Why don't all of us serious webmasters that plan on making a fortune on the web all get together and start one big search engine and become the next Yahoo! but 10X better. Some of us can't afford to compete with the big one's out there but if we all contribute our resources we could have a much better chance. If you are a serious webmaster that plans on making millions on the web and spends 5-14 hrs. a day working on your site post your qualifications and e-mail and let's get together people. I don't know about you guys but I am totally devoted to starting the next Yahoo and plan on spendinding $1,500 for my logo alone. It's one thing to have a dream, but it's another to have dozens of devoted people that support and contribute to making your dreams come true. We can make it happen!!
Lou
I'm tired of seeing all these other success stories on T.V. knowing damn well I could do the same. Some of us have twenty times the innovation and ideas then the big boys but don't have all the resources to make it happen if we all contribute our skills we can easily become the next success story on ABC. news.

If you are greater than me, I will study you until you are no longer greater than me.
Failure is only a seed for success, don't take it as a loss, take it as a lesson..
Lou M.
CleverQuest.com

[This message has been edited by Thee_Host (edited October 16, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Thee_Host (edited October 16, 1999).]

i don't think the net needs another directory targeted at the entire web.. seriously..

yahoo is something that all of us obviously go to.. why? they are content rich.. first they have their content in like so many different languages bringing them in a bunch of visitors from around the world.. then they have direct quotes from brokers that are PAID.. then they have weather directly from a weather provider.. that are PAID.. they have much more like games and stuff (chats) which are all PAID.. [games.. paid programming] and [chats.. programming and celebrity guests]..

also.. they have ALOT more.. like maps.. which are paid also.. paid paid paid..

it would make no sense to compete with them..

some of us have stock quotes.. but where do we get them off of? YAHOO!.. we strip all their content..

it's like saying.. LET'S COPY YAHOO AND JUST STRIP ALL CONTENT EXCEPT CHANGE THEIR LOGO!

also.. if you wanted to get to where yahoo is.. it would cost you millions before you make millions.. it would take years.. years of trying to get the public to realize that you are good.. which is hard to do because as you try and develop.. yahoo comes out with something new everyday..

also.. yahoo has auctions.. if you wanted an auction.. you can't make one out of every auction.. too much problems.. you would have to spend $3000 on the bidder network or some other script and then you would also have to improve the script.. nothing beats ebay or yahoo.. not even microsoft's auction.. which is auction software that is for sale to public..

jerry

Jerry,
I never said I was going to duplicate Yahoo actually my concept is way different. How many companies do you know of that make stuffed animals? Thousands if not millions of companies make stuffed animals, but who made the most money? Beanie Babies why because it's unique and they took on the market at a totally different angle. It's all about marketing I've been studying marketing for 9 years. After all what makes Nike shoes so different and makes every teenager run out and buy there shoes becuase there different they have air...Who cares right? So what if they got air, but it worked. I'm not trying to duplicate Yahoo at all in fact I'm trying to create a search engine that is totally different and makes searching and finding what you want much easier. I don't take your comments as an insult in fact I love it when people like you say it cannot be done it just makes me try harder and work until I accomplish my goals. Thank you for your doubts..
Lou

Ps-Oh yeah I forgot to mention Yahoo did not start with millions they started with innovation. they were people just like you and I, college students actually. Do you think they studied marketing for 9 years and studied internet marketing for 3 years..hell no they just started something everybody liked and most important it was unique. Same thing I'm trying to do.. When I said "The next Yahoo" I was comparing to the success they have had not their content. Not everything they use is paid any ways you can easily connect to a websites server and put the information on your template provided it was approved by the owners of the content. Any ways most of their content is just joint ventures they have established with other companies like ABC News, CNN etc...Joint ventures are not at all hard to establish...One thing I've learned about the internet is even the boss answers his own e-mail..
------------------
If you are greater than me, I will study you until you are no longer greater than me.
Failure is only a seed for success, don't take it as a loss, take it as a lesson..
CleverQuest.com

[This message has been edited by Thee_Host (edited October 16, 1999).]

There are already search engines out there that are content rich and are maintained by real people (what a concept). Some of these are:

About.com (formerly the Miningco)
www.about.com

Open Directory Project
www.dmoz.org

WWW Virtual Library
www.vlib.org
(which I am member of and has its own meta search engine.)

