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Feature request

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Feature request
I'd like to see GForum have everything this board has: http://www.webhostingtalk.com

Jason
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
Seems like GT Forums already does...May be stating missing features and requesting them would be better...
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
wht.com runs on vB ;)

which so far ... has polls, a calander, and stickies that GForum doesn't have yet.

Somebody here was working on a poll script ....

wonder what ability the community plugin will bring? .... Alex posted up in the main disscussions that he'll post soon more about that though.

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [Heckler] Feature request In reply to
In Reply To:
Seems like GT Forums already does...

Nope, not in the slighest.

In Reply To:
May be stating missing features and requesting them would be better...

If I could be bothered, maybe. Suffice to say that's a great little board, not just feature wise, but very slick presentation. It's still my request that GT get in a professional template designer.

Jason
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
Ouch!

- wil
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
>>It's still my request that GT get in a professional template designer.<<

What constitutes as "professional" ?

.....I beleive they have someone already who works on templates and design work, its not like their programmers take a quick break from programming to knock something up.
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
Well, your posts are highly ambiguous. Hope you don't expect any changes from GT, because if you do, you are dreaming!

I simply suggested that you list and describe the features that aren't in GT Forum (because many of them are in the Web Hosting Board you linked).

And I agree with Paul, I think you are a bit rough on GT and their staff...How do you define "professional"?
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me
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Re: [Heckler] Feature request In reply to
Maybe, but that was my blunt opinion as a designer myself. I've never been a fan of the templates, though the latest GMail ones were a great improvement. If you look at the old ones and you still don't see "room for improvement" (to put it nicely) then I just think some people don't perceive "style", or their loyalties are so strong that they are unable to process constructive criticism.

Nothing against programmers, but it's been my experience they aren't exactly the greatest artists and designers in the world. Looking at some of the template sets it *does* look like they've just been knocked up when the programmers had 5 minutes.

In a word the webhostingtalk board is just slick. GForum is a fair way behind, in my opinion. The "feature request" wasn't so much a point by point blow of what needs doing, more a point in the right direction as I see it, written as a "look how great this is".

Jason
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
Jason

I think you've got your lines crossed somewhere.

Let's look at the very first page of the Gossamer Threads website. To save you jumping out of this thread, here's an extract:

Gossamer Threads has been building web applications since 1995, and our programs are consistently rated the best in their class. With support from a dedicated user community, we've managed to expand our product base, allowing you to provide a truly integrated experience to your visitor.

Now, as far as my understanding goes; Gossamer Threads creates powerful web programs that intergrate with your website. In simpler terms; Gossamer Threads provides the programs, the power, the backend, but doesn't offer to redo your website for you. The whole idea of a template-based system is that you intergrate it with your website design. You can't expect GT to provide google amount of templates to suit everyone's taste now, do you?

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
And just to throw the cat in amongst the pigeons ...

The WebHostingTalk forums are designed precisely against my ideas, beliefs, and understanding of a good website - I would go there for talk about web hosting as the title suggests, presumably. Now why would the information I am visiting the site for be kept away from me by beginning 'after the fold'. Oops?!

- wil
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally I think the default GForum templates are nice, clearly you don't, but there's always going to be someone who doesn't like them as everyones tastes are different. It would be impossible for GT to come up with a set of templates that everyone thought were perfect so thats why all products are template based and use globals so every license holder can customize their copy just the way they want it. Generally people don't want to use the default design anyway.

wht uses a fairly standard version of vbulletin and I personally find calendars a waste of time and thats pretty much all it has over GForum except the php pre-conception.

Last edited by:

Paul: Mar 19, 2002, 8:08 AM
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
Yes, I'd criticise their huge sponsor ad as well, but you're scrambling the points being made. Look at the features, implementation, design and layout of the rest, basically everything but the one point, a banner ad, you've got caught up on. It's excellent right down to the quality of the icons. It's no good bashing one piece of software against the next, that doesn't interest me, like fights over PCs and Macs, Linux and NT. Where your loyalty lies is irrelevant to the points being made, and not a good thing either if they interfere with a genuine point at the expense of improving the software. I'm looking for great design, even a little flair, and I don't see if in GForum currently. Great software yes, I use GMail and GForum myself, but having worked in the games industry, editorial illustration and site design for many years, I think I can spot a great site over a not so great site if I see one, even if it is just my opinion.

