I have noticed over the past couple weeks an onslaught of negativity within the forums and not limited to the chit chat section or PM's.

While being critical of a design, a piece of code or an idea is acceptable the trend is towards the degradation of and attacks upon a person rahter than their work.

Threads move away from the original purpose to become arguments between 2 or more unrelated to the thread. This discounts the reason for the thread as well as distracts from achieving results with the thread.

I would like to make a suggestion relative to these "fall offs" within a thread. I think it would be a good idea if they were deleted by a moderator and/or moved to the chit chat area for further discussion. Of course this requires "active moderation" of the forums.

I also feel that if a moderator initiates these personal attacks that are off the subject of the thread that they should be considered for loss of status as a moderator. A moderator is one that takes care of issues and not starts them.

This forum has a lot to offer all levels of users. But it is getting tainted by attitudes between users. Of course I do not claim to be perfect either. But I understand that making a comment (outside of chit chat) that is degrading of a persons abilities or the person itself can and does effect change on their ability to make income from customers that visit this forum. And this is very unfair business practice as well, especially from those who would benefit from the business that is gained due to their remarks about and related business loss from another.

Debating is one thing, personal and thread unrelated attacks are not. This needs to stop!



Thanks!

Agreed. I have also noticed issues. Perhaps more active moderation is needed.

I think one of the problems is that sometimes it is between mods (not excluding myself)...

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk

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I think part of the problem is that sometimes people take contructive criticizm of their code to be a personal attack.

I'd be quite happy to sit and watch people make a hash of their code (no pun intended) but if I can offer advice why should I sit quiet?....I may as well not bother coming to the forum.

Just remember....

The way things are said is just as important as the thought behind the post.

Take the time to post to someone else in the manner that you would want someone to post to you. If you want to have deep rooted sarcasim, smarminess and lack of repect pointed at your posts, a sure way is to do that to others.

I agree Andy. And moderators are held to a higher set of rules since they are there to remove issues and be a quieting agent within a forum.

Nobody is suggesting you to sit back and become inactive Paul.

This is about the kind of communication that has been seen outside the chit chat area that is degrading the usefulness and friendly atmosphere of the forum.

It is beginning to look like a personal war zone when threads are shot off topic by attacks and critical opinions. When a thread is about X it should stay on X to assit the person who started the thread and is asking for assistance or support.

Good suggestions...and I hope that you also heed your own advice as well.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Stealth, don't bait me!

I stated "Of course I do not claim to be perfect either. But I understand that making a comment (outside of chit chat) that is degrading of a persons abilities or the person itself can and does effect change on their ability to make income from customers that visit this forum."

You stated "Good suggestions...and I hope that you also heed your own advice as well." Does this mean that you do not find yourself guilty of being a disruptive agent within the forum or does the word "also" mean that you are going to do it along with reminding me to heed my own advice?

I didn't state that...now who is putting words into whose mouth?

And I did miss the prequalifer in your statement, which I apologize, although the tone of your message seemed to be placing blame on others rather than admitting that you have also contributed to the "negativity of the forums".

And stating things like,"Don't bait me" is as negative as the examples you've cited above. That is a threatening and sarcastic remark, which you are preaching that should no longer be posted in the forum.

I merely was attempting to commend you on your post, but what did you do? Reacted in a defensive and childish manner.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Hehe this is so ironic, the topic this thread about, is happening in this thread.

I knew it was destined to end in trouble the moment I saw the thread title.

Myself and Ian have just ordered some popcorn before the show starts

Edit: Toffee flavor, will go nicely with my lasagne.

The first part of your statement was that Stealth.

The second part was a direct dig at me.

And I also noticed that you did not cop to any wrongdoings of your own.

Remember that the first step in correcting a problem is owning the problem.



Stealth you have some wonderful ideas, understand the program well and have been and can obviously be a tremendous help to others within the forum. You can also be a disruptive force.

Everybody should understand that they are judged by their words left in a thread from months ago. Because the forum is a reference as much as it is interactive. In fact, the lookiloos outweigh the active thread participants by a large margin (basic human interactive processes).

Just be aware and be proactive.

*Find a happy place, find a happy place*

Debate is OK Paul.



It is when name calling and personal attacks happen that it is not acceptable.

If the person being called a name does not even dignify the name calling comment by responding to it in like and kind, but yet continues on with the debate, he wins. Debate 101!

Again, I didn't state any of what you are proposing to put in my mouth, Teamblder. You have yet to "own" up to any problems happening, so don't lecture others to do the same.

