How many would be interested in having a centralized domain/IP block list?

I have seen these "black list" sites before and they do not address the problem correctly (in my opinion).

Any ideas?

Nice idea, but I think the list would have to be categorized, as there are some groups that one set of webmaster might want to block, while others don't.

Also, you could put a explaination for being on the list with each ip, which would allow you to see why they are in there.

I would have maybe:

IP, Domain Name, Reason, Date Added, ...


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Interesting idea.

Although, what don't you think works well with the blacklist sites? Like what doesn't work with spamcop.net or others? How can their process be improved?

I know that sites like spamcop.net do work.

I guess more details on your perspective would be helpful.
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Oh, they work. But they also black list sites that are not spammers "all the time".

The list could be based upon spammers that use their own system (domains) and spammers that use others.

As well a third list could be generated for sites that "don't take no for an answer" (sites that you request to opt out and they never opt you out. Or sites that request you call a toll free phone number (so they can add your phone number to another list) or sites that have "stupid" opt out clauses such as:

Send a reply email to: (some extra long address that gets cut up by every email system in the world not allowing you to actually get the whole address) or BAD RETURNS Bob@msn.com (I love those).

Here's one to start off the list

http://gossamer-threads.com/...rum.cgi?post=193159;

Sorry couldn't resist

Okay, back to the original discussion...you've made some good points, which I think Ian also alluded to, which is better organization of the blacklists, correct?
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

>>
Okay, back to the original discussion
<<

My post was very much on topic I think but then as a guilty party I'd expect you to avoid the subject :)

I find your participation in this thread ironic.

Are you asking because you are thinking of doing something like this or was this a general question?

Organization and availability would be big ones.

Per se an ISP wanted the list, they should be able to download it and install it in their domain blocking section of their email server.

Maybe an automated update like Norton? OoooOOOoo....that sounds nice!

And of course anybody that enters a domain in for blocking must make a case prior to it being added. This is where the tricky part is. Because the people behind the spamming domains will be forever trying to get themselves off the list. And if the site grew very large then it may also head down the legal trail as well.

So the domain listed by a person to be blocked should have to prove the case and the proving should be associated with the blocked domain and the domian liter as well as the domain that is blocked itself. (column and table thoughts..hehehe).

I have actually thought about this. But of course since it is a non-profit venture it got the back burner.

I do see with my prior post a thought of an automated update system such as what Norton uses as making this a potential pay system. But ti get it launched and for quite awhile to come it would have to be free to gain momentum.

So the answer would actually be "both"!

I think spamcop allows for someone to plea their case. This should also.

Auto downloads...hmmm. I guess a cgi script of sorts.


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But to take the legal side off the list you need to place it back on the lister. So they need to sign off on their claims before an addition could happen.

Then if the listed party wants off the list, they could be given all the info relative to the listing and they would contact the listing party to have it removed by the listing party. Now if the listing party does not respond to it within X days then the listing should "auto-drop" from the system.

So the listed party would contact the lister through the site which in turn "starts the clock" and the listing party responds back through the site which turns the clock off. Etc...

I wonder how the BBB gets away with basically doing the same thing?


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They take a complaint from a consumer and send it to the business. They give the business a chance to respond to the consumer and take care of it. If it is not taken care of then the business will have a negative listing. If they take care of it then the business still has a listing but showing resolved.

Would you really want to attempt something like this?.....to keep a list of spammers and deal with all the legal issues and complaints and filtering the fakes and hoaxes yada yada...just seems like too much effort. Maybe I'm just lazy.

I'm sure a robust system would be needed, not just a flat file and a cgi script

Well I think that it can be based on Links SQL!

And I think that if thought out well it can be done with complete automation.

Automation could equal trouble. Infact I don't think it is possible. Wouldn't you need to verify all submissions manually?

Not if the party listing has been verified and signs off on it taking legal responsibility!

lol

I believe that the emphasis should be on the registered party. Confirmation to the highest level possible and not on the listed site.

Simply because it offers more than one angle in legal protection, makes the DB owner deal with the minority rather than the majority (spammer domains).

I would get a lawer for the disclaimers and submission statments I think.

But I also see the merit in the idea. I would use a site which shared blacklist info for sure.... gosh, even if it had to be an "underground" list, so long as it did offer a fair way for someone on the list to plea their case, and be removed just as quickly as they went on.

Tough one.