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Gossamer Threads provides the programs, the power, the backend, but doesn't offer to redo your website for you. The whole idea of a template-based system is that you intergrate it with your website design. You can't expect GT to provide google amount of templates to suit everyone's taste now, do you?

Having already buttoned down the backend system, if you could pay a great designer a few hundred dollars to create a fantastic, eye catching design, that would inevitably *improve* sales (I cannot help but think here of the templates that used to bundle with GMail), would you do it? It seems to me you're more hung up on the idea that I even dared criticise the templates, than what the benefits of a makeover could do for the templates and therefore GT as a company. You see, I'm not *criticising GT*, just those damn templates. They're not good enough! Arguments like "you can't expect" strike my as myopic, baseless and at worse damaging for the company. You can either do yourself favours or not, or maybe not even recognise an area to be improved when you see one, which seems to be your argument.

Googles of fantastic templates? One would be enough.

Jason
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
OK. I think you've got your point across in a clearer way this time. I think I'm starting to get what you're saying.

I suppose this is where my opinion personally differs from yours. I've been looking now for ages for a decent e-commerce product that is fully-template-based, but yet I can't find one. The thing with GT's products, IMO, is that you pay for the power, precision and excellent behind the software, and that you're expected to integrate and to customize these products into your site. That is my understanding, and that is the exact reason why I like GT's products - they don't try and stuff me with an out-of-the-box system that I'm stuck with, but rather provide me with the software to plug into my templates, easier.

The original Links assumed a level of working Perl knowledge, and their products have become more out-of-the-box~ since then. In fact, GTForum's installer system is fantastic for people with absolutely no knowledge of Perl, which is a concept developed by GT later on in their products lifecycles.

I guess at the end of the day that I really do not care what the templates look like, even if they were actually ugly-looking - I personally feel that the GForum layout is excellent in that it gives clear, simple navigation and is very user-friendly. It is also very branded towards the Gossamer website which makes it clear what product you are using - if you chose the out-the-box solution again. I guess that an easily-customizable templates based system wins every time for me over a different system with an initial nice looking interface - and that's where GT truly excels.

- wil
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
I just wanted to add that I'm a designer myself and I appreciated that the forum script was very simple template wise because it allowed me to customize it rather extensively-- I hate buying scripts where the author has integrated their own design choices and it takes forever to take out their design to put in my own. This script is formatted enough that it makes sense and you could use it without customizing, but not so much that it would be a pain in the ass to put in your own ideas.

The link you offered was nice looking, but it wouldn't fit with my site at all, so I think if Gossamer released the forum looking like that I would have hated it.

They could do a few things like calling the color globals color1, color2 etc not light_beige and dark_green, but overall I think they've found a nice balance between design and function.


Realiiity.com Forums
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Re: Feature request In reply to
one more time. webhostingtalk.com commonly reffered to as wht.com is run on vB

- functionality lacking or apparently lacking in gforum compared to vB is basically: stickies/calendar/polls

- the other functions like latest members/who posted what and what not are still hidden and not really implemented in this current set of gforum templates can be found going to the admin/tools/source(or stats) .... you'll notice almost all of the same goodies that vB has

- templates - you can always redo them for what ever design you want them to be. (phpBB 1.x.x generation was horrible to fiddle with.) Although I gotta admit gforum templates aren't something you can just slap around a bit and create a completely new look within a day. But they are amazing to look at!

- template design .... phpBB2 is designed for free by a British guy, vB I don't know, gforum's are very gossamer-threads.com based. They do fit very nicely in GT's site. Agreed, that they could be a bit flashier, more Dragon Ball like and folks have choosen vB over gforum due to this. (I can actually name 3-4 folks off-hand) BUT, gforum is still new to the market and unlike GMail or even LinksSQL. Look at LinksSQL it now has 6 template sets (hehe web page still says "5" Shocked), I'm sure over the next year more template sets will come out for gforum. hmmm, I wonder though ... what would happen if GT were to make a flashy web site?

