Why is it that I spend up to 30 minutes a day dealing with error messages for "bad returns" due to spammers sending in emails to non-existent email addresses on my domains?

Why is it that an email can be sent from an address that does not exist to an address that does not exist?

Why can't email programs verify the sending address to be LIVE prior to sending it? This would be too easy of a way to reduce spam and control bad returns.

Oh well, just venting as I had 41 of them this morning. And since I have my email server locked down tight I have to handle each one separately.

I know exactly how you feel.

Spamcop (there is also a windows version) is a nice program... I am not sure it would deal with this though.

I find when I do a newsletter mail out, I get bombarded by all the people who signed up with an address they no longer use, or blocked, or autoresponded etc. 30-40% come back with a message to irratate me.


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Actually I think that spamming could be regulated if the email client checked to make sure that the FROM and REPLY TO were LIVE and totally functional email addresses prior to sending an email out.

If the addresses were live then blockers wotld be effective. If they are not live as is the case now, blockers mean very little.

I think that all email client software manufacturers need to be on the same page when it comes to spam control and not force the end recipient to create an industry just to block bad returns.

Just a thought.... (Gmail guys, are you listening? Be the ball!)

Imagine, the internet without spam....


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Imagine your mailbox outside your home without "Current Resident" mail! But at least theirs is biodegradable! LOL

It seems that if you can ping an ip in a matter of seconds, then there should be someway for an email "handshake". Of course it'd really increase the amount of traffic flowing through the pipes, but then perhaps would eventually reduce the volume due to fewer bounces, etc.

Of course spammers would just figure out a way around it.

While I do respect Tim Berners Lee (the father of the Web - HTML) and his vision of what the Internet could offer in terms of free enterprise, I think that it's gotten WAY out of hand.
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Here is a little math:

1 bad return cause an average of 5 emails on my system (normally I do not get to them right away).

So if we use say 3 as a national average and 30 per day per domain that is 90 per day per domain.

If a handshake was done it would cut this by at least a third if not 2 thirds.

So a reduction of 30 to 60 emails per day per domain globally just because the email client verifies that the email being sent is from a real email account and that the reply to is a real email account if different from the sent from.

And all it takes is a handshake!

Check for a live address before it sends?

Translation: The holy grail for spammers!

If they know they've got a live address at the end of it, expect to get 10, no make that 100 times more spam mail per day!! That is their ultimate goal - to actually reach existing and active mail boxes.

- wil

No Wil, the other way around.

The client verifies the spammers addresses prior to allowing the spammer the ability to send anything. Not a verification of the TO addresses. Only the FROM and REPLY TO.

Beyond checking for valid email addresses, it'd be nice if the mail server could decipher if the email headers are forged or not (yea, some server apps like procmail can sort of do this), and then chuck the email back at the sender if the email header is not an approved structure based on specs of whatever mail server you are using without the involvement of the client at all. Just specify and customize your own filters on the server (even for virtual accounts) and not bother with messing around with your client...

Now that would be cool...yea, some ISPs have this available, like mine, that has a web-based repository type of program that will save mail in a "trash bin" outside of your client and then you can either forward as "legit" mail or delete it. But this type of technology still doesn't really stop SPAMMING, since the sender could continue to send mail and you have delete more mail from your "virtual trash bin".
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Yes, I agree.

One thing that really cooks my noodle is when an email comes to me addressed from me to me. They cloak my email address in on the "from" and the "to" sides. Of course the "reply to" is theirs or it is junk and the real link is in the email body itself.

I just think that we are much smarter than a bunch of junk mail coupon kings out there blanket emailing to addresses that do not even exist. Seems like a no brainer that we can outsmart them before a chance is even given!

Do you all find that a majority of all returned emails on your mailing lists are from AOL, Yahoo and Hotmail?



Geee, go figure huh! LOL

Yes, but you have to figure that is the nature of the beast. Freemail accounts will always have high return rates, and AOL - well it's AOL.

Or how about SPAMMERS using your email address to send mass mailings filled with virus-ridden attachments...some SPAMMER in the UK is continually sending mail with virus files attached to it and the message bounces back to me...double whammy if you ask me.
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Cheers,
Me

Yep...many SPAMMERS seem to forge email headers with data from those free email providers.

I have to commend some ISPs like CyberTrails that have a large technical support staff and address SPAM issues on an individual basis. I reported two SPAMMERS to them and I got responses about both SPAM incidents within minutes and one of the accounts they terminated automatically and the other they couldn't find and notified me that the HEADER was, indeed, forged.
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Cheers,
Me

And the funny part about that is that courts use headers as evidence in lawsuits!

Yep...not really foul-proof in my opinion. Beyond headers though, if a "valid" IP address is tracked in the Message ID from the mail server then that can be tracked through the ISP of the SPAMMER, but headers alone are useless, IMO. However, SPAMMERS can still spoof email headers and bypass their mail servers or use relay servers to send out messages.

BTW: At my current job, we do email advertising, but it's done through an opt-in/opt-out process and we don't accept any lists that have been "harvested" by clients. One of my responsibilities is monitoring the opt-in/opt-out process to make sure that accounts are indeed deleted from future mailings and that we keep current records of all "bounces" and "removes"...tedious to say the least...

Just wanted to state for the record that while I empathezie with the SPAM problems that infect the Internet, I believe that there is a place for email marketing and advertising, if it's done in an ethical manner and respects Internet/Email laws.
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Me

*achoo*

As long as your mail server is set up semi-properly you shouldn't have many spam problems. I have about 15 email addresses, some web accessible and some not and probably receive less that one spam email every 3-4 days.

The reason I get those is when they bounce and I get an email to root warning me.

You need to encrypt or cloak email addresses in web pages or remove them completely and use contact forms, although that sill doesn't stop some spammers

I've no idea!

Paul,

Thanks for advice, however, I don't have my email address listed anywhere in ANY of my web sites (unlike you, so why are giving that advice?? huh?).

The thing that you may not realize is that SPAMMERS go out and collect legitimate domains and then attach "common" email accounts to them like "info","support","webmaster", etc.

I do have my POP3 and other send mail settings to only allow transmission of messages to and from "valid" accounts. And I use procmail among other tools to reduce SPAM.

The problem is PAUL, is that I am unwilling to change an easy to remember and access email account like "info". I should NOT have to do that.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

>>
Thanks for advice, however, I don't have my email address listed anywhere in ANY of my web sites (unlike you, so why are giving that advice?? huh?).
<<

I was speaking in general and not to you specifically.

As one needs to post a reply by clicking "reply" then I clicked the "reply" link next to your post as it was the last one in the thread.

>>
Thanks for advice, however, I don't have my email address listed anywhere in ANY of my web sites (unlike you, so why are giving that advice?? huh?).
<<

Oh could you tell me the URL where you found addresses as they probably shouldn't be there so I guess I should remove them....much appreciated.

Under your Contact Information...(www.wiredon.net)

Via Email
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Yeah but look at the source :)

Decent attempt, but I know sniffer and hacker programs that will decipher ASCII characters and intelligently pull emails from web pages even those that have "encrypted" the email addresses.

And still doesn't stop someone from taking your domain and assigning common and even random accounts to the email domain address, and find one that works in your mail server.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me