OK. I think you've got your point across in a clearer way this time. I think I'm starting to get what you're saying.

I suppose this is where my opinion personally differs from yours. I've been looking now for ages for a decent e-commerce product that is fully-template-based, but yet I can't find one. The thing with GT's products, IMO, is that you pay for the power, precision and excellent behind the software, and that you're expected to integrate and to customize these products into your site. That is my understanding, and that is the exact reason why I like GT's products - they don't try and stuff me with an out-of-the-box system that I'm stuck with, but rather provide me with the software to plug into my templates, easier.

The original Links assumed a level of working Perl knowledge, and their products have become more out-of-the-box~ since then. In fact, GTForum's installer system is fantastic for people with absolutely no knowledge of Perl, which is a concept developed by GT later on in their products lifecycles.

I guess at the end of the day that I really do not care what the templates look like, even if they were actually ugly-looking - I personally feel that the GForum layout is excellent in that it gives clear, simple navigation and is very user-friendly. It is also very branded towards the Gossamer website which makes it clear what product you are using - if you chose the out-the-box solution again. I guess that an easily-customizable templates based system wins every time for me over a different system with an initial nice looking interface - and that's where GT truly excels.

- wil