There are also an increasing number of connected meta networks of specialized resources, like the

OCLC - CORC project
http://www.oclc.org/...earch/projects/corc/

There are also reference sites on the Web that offer updated references, articles, etc., like the following:

Electric Library
http://www.elibrary.com/

Internet Public Library
http://www.ipl.org/

It would be a very ambitious task to work on something that is unique and is not offered anywhere else on the Net.

Good luck.

Regards,

------------------
Eliot Lee
Founder and Editor
Anthro TECH, L.L.C
http://www.anthrotech.com/
info@anthrotech.com
==========================
Coconino Community College
http://www.coco.cc.az.us/
Web Technology
Coordinator
elee@coco.cc.az.us

Widgetz and Elliot,
Any ways I'm not looking for partners that don't have any strive and think there is no way to make it on the net. I am not here for critizism and to hear that it cannot be done. Please stop replying and let serious people respond to my orginal comment.
Thank you,
Lou

i think if you wanted to be the next success.. you should target your site at something totally unseen.. it would be hard to get ideas.. but who knows.. it could be a really dumb one that some people will just really really like..

to tell you the truth.. i rarely use any other "search" engine other than altavista.. and sometimes yahoo.. i have no clue about all the others..

it seems obvious to me what you should do is something to do with commerce.. like how ebay has setup such a wonderful community of people.. instead of auctions you could do something similiar.. but alot of things have already started coming recently.. like ewanted.com it's exact opposite of auctions.. the buyer posts what he wants to buy.. and tries to get the lowest price.. (heh)

there are so many things already on the internet.. we don't need anymore of them.. we need something new.. but of course.. any marketer will tell you.. after you come up with an idea.. and then other people start copying your idea.. then the idea will die out.. so like yahoo.. you have to keep going..

jerry

I agree with Thee_Host. You have to keep working at something new in mind. I have been working day and night on this idea I have in mind. It takes alot of patience and motivation. The best way to make it in the search engine or link directory market is to be a specialty service. Though to be successful make sure your specialty is popular enough that attracts alot of visitors on the internet. I mean starting a metal flute collectors site would probably not bring as much visitors as a 98 Degrees fan site. though again this is also based on overall site promotions. I am now just trying to find a reliable host for Links 2.0 that won't get me broke....I think I found one though I have a disaster plan implemented as soon I hit 4,000 links.

Sorry, Worng Forum

[This message has been edited by Jimz (edited October 17, 1999).]

Not to be discouraging, but to Three_Host: A big reason for Yahoo's rise to the top was being amongst the first to the market. That initial web rush is over. In order to create something that big during the web's current state of maturing it takes at least hundreds of thousands, and really millions of dollars of venture capital funding.

Searching for partners on the Gossamer forum is going to get you no where. And not to knock Links, (I absolutely love it!) but I think building a web empire on this app wouldn't be the strongest bet b/c the directory/search engine giants are more than established. A focused site that does 100,000/hits a day is entirely possible, but more than that...

More power to you if you can accomplish your goal!

There are so many ideas ripe and ready to be exploited, I for one do not agree that all good ideas are taken. This is only the beginning. People have been saying that ever since the day Netscape and Yahoo went public.

There would not be companies like MCI-Worldcom-Sprint, Papa John's Pizza, Hollywood video, Dell computers, to name a few, if their founders had thought that their specific makets had already been conquered by AT&T, Pizza Hut, Blockbuster, IBM and the like.

Easier said than done about the idea of a group working together. Initially things start off well but it is hard to maintain the same enthsiasm as time goes by.

I have thought about this for a while but am cautious before getting in to it because I want to finish what I start. I have to think before I involve with a group of individual I do not know.

But this is not something wherein you will put 5-14 hrs. per week and everything is ladeda. There is no such thing. On the Internet, even a part-time thing takes full time effort. Moreover you need "passion". Go, ask the About.com editors. I bet you, they all put more than 25-30 hrs. per week. Like their founder said recently, that we want people who want to work and who want to adapt to new things instantly, because that is what is required to win in this industry. If you do not want to work "now" you might as well work in some other industry.

I am not short of ideas. I am just having a tough time doing it all. If anyone is seriously interested in the About.com business model (but for a niche market only, not everything for everybody) let me know.

