I've just found out about a new plug-in that folks can get for their browsers that I'm not happy with at all. Right now it's only for IE4, but they say they are planning to make it available for Netscape 4 and IE5 soon. This may seem to be off-topic, but I'll get to the CGI stuff in a bit.

This new plug-in will allow users to write comments about your website. The comments are stored on their server, but are connected with the content in web pages. The owner of the website has no control whatsoever over these messages and people who have the plugin see the pages in an altered form.

To me, this is rather like writing comments in ink in a library book. Except that, if it was in a libary book, someone could at least block them out.

Now to my CGI question. It seems that this plugin ("Third Voice" is what it's called) uses the content on the web pages to associate the messages with the pages. I'm wondering if it would be able to associate the messages with content that's generated by a cgi script. Since I don't know much about how it works, I'm not sure. If anyone is interested in checking it out (although I hate to give them publicity), the site is at www.thirdvoice.com.

I think that I'll have to keep an eye on the site and see when they have the plugin for a browser that I have. When they do, I will have to visit every page of my site every day to make sure there aren't any messages there. The first day I find one, unless there's a way I can prevent more from being added, I will end my presence on the web.



------------------
JPD

Hello,

First of all, don't leave us alone on the Web: WE NEED YOU !

I've made a search on thirdvoice using deja.com and now i know how it works:

a copy of each page modified by a visitor is made on thirdvoice's server and the plug-in looks at the creation date and time of the currently requested page on the visited site. It pass always the last one to the browser: the modified one stored on thirdvoice's server if newer, the visited site one if newer.

So the only way to preserve your static pages is to rewrite them frequently. I suggest to change simply their size by adding hidden comments at the end of them, for example.

Cheers,
Germain

T'would be terrible to see JPDeni disappear alright, what would all the hapless souls trying to install dbMan do?

Anyway, if that's how ThirdVoice works, surely you could bar them from accessing your site, with threats of breach of copyright? Must look into this a little more...

adam

That is good info, Germinator. Thank you. Then it doesn't seem that they would be able to attach to an page that's created by cgi. That helps a lot.

I have found out a way to detect plug-ins by Javascript, but that it only works with Netscape and (maybe) IE5 -- not IE4. I was thinking of using a Javascript thingy to redirect anyone who had that plug-in. Won't work.

Regarding my threat to leave the web, even if I did, I'd be around here. I'd just pull off my websites.

A number of people I've talked to have suggested that I might be overreacting to this and they could be right. But most of what I have on the web is very sensitive, very emotional stuff. (My DBMan pages are a very small part of my overall web presence.) The people who come to visit most of my web pages are in a very vulnerable state and not very web-savvy. I can easily foresee a scenario when someone could be offended by something someone else wrote on my site, using Third Voice. The other thing is that part of my site is a memorial to my daughter who died. The thought keeps running through my head of someone coming in and vandalizing her grave. (Crazy emotional women!)

Adam, you may have a very good point. By their copying the web pages, they are infringing on copyright laws.

Thanks to both of you for your thoughts.

------------------
JPD

I had a look around at the site (shame on me!), and I think that threatening them with breach of copyright might be on dodgy ground actually. Yes, they are taking a copy of your webpage and storing it in a database, but since they're not actually displaying that page, they're not really breaching copyright. It'd be like suing Excite for spidering your page. Dodgy ground indeed.

The only way around it would possibly be to place a specific paragraph in your copyright statement barring Third Voice from spidering your page(s). And even then, would it hold up in court? And again we come back to the international status of the web, how would I, in Ireland, take them to court if it came down to it?

This also reminds me of the software that removes banner ads from webpages. Granted, banner ads can be annoying, but some of them are effective and even entertaining. And what do people like me, just about to open several portals, do about it? What can I tell my clients? And as an aside to that, I must admit that people like me rarely even see them anymore, so what *is* an effective advertising model on the web?

You've opened a can of worms there Carol...



adam

I guess this discussion has gone way beyond CGI/Perl programming, so we'd better bring it to a close.

I did find out that I can't check for plug-ins in IE4 without some really involved programming that I can't manage.

I am going to think of something so I can at least make a statement about it. (The old 60s radical. If you can't change it, protest it! )

Thanks much for your support.



------------------
JPD

I'll be drawing my placard...

Are you sure you can't check for plugins in IE4? I must have a poke around Dreamweaver and the web to check...

...and I did and you're right! Sorry for doubting you...

adam

[This message has been edited by dahamsta (edited June 09, 1999).]

Well there is a simple way to prevent this.

Use the deny,allow statement in your root .htacess file on your server.

<Limit GET POST>
Order deny,allow
deny from thereproxyserver.com
allow from all
</Limit>

Just replace thereproxyserver.com above with the 2nd level domain they are using to extract your pages to there server.

I don't know it off hand but just go use the plug-in and then check your server logs for what domain proxy is pulling the pages.

We did this with the program that removes your ads.

Then add or modify your access denied error page to say what ever you want.

Like;

Sorry your access to our site has been denied due to the fact blah blah blah. We would highly reccomend that you do not use blah blah blah fro the following reasons.

Blah Blah Blah

Rob

I should have thought of that!

*ashamed*

Nice one Rob.

adam

Cool! Thanks Rob. I will definitely give it a shot.


------------------
JPD