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Speaking of spam, I just got this one in right now:

---

URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL To The President/ Managing Director Dear Sir, Aslam Alukom We want to transfer to overseas ($28,000.000.00) Twenty eight million United State Dollar from a DEVELOPMENT BANK FOR SOUTHERN AFRICA [DBSA].I want to ask you to quietly look for a reliable and honest person who will be capable and fit to provide either an existing bank account or to set up a new Bank a/c immediately to receive this money, even an empty a/c can serve to receive this money, as long as you will remain honest to me till the end of this important business trusting in you and believing in Allah that you will never let me down either now or in future. I am Ali Ahmed. The Auditor General of DEVELOPMENT BANK FOR SOUTHERN AFRICA , during the course of our auditing I discovered a floating fund in an account opened in the Bank in 1990 nobody has operated on this account again, after going through some old flies in the records I discovered that the owner of the account died without a (heir) hence the money is floating and if I do not remit this money out urgently it will be forfeited for nothing, the owner of this account is Mr. Allan P. Seaman, a foreigner,and an industrialist, and he died, since 1993, and no other person knows about this account or anything concerning it, the account has no other beneficiary and my investigation proved to me as well that Allan P. Seaman until his death was the Manager diamond Safari (pty). SA. We will start the first transfer with fifteen million Dollars ($10million) upon successful transaction without any disappointment from your side, we shall re-apply for the payment of the remaining rest amount to your account. The amount involved is (USD28M)Twenty eight million United State Dollars only I want to first transfer$10,000.000.00 (Ten million United States Dollar from this money into a safe foreigner account abroad before the rest, but I don’t know any foreigner, I am only contacting you as a foreigner because this money can not be approved to a local person here, without valid international passport, but can only be approved to any foreigner with valid international passport or drivers license and foreign a/c because the money is in US DOLLARS and the former owner of the a/c Mr. Allan P. Seaman I a foreigner too and the money can only be approved into a foreign a/c). However, we will sign a binding agreement, to bind us together. I got your contact through some discreet inquiry from the chamber of commerce and industry, I am revealing this to you with belief in Allah that you will never let me down in this business, you are first and only person that I am contacting for this business, so please reply urgently so that I will inform you the next step to take urgently. Send also your private telephone number and fax number including the full detail of the account to be used for the deposit. I want us to meet face to face to build confidence and to sign a binding agreement that will bins us together before transferring the money to any account of your choice where the fund will be safe. Before we fly to your country for withdrawal, sharing and investment. I need your full co-operation to make this work fine. Because the management is ready to approved this payment to any foreigner who has correct information of this account, which I will give to you, upon your positive response and once I am convinced that you are capable and I will meet up with instruction of a key bank official who is deeply involved with me in this business. I need your strong assurance that you that you will never let me down. With my influence and the position of the bank official this money to any foreigner reliable account which you can provide with assurance that this money will be intact pending our physical arrival in your country for sharing. The bank official will destroy all document of transaction immediately we received this money leaving no trace to any place and to build confidence you can come immediately to discuss with me face to face after which I will make this remittance in your presence andthree of us will fly to your country at least two days ahead of the money going into the account. I will apply for annual leaves to get visa immediately I hear from you that you are ready to act and receive this fund in your account. I will use my position and influence to obtain all legal approval for onward transfer of this money to your account with appropriate clearance from the relevant ministries and foreign exchange department.At the conclusion of this business, you will be given 30% of the total amount, 9% for charity home, 60% will be for me, while 1% will be forexpenses both parties might have incurred during the process of transferring. I look forward to your earliest reply through my Private email:ahmed253069@maktoob.com Bestwish and Salaam Ali Ahmed



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If the listing party has their finger on the trigger they should also have the virtually exclusive right to remove. Virtually explained below:

A. Listed domain owner tries to contact the lister through the DB site and X number of days have passed without response from the lister. result-auto-delete from list

B. Lister responds within X days but does not accept reason for removal. result-lister-cannot list until resolved and listed domain stays on the list. Both parties are allowed X amount of time to correct the standoff and if not then an outside party could assist such as a grevence board, etc...

C. Lister responds within X days and agrees to pull listing of domain. But in the meanwhile other listers list the same domain. result-original listing is removed and process starts for each subsequent listings. Process continues till all listers have been satisfied, not responded within X days or an outside party has addressed the issue.

This is kinda turning into a Links SQL discussion perhaps even a plug-in development idea.


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Have you ever seen this?

http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html