Jul 15, 2002, 1:44 PM
Veteran (1104 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 1:44 PM
Post #2 of 24
Views: 17402
I would rather have seen him convicted on all counts. But if the plea bargain and 20 years in a federal prison were good enough for the prosecution - I guess it's okay.
It's just too bad his parents didn't smack some sense into him when they had the chance instead of coddling his every whim.
It's just too bad his parents didn't smack some sense into him when they had the chance instead of coddling his every whim.
Jul 15, 2002, 2:14 PM
Enthusiast (899 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 2:14 PM
Post #5 of 24
Views: 17406
I would personally like to B-t-h Slap his parents!
Then he should become someones girlfriend in prison named Big Mo for 20 years.
I think we did wrong by letting him off on a plea bargain. We already know everything that he can tell us and it sends a message to others that want to be anti american terrorists!
Then he should become someones girlfriend in prison named Big Mo for 20 years.
I think we did wrong by letting him off on a plea bargain. We already know everything that he can tell us and it sends a message to others that want to be anti american terrorists!
Jul 15, 2002, 2:25 PM
Enthusiast (899 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 2:25 PM
Post #8 of 24
Views: 17226
We have estimated that over 5000 operatives live in the US now.
One thing the BinDover better read is the history books. We are one mean bear when awoke. The last thing he wants is to create a unified spirit in the US. If he does (and actually he is well on the way to doing just that) he will be dead. Even if no other nation stands with us, we will take him and all of his operatives out. No questions. No remorse for our actions and no thoughts for those who harbor them.
One thing the BinDover better read is the history books. We are one mean bear when awoke. The last thing he wants is to create a unified spirit in the US. If he does (and actually he is well on the way to doing just that) he will be dead. Even if no other nation stands with us, we will take him and all of his operatives out. No questions. No remorse for our actions and no thoughts for those who harbor them.
Jul 15, 2002, 2:38 PM
Veteran (1104 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 2:38 PM
Post #10 of 24
Views: 17492
Well the defense position was that he just got overtaken by history. However, it's pretty clear he joined the Taliban of his own initiative.
You can read the initial indictment against him which contains a good collection of facts and a timeline on the WashingtonPost web site:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...A6499-2002Jul15.html
And for some across the pond balance:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/..._1779000/1779455.stm
You can read the initial indictment against him which contains a good collection of facts and a timeline on the WashingtonPost web site:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...A6499-2002Jul15.html
And for some across the pond balance:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/..._1779000/1779455.stm
Jul 15, 2002, 2:39 PM
Staff / Moderator (429 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 2:39 PM
Post #12 of 24
Views: 17258
Hmmm... if that's the case, it's hard to say. I'd opt for the stern but somewhat lenient approach. It's hard not to be swept into a flurry when you have no other person saying otherwise. It happened all around the world. My father was a prisonner in a japanese internment camp and people just went along with it. Do we punish the people who just went with the flow? If so how? To me, this American Taliban seems almost like a token sacrifice to applease the public and to demonstrate what happens for treachery.
And I think Bin Laden was successful in one thing, even if he didn't read his history books. We have all lost a bit of our freedom and sense of security. We're all jumpy now, just recently in Canada a Jewish man was stabbed and concerns were raised that it was racially motivated.
By destroying the land the culprit lives in, doesn't necessarily mean that they'll never attack again. It makes life hard for the average citizen there, and I think it will just force those to who want to be heard to become more desperate.
This is just my 5minute opinion based on what I know right now, of course
And I think Bin Laden was successful in one thing, even if he didn't read his history books. We have all lost a bit of our freedom and sense of security. We're all jumpy now, just recently in Canada a Jewish man was stabbed and concerns were raised that it was racially motivated.
By destroying the land the culprit lives in, doesn't necessarily mean that they'll never attack again. It makes life hard for the average citizen there, and I think it will just force those to who want to be heard to become more desperate.
This is just my 5minute opinion based on what I know right now, of course
Jul 15, 2002, 2:47 PM
Veteran (1104 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 2:47 PM
Post #14 of 24
Views: 17253
How could the lives of the average citizen have gone any more desperate than under the Taliban?
No personal freedoms, no religious freedoms, a government that was recognized by only two other countries - Pakistan and one of the Gulf states. Not even the UN recognized the Taliban.
And let's not forget that large portions of the population were/are unable to feed themselves, dependent instead on NGO's to bring in food.