Finally, let me say this. What thee-host is proposing is not only doable, but we will see a lot of it. Just to give you an example, the Open Directory was scoffed off by the big guys a year ago. Today the directory can be seen on 5 of the top ten portals and a whole bunch of other sites. Not bad for a couple of guys who stared it with a vision.


[This message has been edited by socrates (edited October 18, 1999).]

Just like microsoft coppied Apples MacOS (which is much better then anything Microsoft could make). Microsoft made out OK. Yet I still want the Gov. to destroy them, they are making out OK. So, thee_host may make out ok, or he might be heading into a brick wall. Just depends on if the user will get something out of your site. If its just a plain gray background, and a few links, no ones gonna go there. But, even if you have no orrigional content, but have a awesome design, you still will get allot of vistors. But you also need some content.
If you provide interaction with other users, you will get many mor epoeple comming back. Like I come to this site every day to read the message boards, If there were no message boards, i amy only come back here weekly or monthly. If you look at Alex's logs, you probley will find most of his traffic, is to the message boards.
For my site, the directory i dont care much about, yet its very big in size, its not worth as much as other parts of my site. I hope to be providing free email, message boards, chat, online games, moderated chats, auctions, and personals. That will pull in most of my traffic, and then they will start using the directory for searching. Of course, not all my traffic will come in, I will have some pople just huning for information like they would do with any other search engine.
That is why Yahoo is so big. They provide, auctions, chat, games, classifieds, games, fantasy games, and clubs. Without those, Yahoo would not be nearly as big as it is now.
As long as I am going on with this topic, can a few Windows users tell me what my site looks like. http://netoo.hypermart.net . Before you start compaining about Hypermart, pop-up banners and all. I should be moving soon to antoehr host shortly in 2 months. I will probley in a year after that, depending on how I do, expand to Dedicated RAQ servers. They seem like they will support Links very well.
Thats about it for now



------------------
Happy Trails!

Jimz
Netoo! Web Devlopment Dept.
Netoo! Internet Services Of America.

I have to say there is nothing wrong with negative comments, stuff like this helps build a great site. A
bunch of serious webmasters all contributing their thoughts can easily create one great S.E. I only
wish you guys could take your negative thoughts and use them to create something positive and that
generates income. That was my original intention " A bunch of serious webmasters all brain-storming
and giving their opinions". I must say though from what I see some of you are the type that ,want to
get rich and win the lottery, but will never buy the damn lottery ticket and just keep wishing.

As for me I am not that type. I totally agree with socrates saying "There would not be companies like
MCI-Worldcom-Sprint, Papa
John's Pizza, Hollywood video, Dell computers, to name a few, if their founders had
thought that their specific makets had already
been conquered by AT&T, Pizza Hut, Blockbuster, IBM and the like."

Take for instance a case study done by the company that makes the Lucky Charms cereal every so often they create a new lucky charm marshmallow and every time they do their sales increase by as
much as 41 percent. Can you believe that just changing the color and shape of a marshmallow can increase sales by as much as 41 percent?The idea is to just make it better and more creative and every time they do their
sales do increase, every single time. Now seriously imagine if Lucky Charms introduced a glow in the
dark lucky charm so you think their sales would increase? Hell yeah it's proven, creativity and
innovation always pays off. It's not the name brand that conquers----it's the quality.

People want their current or future problems to be solved---that's all marketing is really about.We all know
we have found are selves searching for what we want to find on the net for hours and hours and sometimes never even found it! If a new search engine was introduced that helped you find what you want in half the time and was much easier let me ask you something: Would you still spend hours at Yahoo just because they were the first? I didn't think so...
Thee_Host





[This message has been edited by Thee_Host (edited October 18, 1999).]

