Um I'd like to know where you got that info from too, it is to do with a protein in the animals brain called a "prion".

The prions attach to cells of a similar kind and turn them into bad cells causing holes throughout the brain.

Here's a wonderful resource on the subject:

http://www.quackwatch.org/

Its a price thing everytime, consumers always want it cheaper, when they want it cheap they drive out the little guy and he is replaced by the big guy who doesn`t care so much and is protected from negativity towards him by his size and is also able to control the market and make demands on producers and governments.

When your local grocer got expensive or had bad produce the locals went elsewhere, the grocers business was hurt and he made changes, nowadays we buy from multi nationals who can ride any bad press until the public forgets (and thats pretty quick).

We need to realise that food is a luxury and it should be expensive for quality, if you want cheap you get cheap.. otherwise grow your own.

chmod

Wow! What a wonderful debate. I love a good arguement as long as it doesn't get personal...

My take on the grain/corn fed beef is that the corn makes the cows (your future hamburgers) bulk up faster and therefore they be taken to market sooner. The downside to this is that they are more succeptible to disease and have to have anti-biotics which in theory trickles down through the food chain. Grass fed cows take longer to fatten, but are generally healthier and require less medication, but take more resources to raise and are more expensive to raise.

It's my personal opinion that we humans will only be around for another 300 years or so. We are all dying, our lifestyles are killing us. Our air, our food and our water has been contaminated. How many people do you know have been diagnosed with cancer? (Personally - my dad, my sister, my mother) But then the other side of the debate is that without all of the modern technology they wouldn't have been successfully diagnosed and treated. It's kind of the chicken/egg thing.

It's easy to say that PVC=evil, but how may lives have been saved because of the use of plastics in modern medicine?

I just don't know...

ArmyAirForces:

Well, now I understand where you are coming from if you don't know the truth about Stephen Barrett and his quackbusters and where he is coming from. I reference the following articles to help you gain some knowledge about the source you provided.:

The 'Quackbuster' Debate - http://www.mercola.com/domains/ehealthynews.htm

Quackbusters - An excellent editorial about a really horrible organization who is out to stop the practice of any type of medicine that
does not conform to the typical drug-based approach.

What's Eating Stephen Barrett?
http://www.alternativemedicine.com/AMHome.asp?cn=Catalog&act=GetProduct&crt=ProductKey=2018&Style=/AMXSL/EssayDetail.xsl

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quote: I looked over your politically based propaganda and discounted it.

The articles I have presented are not politically based, but rather based on TRUTH.

The articles presented are from MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC knowledge and from those not influenced by politics and big corporations.



The truth and protecting people does not for the most part even come from politics until someone blows the whistle and they have no choice but to admit they are wrong.

How many people have to die before most drugs are taken off the market?

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The truth is apparently subjective when it comes to the acolytes of Mercola:

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercolasuit.html

I personally have nothing against so called "alternative medicine". I think for people who enjoy suffering from exotic "illnesses" or enjoy the process of "healing" themselves it's fine. Just as long as they don't ignore serious problems or proper treatments for them.

In the long run it might even be cheaper than paying a shrink.

Paul:

Here's one article regarding UK's mad cow.

Insecticides Cause Mad Cow Disease
http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/4/insecticides_mad_cow.htm

If you search mercola.com you will find several other related articles.

You are correct it has to do with prions, but the combination of insecticides and prions cause the disease.

quoted from article:

Latest experiments by Cambridge University prion specialist, David R. Brown, have shown that manganese bonds with prions. Other researchers work shows that prions in the bovine spine --along which insecticides are applied-- can be damaged by ICI's Phosmet organophosphate(OP) insecticide -causing the disease.

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Given your proselytism on behalf of the cult of alternative medicine it's only fair to describe your actions as politicking.

How many people have to fall for the canard of alternative medicine before critical thinking returns?

Hmm why do your posts always get personal :)

Why do you always post here?

Why do you ask so many questions?

They're the best answer for your questions.

Watts:

quote:
Grass fed cows take longer to fatten, but are generally healthier and require less medication, but take more resources to raise and are more expensive to raise.

Yes, it does take longer to fatten them up when being grass fed and no antibiotics would be needed. But how can eating grass which is readily available be cheaper than the cost of grain and antibiotics?

What is sad is that with the advancements of feedlots they have to kill the cattle within a short amount of time or they would die.

And for us Grassfed products are rich in all the fats now proven to be health-enhancing, but low in the fats that have been linked with disease. When they feed beef with grain they are removing the essential Omega fats which we can only get from the food we eat.

They are essentically removing the good fats out bodies need and replacing them with bad fats which will promote bad health and diseases. Sad but true!