Everbody here in this thread have posted many good arguments. I wonder though, if actually looking deeper you just might notice some fundametal differences between these 3 major forum scripts. Who are the designers, the programmers and then evetually the end user?

ahhh just some comments ... Angelic

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile

Last edited by:

QooQ: Mar 19, 2002, 3:44 PM
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
In Reply To:
I've never been a fan of the templates
Templates are great, they allow you to do anything you want with the design. On the other hand, from what I've seen, people don't want to invest the time in modifying/creating templates, and just want a quicky 5 minute, change the colors type of 'template'.

In Reply To:
, though the latest GMail ones were a great improvement. ... Nothing against programmers, but it's been my experience they aren't exactly the greatest artists and designers in the world. Looking at some of the template sets it *does* look like they've just been knocked up when the programmers had 5 minutes.
Which Gossamer Mail templates are you talking about? The original simple templates were created by a programmer. They might not have been too aesthetically pleasing, but they were designed for easy modification. About 98% of the HTML was good, valid HTML. On the other hand, the default templates were designed by a 'designer,' but IMHO weren't too aesthetically pleasing either. <shameless plug>That's why I myself went and revamped the simple template (which will be included in the next release)</shameless plug>. We also got another designer to create a new default template set. Either way, none of these template sets are 5 minute jobs. Creating a good template set, which can be easily customized takes a long time.

In Reply To:
In a word the webhostingtalk board is just slick. GForum is a fair way behind, in my opinion. The "feature request" wasn't so much a point by point blow of what needs doing, more a point in the right direction as I see it, written as a "look how great this is".
To be fair, vBulletin's been around for quite a while now. They've had a lot of time to add those features (IMHO, some are somewhat useless). What would be more constructive, as others have mentioned, is making a list of features you think are useful. If there's enough interest in certain features, they will get added.

Adrian
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Re: [brewt] Feature request In reply to
I'm going to defend Jason a bit here. But first, I think he's referring to these specific templates and not the fact that it's a template based system, and that might be causing some confusion. And let me also say that so far I'm pretty happy with this forum so far (I'm looking to convert a site from w3t to gf).

Switching colors to integrate into your site isn't the easiest task it should be. I love the concept of templates and I think the basic layout of these is fine. But I don't like these colors at all (and I'm not overly thrilled with all the icons) and one of the problems with integrating into a different color scheme has to do with some of the graphics, which are clearly designed for this color scheme. Personally I would have gone with graphics that are more color generic and will fit with a variety of color schemes, even if you limited it to light color backgrounds.

But the biggest issue I see is that stylesheets are being used, but sort of as an afterthought. There are alot of things hard coded into the templates that really should be in the stylesheet. All the stuff in the globals and language that relate to design elements (fonts, bgcolor, etc... ) should be in the stylesheet and none of that should be in the template, which should really just be for dealing with the layout. The concept of the templates here goes pretty much against that. With all that design info in a stylesheet you would have the ability to do a 5 minute quickie change. Edit one file to change colors and fonts, boom, you are done. And you could even add a feature to the user options, that let's them choose from different style sheets that could be created by this community, pretty easily I might add. Hey there's a feature that's missing Wink Then you could have template sets and stylesheets within template set for your googles of choices.

Now, I'm coming from the w3t community which was more established so that's part of my bias/opinion and I recognize it's a new product and will evolve as this community wants it to because GT is great about getting involved with this community.

What would be great, and I've asked this before, is if there were the default set and then a default_css set, which had everything converted.

Here, just for fun, I'm attaching a screen shot of what I'm doing with mine... you probably won't even recognize it. note the navigation at the top, the message listings, etc... I've ripped out a bunch of stuff and will be adding others so my focus isn't (I'll apologize for this now) to make a default set others can use or to convert it fully to stylesheets, but rather one that I can use right away for this new site I'm working on. Sorry.