"Remember that the first step in correcting a problem is owning the problem."

Okay, here it is, I tend to be sarcastic, but that is my nature, can't break that. And I do tend to reply in negative manner (mostly defensive when others attack), but I have RARELY personally attacked others in the forums in the sense of saying things like YOU are this, OR YOU are THAT. Do I apologize for those types of interactions where things have gotten out of hand? Yes, if it is started by me, but in cases like this thread where you have definitely started something, nope, I stand by my words, no regrets.

So, it's now your turn, Teambldr? Why don't you "OWN" up to the problems you've contributed to in this forum? Huh? Or would you like to continue this debate.

And I agree, through your subtle advice, I would also ask that you watch what you say, since you have not been an angel, ain't that the truth.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

I stated "Of course I do not claim to be perfect either. But I understand that making a comment (outside of chit chat) that is degrading of a persons abilities or the person itself can and does effect change on their ability to make income from customers that visit this forum."

Have you seen "Gladiators"?

I've been away from the forum for a few days (4-5) and when you don't post it is really fun watching everyones posts but more importantly you can see how silly some arguments are and I'm glad I've learned that because I must have acted like a fool lots of times , but you live and learn, and I've learned over the past week that lifes too short to argue over minescule little itty bitty things.

Now, my parents are away on holiday so my doors are open for a group orgy tonight.

Oh, I agree Paul. Reading old posts can really open a window to the mind.

Be more specific...that statement tells me nothing.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Acceptance is all that is needed Stealth. This is not a twelve step program, only an awareness thread. And by being aware it is a hope that it will change.

Im tempted to ask which posts you've been reading but if they are mine then I don't want to know

*Paul runs into the closet, closes the door and crouches in the corner...*

*Ian thinks that the closet is a funny place to have an orgy*


http://www.iuni.com/...tware/web/index.html
Links Plugins

Come out of the closet Paul! LMAO

Especially with all the skeletons that are in it

Well now that you mention it cutie pie, I've had a crush on you for a while now.

Thanks everybody.

Just remember those old posts do come back to haunt you at a later date so being proactive now makes it better later.



Perception IS reality!



Lunch Time!!!<whistle>

I can see post 26 coming back to haunt me

What we need now is a drill, the hedgetrimmers, and some ordinary household bleach.

Yep, mark those words, Teambldr...I'll definitely be holding you to them...although I really think that your statement was too generic and had "putting the blame on others" tone it, meaning,"Others have caused so many problems and things need to change, and OH, BTW:, I know that I am not perfect, but others need to change"...again, tone and method are deeper than actual message.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

LOL thats quite funny...what is it from?

Heh found it coincidentally...

http://home.earthlink.net/...ertdog/pbsounds.html

I will not be baited into an argument with you no matter how hard you try to get me into one Stealth. Enjoy!

"Two steps forward and two steps back, we come together 'coz opposites attract" - Paula Abdul

Out of curiousity, how do you define "debate" and "argument"? (and not Webster's definition, but your definition) And what is the difference between "debate" and "argument"?

You are contradicting yourself here...In one thread, you condone debating, while in another you codemn and discourage arguing. What's the difference?

Whatever we are doing has not contained personal attacks, so why stop? I am seeking clarification on some of your points, and you basically and subtly tell me to be quiet. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Did you really think posting what you posted was going to go without an argument or debate?
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

I'm sorry mama... I didn't mean to hurt you... I didn't mean to make you cry, but tonight I'm cleaning out my closet.

Sean

Thats too scary Sean, Im listening to that song right now.

One more time...

Let's stop it here ok?

If the language is not clear, I think the intent is, the content of this post has already been echoed from other parts of the forum by other individuals.

Please, treat your peers with respect, I've already had a couple of messages from members mentioning how intimidating it is to post in the forum. These people do want to participate and though they may not be uber-hackers like some, they would like to ask questions and learn.

Aki,

Thanks for your input...but I was respectively asking for clarification on some points that Teambldr made and I have a right to do that, don't I? I feel that Teambldr was not clear in many of his statements and what is the harm in me asking for clarification, huh?

If Teambldr is going to make points and if someone asks for clarification, that person should not be ridiculed or told to basically be quiet as you have done. I have a right raise questions and of course, it's Teambldr's right to ignore my questions.
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Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me

Unfortunately, this discussion has gotten out of hand despite the best efforts of many forum members. I'm locking this thread before it escalates any further, sorry to those who had anything more to contrinute.