These articled are related to that topic:

Health Benefits of Grassfed Animal Products
http://mercola.com/beef/health_benefits.htm

Scientifc Literature that Supports the Health Benefits Of Grass Fed Beef
http://mercola.com/beef/references.htm

Here's some interesting statistics:

Benefits of Grass Fed Beef
http://mercola.com/beef/benefits.htm

I found this article very interesting although very long it was educational.

Discover How Your Beef is Really Raised -- Part 1 of 4
http://creativehealth.netfirms.com/cattle1.shtml

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As far as I know, there is no clear pathway discovered as yet as to how mad cow appears or is triggered. The leading theory about the mechanism of how it acts in the brain is prions, which are simply protiens that have had their conformation changed in away that when it contacts another protien it changes the structure to mirror itself. It works similar to a virus but it's totally obviously not alive in any form. As well, I've heard that it can lie domant in a host for an extremely long time at which point, its trigger is still unknown. I wouldn't be surprised that the number of incidents are increased due to insecticides, however, I'd say pollution in general is a much more compelling reason along with the method the animals were being handled. (reusing the spare parts as feed allowing the disease to distribute further)

I'm not sure where I stand on the GM food debate, especially as I can see it having an incredible potential to help starving people. Take a look at how wheat came to be, breeders took advantage of genetic mutations in crops to get bigger and bigger wheat heads. (I believe it was due to a failed meiosis that the wheat doubled in the numbers of chromosones and usually that implies a much larger physical body)

I guess the big thing here is that the pace of breeding has suddenly been accelerated and we have less time to examine a new GMO's impact on the environment before it is released. With superhardy strains of plants, yep, that's a bit of a worry but I don't think the technology is evil because of it.

If I understand you correctly, then to fully dismiss so-called alternative medicine is extreme - throwing the baby out with the bath water. You'd be hard pressed to find any qualified and competent physicians (general practice and specialist), or medical associations that would agree with you. There is scientific peer reviewed research that does support some alternative medicines. And many mainstream current medical strategies originated from alternative medicine. And pharmacology is ripe with medicines that have roots in folk lore medicine. Alternative medicine has played a role in shaping mainstream medicine. Does that mean I have forsaken traditional medicine for alternative medicine? No. I still rely on traditional medicine - including regular visits to my family physician. But I do not ignore some of the benefits of alternative medicine - especially if I ever become seriously ill, and traditional medicine does not do enough or fails. I've seen enough people (five - unsuccessful heart bypass, stroke complications, brain cancer, AIDS, lung cancer) die when traditional medicine was unsuccessful. However, I'm not tossing out mainstream medicine. Health is too important to put on blinders, and completely ignore alternate treatment strategies. And what is alternative one day, could be scientifically proven mainstream the next. And each had has its share of costly failures, and successes.

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln

With Americans alone spending over $27 billion a year on alternative medicines and billions more being made off of the supplements market, the financial benefits are clear.

I do agree there have been clear and demonstrable advances made from the scientific study of old world remedies. We should pursue more and take advantage of whatever benefits they have to offer - after analysis through proven scientific methodology and medical testing.

My problem with the Alternative Medicine movement, is that it is a movement. It preys upon people at their weakest and most vulnerable states of mind & body.

I too have watched a dear friend die of cancer. When it was clear that the disease had progressed too far to be halted she began exploring "alternatives". If this had given her peace of mind and relief I would stand and profess the glories of alternative medicine. Instead she blew thousands of dollars on bogus homeopathic treatments, eventually traveled outside of the country (to Mexico) seeking other 'miraculous' treatments not available here in the US. The result, she died heartbroken, near broke, and in pain.

What little time we had left with her was stolen by the modern equivalent of the old travelling medicine man. And I'm still angry about it.

I agree, but the same can be said (albeit to a lesser degree) of the traditional medicine market where medicine has been commercialized - packaged like any other business, selling what ever the market will buy. Doctors driven my money, rather than the hypocritic oath. But again, I still put my faith in traditional medicine, but I do not rule out alternative medicine - which BTW is large in scope, and goes beyond the typical ones you describe, and the ones that get the bad press. For 'minor' ailments or routine health care, alternative medicine can be beneficial if used in good measure and responsibly. For majour ailments, then one should consult with their doctor - because as I said before, many (if not most) doctors are aware of many alternative medicine treatment regimes, and can make suggestions in addition to following your progress. My girlfriends brothers spouse has AIDS. He has had AIDS for 15 years now, and is virtually asymptomatic. He doesn't take AZT or any other AIDS drugs. He still sees his physician on a regular basis, but in addition to alternative medicine strategies including a special wholistic diet and fitness regime. He may be just lucky or predisposed to be symptom free, but such was not the case before when he did rely on AIDS drug treatments. And this is not uncommon among PWA as many have had similar success stories. I agree that there are many persons and corporations that spin traditional medicine like snake oil (and they should be hung out to dry). Perhaps what we need is for their industry to regulated. Regulated by professionals and government agencies, in cooperation with the medical associations.

