore, while making sites jazzy is good, if you don't know anything about making it accessible, then it's wasted effort.

SOLUTION: Web developers and web designers should cross-train in order to learn each other's skill sets...which I have done and continue to do.
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me
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Re: [Heckler] Klulyss In reply to
Yes, agreed. The way it works best wtih me at the moment is that I get our designers to design a flat image. I give them a white image, say the size of a monitor 800x600 or whatever and they draw up a flat JPEG for me. I then go and cut up their ideas and develop this into a website. It's the berst solution I've found so far.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Klulyss In reply to
Yep, that's what I do too. But then again, I'm both the "make it pretty" person and the one who cuts it up and actually makes the website work. Smile But your idea is usually what works best...!
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Re: [guano] Klulyss In reply to
Hi guano,

Seems like everybody can be a web designer these days! It's really not that hard to wip up something generic, but when it comes to being a little more creative and making things looks clean and professional, it does depend highly on not only your creative abilities but on knowledge of your graphics programs. But graphics design can be learnt! You don't always have to have a knack for it, but of course it really helps if you do.

Some people have suggested Macromedia Fireworks, Paint Shop Pro, and Photoshop. I use Photoshop, Image Ready and Illustrator. But Macromedia really does all 3 programs in one for the web. One of the biggest things is to know how to replicate things that you see on the net that you like and alter them to fit what you have in mind. So knowing the programs well really helps when being creative.

Some of my rules I follow, keep things simple, don't use more than 3 fonts on your page, no more than 6 colours (and in the same general tone), don't use blinks and horns to attract people, remember to have white space, use sans serif fonts for titles since they are easier to read, make buttons only when necessary, and keep them a small size (don't get too fancy with their shapes either), Put text into sections like you would when writing a report, and think user navigation instead of always just what looks "cool" or "pretty". Think logically, and create graphics as a means to communicate something, not for the sake of having it there for no reason whatsoever.

And probably the most important one is "look at a lot of sites and try to replicate and add to them!" Believe it or not, nothing is original on the web... everything is copied from one place or another (I'm talking about ideas of course). It's just that they are altered in different ways, incorporated and such, to make different designs. Just don't go copying and pasting code and graphics (copyrights do exist!).

There's plenty of design how-to sites on the net. So do a search on google, I'm sure you'll be able to find plenty of resources!

Good luck and hope that kind of helps! Smile

-Vanessa


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Re: [Klulyss] Klulyss In reply to
I hate to say it but I've seen some pretty good designs done with Frontpage Pirate
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Re: [Klulyss] Klulyss In reply to
Hi Vanessa,

Very modest of you. I think what you say is certainly true. Any neanderthal can create lame html table tricks, but the bold, expressive, inspired designs take an extra level of ability. I could train to be a painter, but my paintings would always be awful because I'm not that way inclined. Some perhaps have that innate flair.
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Re: [guano] Klulyss In reply to
Another point is that some who can't design but can do layout / program / etc ... I'm pretty horrible at design but layout is pretty simple ... it's like smashing 3-4 suitcases into the trunk of car ... some people can get them in and some can't.

Everybody has some kine of skill .... you just have to find what you're good at!

Laugh

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [guano] Klulyss In reply to
Sorry for being off-topic but does your username mean what I think it does?
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Re: [Klulyss] Klulyss In reply to
For well-sighted people, I suppose...the GT web site is missing many Priority One Accessibility elements, including basic alternative text attributes. Wink
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me