I just thought of this and I had to add it:
Hey there's already Mcdonalds so selling hamburgers is way out of the question! Get real guys..
Thee_Host

It doesn't matter if something has been done already. One of the ways to succeed is to do it better (which often means doing it differently) than others do it. The world is full of mediocrity. Very few strive for excellence. We usually notice those that succeed in achieving it.

hmm..

something i don't find realistic is coming into the Links Discussion forum to find these "entrepreneurs"..

a few people in here have asked other people if they wanted to join in to make one huge mega yahoo also.. but without many replies.. i was a little suprised when the thread went passed 3..

right now.. i don't think many internet startups have as much chance to be successful in the beginning as other places..

but still.. You can get it if you want it. You just have to try hard and not quit.

jerry

hmm..
something i don't find realistic is coming into the Links Discussion
forum to find these "entrepreneurs"..
Hmmm.
I don't recall me stating I was in search of
entrepreneurs or did I suddenly lose my memory? I do remember asking why don't all of us SERIOUS webmasters get together and and create one great directory though. Don't tell me your site was created with no thought of generating income or was it? I don't know but most of the SERIOUS webmasters I know don't just do it for pure fun. If that is your case maybe you should change your domain name to .org .gov or .net instead of .com for commercial.

Do you think if I went to a different forum targeted towards entrepreneurs and asked them about HTML, perl etc.. Do you think they would know what I'm talkin about? Doubt it...I think my message here was targeted to the right audience if you ask me. Maybe you are the one that's a little off track. Because 99% of webmasters those who don't use geocities and crap like that created their sites out of hobby and to generate income and I think everyone here would agree to that. Check yourself.
Thee_Host

[This message has been edited by Thee_Host (edited October 18, 1999).]

May be entrepreneurs might not understand the technical aspects of web design and programming...but they are ones that are essential in making a vision a reality. How do you expect to market your project without capital? If you'll notice, many successful web resources are now being advertised on public and cable television (not to mention radio and hard print media).

Creating an outstanding web site is half the battle...You need marketing experts and investors to make it a success.

BTW: People who have posted comments in this Thread may have been critical about your idea, but they are providing realistic perspectives about the prospects of this type of project. Telling people not to participate in this type of discussion because their comments are "negative" is counter-productive. It would be wise to listen to critical comments to better plan your project.



Regards,

------------------
Eliot Lee
Founder and Editor
Anthro TECH, L.L.C
http://www.anthrotech.com/
info@anthrotech.com
==========================
Coconino Community College
http://www.coco.cc.az.us/
Web Technology
Coordinator
elee@coco.cc.az.us

actually.. i don't plan on generating income off my site..

i just bought the domains cause programming got me the money.. more "conveinent.." and if i do want to make sites out of them. i could..

but right now.. no plans to..

i do more stuff on other peoples sites than on my site really.. makes me more revenue than trying and figuring out what the heck i'm gonna make..

plus.. i pay for hosting. so i still have to make a profit somewhere.. just to tell you something.. i have no problem earning income making scripts / etc.. it's actually pretty easy.. i don't have to pay taxes yet too i haven't really spent a buck since i was in 7th grade to tell you the truth.. (now 9th..)

spoiled? no.. i work my ass off for it..

i wasn't trying to be "negative in my post.." i was just trying to tell you that this forum isn't the best place to find 100% positive people that want to make a 10x super de duperty yahoo...

but still.. just do it.. be adventoruous.. if i had time.. i would help you.. seriously..

jerry

[This message has been edited by widgetz (edited October 18, 1999).]

Hello people, first post here and i wish i knew what you were talking about (most of the time)
Just surprised at the negativity on the money making issue. You really think that at this stage of the game all the opportunities have gone ? The web is doubling every 100-150 days, 50% of domains are now non-English speaking...folks, for the world, it's just beginning !
It's kind of like saying, OK, we populated the East Coast lets stop there. There is a great land rush going on and the first to plant a flag in the ground gets the best opportunity. Think back 2-3 years, that's where Europe is..and everyone else is still using typewriters for goodness sake.
I don't know about the rules here or even the market i'm not going to mention but the number one money spinner right now and constituting 30% of the web doesn't appear to have a dedicated search engine..in any language. There might be one, i don't know but gees...Millions of opportunities..hey, really great forums, cheers.

[This message has been edited by AndrewB (edited October 19, 1999).]

Jimz,


Know where Steve Jobs got the idea? He seen it years before at Xerox's PARC labs, even the mouse! The upper management insisted the development team give them all there insights. How's that for creativity?

But just to be further off the topic, your page looks OK in Windows except the fonts are tooooo small. Have a heart, some of us still use 14" monitors. >8~{

Dan O.