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln

ArmyAirForces:

quote:
The truth is apparently subjective when it comes to the acolytes of Mercola:

The articles on mercola.com are extracted from major medical journals. This is not just related to alternative medicine, but rather to learn what information is out there and most importantly to me has been the scientific proof of the importance of proper eating to maintain our health.

There is a reason why doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death, and also why so many people in our society are obese. What we are being told is safe to eat and that drugs are safe to take are causing many illnesses.

I just really think it's important to keep informed so you can make educated choices based on fact from again medical and scientific evidence. Barrett is not a medical doctor as you have read.

Personally, the only way I have been able to deal with a chronic condition I deal with is to avoid doctors as their training for using drugs for everything would have made my condition much worse and caused me additional problems.

It's just sad that the drug industries write the medical textbooks and that so much of medicine is based on drugs being the fix for everything. Luckily this is changing and people are being given the options of safer alternatives.

Many of today's illnesses are due to the foods we eat, my concern is that although much of the food available is not healthy in itself, we need to help protect what food is left that can help to maintain our health.

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I don't think obesity is the fault of anyone other than the individual. I realise there are exceptions due to genetic variations etc, but if you eat burgers, fries, fatty foods do you really expect to say slim and trim?

The main cause of obesity is being a couch potato with a poor diet. Exercise and a good diet can normally cure it.

Americans AFAIK are the most obese in the world, they also happen to be the founders of fast food. Coincidence?

By your logic, i.e., doctors kill people and avoid all doctors - Barrett must be a genius as you state that he is not a medical doctor.

But since Dr. Barret has 35 years of practice, as a licensed psychiatrist, I suspect he is more than qualified to speak on 'quackery' and the 'alternative medicine' movement.

See para 21 H from Berrett V Mercola
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercolasuit.html

I thought you guys invented fast food, fish n chips (all that fried food)? We just perfected the drive through

But you are correct, too many American are obese. It's all that damn TV, consol games, and Internet surfing.

I keep a treadmill in my office to keep myself from going stir crazy and to get a little exercise in during the slow times.

>>
I thought you guys invented fast food, fish n chips (all that fried food)?
<<

Hehe, fish and chips isn't fast food, MacDonalds and Burger King....well that's a different story, you then imposed them on the rest of the world to try and drag us down to your level of health.

When you think of healthy people, I'm not sure the British come to mind . All that pasty skin!

Dan:

The keyword in our post is diet. Most doctors are not taught proper diet, and don't recommend it. They are taught to base treatments on drugs which have many side effects.

With cancer something as simple as removing sugar products from your diet can be of major importance due to cancer feeding on sugar.

It just seems really strange to me that doctors are not taught about proper diets as that is what fuels the human body. You would think that would be one of the first things to learn how the body works, and what we eat has major influence on our health.

Look at chemotherapy for instance .. that is a treatment that actually causes cancer. It totally destroys your immune system, which is the only means of the body to fight the cancer. Diet is definately essential to helping to build your immune system. This is not alternative medicine, but learning to properly fuel our bodies to prevent disease.

An expert on cancer and treatments:
http://mercola.com/article/cancer/cancer_options.htm


In reality drug based treatments is actually alternative ... others means of proper diet and non-drug based is traditional medicine.

As far as objections to GE food, I think the important issue here is that it should have been fully tested before being put into our food supply. And I want to see that happen. Our govenment is known for approving drugs and food additives and even after they are proven harmful, they remain due to industry influence.

And with our water supply, when our water does not meet the standards .. what to they do? They lower the standards rather than attempting to clean up our water.

With vaccines they have made a deal with the drug companies so that people can't be compensated due to the harmful effects. They claim they can't afford to make the vaccines and still pay for all the damage they cause. So we force vaccinations on babies, children and adults knowing the harmful effects and they accept no responsibility claiming you made the choice by accepting the vaccination. How often do doctors tell you that you have a choice whether to vaccinate your kids? They don't because they get kick-backs for each shot given. And the school systems also receive money out of the deal.

I think the sadest article I read over the past several months has been regarding the use of drugs for ADD/ADHD where in just 3 schools districts in I think it was Alabama or one of those southern states there are 30,000 kids being drugged .. this should be criminal. Why not take them off the foods which are causing their problems rather than keeping them on drugs that will effect the rest of their lives. The drug industry is not for the health of our society but for their profit ONLY.

Sorry, if i got carried away, but it really makes me angry that we get used as guinea pigs without our consent or having the option of making decisions based on truth.

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