As for features, I really haven't had a chance to look at comparing this to w3t or ubb or vbulletin, but that's actually on my to do list here once I finish with redesigning all my templates, at least against the features I'm using in the forums now that I want to switch... If someone has a checklist already out there, post it up, let's see how they stack up... I'm guessing it's pretty close. Also remember that a lot of the features in these other products came from their communities. I know of at least two in w3t that are my ideas and there are probably more. Once I get a chance to go through the code, I'll be happy to post up what I think is missing just to get on par with what I'm using now on another site. I can tell you right off the top that polls are very important to me and so is an email this post to a friend.

Take all this for what it's worth. It's not intended as a criticism to GT but more of an observation based upon where I'm coming from . HTH.
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Re: [JerryP] Feature request In reply to
On that note; is anyone here working on converting the templates to stylesheets?

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
On some days when I've been extremely bored, I've considered making a new template set for Gossamer Forum, but then I think back to the 'fun' times I had doing the Gossamer Mail template and then go continue on being bored Wink. Making templates are fun for the first few templates, but after they get extremely boring! I must say it would be really neat to get a new template set with some slick graphics, nice cross browser HTML, and easily changeable colours/fonts/etc (eg. via stylesheets).

Adrian
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Re: [brewt] Feature request In reply to
>>Making templates are fun for the first few templates, but after they get extremely boring!<<

Tell me about it. I've done about 20 Links SQL sets and I start ripping my hair out after the first 10...ugh
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Re: [brewt] Feature request In reply to
Hm, but it wouldn't be that much work with search & replace to edit the current templates to work with stylesheets.

Might try this one when I'm bored ;-)

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
Wil,
Don't be so sure about it being _that_ easy. I have a handy dandy script I use for searching and replacing and I started trying that before I started customizing my templates, and after a few hours of working on it, I decided to just deal with my layout first and work on really converting it to css later. I'm kinda tied up getting ready to make a new site live, but in a week or so, I'll be happy to help out a bit if some folks wanna work on this.
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Re: [JerryP] Feature request In reply to
Yeah, maybe a collaborative effort is the way ahead?

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
that'd be fine with me... not sure if you wanna take charge or if anyone else wants to get involved. But I'm happy to help where I can.
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Re: [JerryP] Feature request In reply to
In Reply To:
that'd be fine with me... not sure if you wanna take charge or if anyone else wants to get involved. But I'm happy to help where I can.

I was hoping for a go-ahead from GT and some supervision or coordination from maybe, Adrian or someone? That way we can be sure that we're creating the templates to some standard?

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
Wil,
Having come from the w3t community, on things like this it's best to go for it. I can't imagine GT would have a problem with it and with the community doing stuff like this you'll find more and more people getting involved with it... all you really need later is the ability to have somewhere to archive the "add-ons" for others to download, and the forum can handle that with the attachments.

And the standard to create them to is that they work or they don't. If they don't, people who are contemplating using them will tell you, and you fix what's broke. And just like with the new forum when it was in beta, ask a few people to test them, I'm betting there will be a reasonably decent demand for stylesheet templates. Smile and you have the customizations forum already set up to take care of posting info about these kind of things. maybe someone can create a new posting icon for something to do with an addon like that.
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Re: [JerryP] Feature request In reply to
what else I was just thinking that would be nice would be to create a stylesheet that would work not only for the forum, for the other templates products like mail and links so that one stylesheet could be used anywhere... don't know if that's possible or not, but would be great if it were
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Re: [JerryP] Feature request In reply to
Hi

Yeah, common names for tags could be a very good idea! Good thinking!

Anyway, I won't be able to start work on this for at least a week - I'm off tomorrow skiing for a week in the Alps :-)

I will definitily put effort into this as soon as I come back, though - sounds like a valuable project.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
So.. who's up for doing this again?

I think we should open an account on scoureforge and make use of their project management/bug tracking systems to help keep track if multiple developers are going to be involved.

What do you guys reckon?

- wil
Post deleted by Paul In reply to

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 18, 2002, 7:43 AM
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Re: [Paul] Feature request In reply to
Ah, no go through scoureforge. It only hosts open source software and they have a clause to say that they can publish your code after - not really what we're looking for here.

Any more offers or suggestions for a decent way of organizing this task?

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
I thought you'd mistyped sourceforge...hehe...not heard of scoureforge.