Did IBM's operating system ever make it to the stores? Microsoft copied the MacOS, because they seen how well it was selling. But, Microsoft did a VERY BAD job of making a copie of the MacOS, cause windows just plain stinks. They had to make it very compatable, which left many holes in it. Plus, there was one future, Microsoft did not copy from the MacOS, Non-Y2K operating systems, like Apple did include. Thanks for trying my site, I don't have a pc to test it on. I tried my best to make the fonts look right, Windows, uses much bigger fonts, so I had to make them all smaller then for the mac verson. Well, I will work on it, and try to find a pc to test it on.

------------------
Happy Trails!

Jimz
Netoo! Web Devlopment Dept.
Netoo! Internet Services Of America.

the only thing i notice that is different about windows and macs.. windows have the start bar on bottom (usually).. macs have it on the top... windows have the icons on the left side.. macs on the right (usually)..

like they completely flip flipped it all..

one thing i don't like about macs is the toolbar being on the top for every program.. unlike windows.. each window has it's own..

but anyway.. apple was stupid for not copyrighting the look of the OS.. they should have done it..

jerry

Widgetz,
So your basically saying that there should be a menu bar for every window? Hehe, thats one of the reasons I dont like Windows, you get lost in Menu bars. Plus, you cant copyright the GUI concept. (At least I dont think you can). Well, I would think most of you guys use macs, as most of you do webdesign and graphics, which is 100x better on a mac. Ask any professional grpahic artist.

------------------
Happy Trails!

Jimz
Netoo! Web Devlopment Dept.
Netoo! Internet Services Of America.

If you can't copyright the GUI concept, why do you say that microsoft stole from mac. I us windows and i don't like it all the time, but its somewhat fine for me. Apple weren't so innocent because they basically stole too. Anyway, i think your idea Thee_Host is generally a good one if i understand correctly ( get a whole bunch of webmasters to start a search engine, sort of the way Yahoo started). Thats all good, but if you would be planning on using links, you would need people who do or have done mods, because i wouldn't use bare links to represent itself as a contender against Yahoo. Also a certain uniqueness that strays from every one of Yahoos really personal details, like the way they bring back search results. Just my opinion.

i don't like macs period..

i used to want one when i was in 3rd grade.. cause our school had those performa's and i was like "WHOA" ..

but they suck.. i had to put one together for a teacher once.. and it was too easy..

i also made a webpage on them once.. and i couldn't figure out a thing.. it was my elementary school's webpage.. and they ended up getting Adobe Pagemill for me and let me use a WYSIWYG.. but still.. it was slow.. that's what i remember

i'd prolly like a mac better if i had a smaller PC monitor.. (my monitor is 21").. so i have plenty of room for things.. right now.. there is 7 netscape windows open.. homesite.. cuteftp.. word.. and paint shop pro... all visible..

on a mac however.. (at school) i was only able to open 2 netscape windows.. and i forgot about the second one eventually.. it wasn't visible.. and i couldn't figure out how to minimize the window.. SOO..

jerry

Dang this is getting way off the topic. Well so far I have pulled in a very well versed programmer that has done work with Geocities in the past. All we really need is some great graphic designers and maybe another programmer to handle the lighter programming. So if that's you and you are a very, very serious webmaster let me know we almost got the team together. Good luck to all of you guys!
Thee_Host

 
i don't think we're the ones that are going to need luck..

anyways.. be sure to not program in PERL, PHP, or CFM.. i think you will find C more efficient and the speed will be faster..

also.. i don't think you should go with design first.. i never do it.. you'll notice my site is a mess.. but hey.. i find it when i make a design before i make the site.. at the end i totally hate the design or it doesn't fit well with the program..

so don't spend too much money on that at first.. it's not neccesary..

so.. are you planning on registering this business? trademark and everything?

ITOLDYASO, Inc.

and your slogan can be..

:P Yahoo..

anyways..

jerry

Removed by Admin.

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 21, 1999).]

Ok, that was ...
I don't think you know that the reason Widgetz was saying that was probably because you mentioned Yahoo a couple of times in your 1st message and stated your thing as "The next Yahoo". I read Widgetz message and all it says is not to program in anything like perl, php, or cfm because they aren't really server-side languages. C is fast, stable, and generally easier than perl in logarithms. Perl is written wierdly. All i see Widgetz reply as was helpful advice.

I think this thread has run it's course, better close it before it gets any worse.

http://www.netmeg.net/.../g/godwin_s_law.html

Cheers,

Alex