I don't mind using some of my server resources.

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 18, 2002, 7:41 AM
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
Ok im lost....scoureforge doesn't seem to exist. I get no results on yahoo or google....what is the url?
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Re: [Paul] Feature request In reply to
http://www.sourceforge.net/

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
Eh?

Thats exactly what I said before and you just told me they aren't what you are looking for.

What the heck is scoureforge....that URL is sourceforge like I said.

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 18, 2002, 7:59 AM
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Re: [Paul] Feature request In reply to
No, no .. That's the site I was referring to. It's just that I read more about the 'Project FAQ' and I realised it's not what we need for this project. Because a) it's not open source and b) we don't want the code to be published under the sourceforge domain.

edit: But we do need a similar structure, if available?

- wil

Last edited by:

Wil: Apr 18, 2002, 8:09 AM
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
lol my brain can't cope with this.

I mentioned sourceforge and you said:

>>Ah, no go through scoureforge. <<

So are you saying that you were referring to sourceforge when you said that or is scoureforge something different?

If you were referring to sourceforge in the first place, why did you say no when I mentioned source-forge...were you getting confused with the names?
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Re: [Paul] Feature request In reply to
Unsure

My grammer was incorrect. I meant to say 'sourceforge is a no-go' because of complications (see above).

I've been referring to the same (and only) sourceforge all along. LOL!

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
Right thats ok, I just hate weird experiences that leave me thinking I've gone senile.
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Re: [Paul] Feature request In reply to
I call that living ;-)

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Feature request In reply to
I still want to take this up if anyone still fancies it? :-)

- wil
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Re: [wickedmoon] Feature request In reply to
Quote:
...as a designer myself.


Quote:


... some of the template sets it *does* look like they've just been knocked up when the programmers had 5 minutes.


I want to say first off that I read only to the post I replied to. Since the post I am replying to is over a year old, I just could not read any more of them without venting to very unprofessional statements by wickedmoon. Perhaps you apologized to the programmers of GF since your nasty remark? If you have - wonderful. But if you have not, please read on.

I have to say (not in defense of GF - they don't need anyone to take their backs) that your statements contradict themselves.

You state that "as a designer..." meaning that you view yourself as a person who can take something that you claim to be "look like they've just been knocked up when the programmers had 5 minutes," and do it much better.

When I read that insulting and very obnoxious remark, I immediately and with great expectations - went to your forum. I was excited to see how you - a designer - had redesigned your GF! I could not wait to see if I could improve my forum to the caliper that you obviously had done. I mean, why else would you make such a rude and insulting remark? So I went to your GF and I said....

WHERE'S THE BEEF?

Shame on you.

Personally, when I came to GF for the first time, after my eyes took in all of the features I wanted it to have --- they immediately went about mentally changing colors, fonts, tab colors... rearranging the furniture and whatnot. I did not come here expecting to purchase a script that was 'ready to go." Although, the forum as it stands out-of-the-box is quite an attractive package and I think it is fine as it is. I also would rather buy clean code than something pretty.

I, as a designer - can create something pretty with the foundation script. It's the code that is the crux of the forum itself.

I am wondering that with your statement of being "a designer," why then does your forum look so bland? You make a harsh statement about the design, but you have not worked to improve the GF beyond its original design.

I just had to vent. But if one is going to make pointed statements about someone's work, you darn well better have done either something better, or improved upon the design.

My dad, who was a carpenter, told me something years ago. I was on a job with him, and I remarked to my dad that the painter did a sloppy job. My dad took me aside quickly and angrily said; "Never criticize another man's work in front of him or his peers."
Good advice.

"You say you want a revoloution.. well you know..
we'd all love to see the plan"
-Lennon/McCartney

~žophia~

Last edited by:

sophiabarton: Jun 16, 2003, 11:35 AM
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Re: [sophiabarton] Feature request In reply to
They were constructive comments, not designed to be nasty. I think the GT templates are poor compared to the competition. My comments stand regardless of what I've done to my own templates. I tend not to make many changes to the templates because of all the updates and the corresponding changes that frequently need to be made.

Jason