Now with a comparably stable government, and one that's recognized by the international community, Afghanistan has a chance.
No personal freedoms, no religious freedoms, a government that was recognized by only two other countries - Pakistan and one of the Gulf states. Not even the UN recognized the Taliban.
And let's not forget that large portions of the population were/are unable to feed themselves, dependent instead on NGO's to bring in food.
Now with a comparably stable government, and one that's recognized by the international community, Afghanistan has a chance.
Jul 15, 2002, 2:53 PM
Enthusiast (899 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 2:53 PM
Post #16 of 24
Views: 17164
All countries in their (prior) state would be a haven for unrest and terrorists.
And all the countries that are recognized that are extreme in their views curse the US till it is time to get our money. Then they smile and take it without any thought of repayment or thanks.
And all the countries that are recognized that are extreme in their views curse the US till it is time to get our money. Then they smile and take it without any thought of repayment or thanks.
Jul 15, 2002, 3:01 PM
Staff / Moderator (429 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 3:01 PM
Post #17 of 24
Views: 17279
True, many people in Afghanistan probably have a better chance now. I forgot about the conditions they were in.
It's also not the average citizen we worry about, we worry for them but the worry about comes from those individuals who are desperate enough to prove something that they will take extreme measures to push something.
What I'm trying to say more was that everything that his happening right now is complicated.
It's also not the average citizen we worry about, we worry for them but the worry about comes from those individuals who are desperate enough to prove something that they will take extreme measures to push something.
What I'm trying to say more was that everything that his happening right now is complicated.
Jul 15, 2002, 3:11 PM
Veteran (1104 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 3:11 PM
Post #19 of 24
Views: 17199
I think you have him confused with a group of christian missionaries that were in Afghanistan and held prisoner by the Taliban at the start of the operations after Sept 11. They were held as bargaining chips but eventually freed.
John Walker Lindh is the punk that was among a group of Taliban/al Qaeda fighters captured up north and imprisoned at Mazar-e Sharif. They revolted. In the process a USGOV employee, Mike Spann, and a number of our anti-taliban allies were killed.
Walker Lindh was amongst a group of die hards that refused to surrender. After they gave up, it was discovered that he was an American.
-Scott
John Walker Lindh is the punk that was among a group of Taliban/al Qaeda fighters captured up north and imprisoned at Mazar-e Sharif. They revolted. In the process a USGOV employee, Mike Spann, and a number of our anti-taliban allies were killed.
Walker Lindh was amongst a group of die hards that refused to surrender. After they gave up, it was discovered that he was an American.
-Scott
Last edited by:
ArmyAirForces: Jul 15, 2002, 3:14 PM
Jul 15, 2002, 3:30 PM
Veteran (1104 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 3:30 PM
Post #20 of 24
Views: 17195
I think we should worry about the average citizens, at least worry about their lot in life - and do our best to give them the tools they need to rebuild a functioning country.
But you're speaking of those on the fringes that we have to worry about doing us harm. Those people will always exist, their reasons may vary.
When they take over a country, or find safe refuge in other States from which to conduct their operations - we must deny that to them in my opinion.
But you're speaking of those on the fringes that we have to worry about doing us harm. Those people will always exist, their reasons may vary.
When they take over a country, or find safe refuge in other States from which to conduct their operations - we must deny that to them in my opinion.
Jul 15, 2002, 5:40 PM
Veteran (19537 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 5:40 PM
Post #22 of 24
Views: 17281
>>
They believe that they will be in a better place (along with their families) in heaven because of their deeds.
It is whacky but that is what they believe.
<<
Not sure it's heaven :)
But anyway what I meant was that Bin Laden obviously isn't willing to die as he has only sent out other people to do his dirty work...why the hell didn't he go and fly a plane into New York?
They believe that they will be in a better place (along with their families) in heaven because of their deeds.
It is whacky but that is what they believe.
<<
Not sure it's heaven :)
But anyway what I meant was that Bin Laden obviously isn't willing to die as he has only sent out other people to do his dirty work...why the hell didn't he go and fly a plane into New York?
Jul 15, 2002, 5:58 PM
Staff / Moderator (429 posts)
Jul 15, 2002, 5:58 PM
Post #23 of 24
Views: 17290
In the past, yeah, I'd say he should of piloted one of those planes. But at the same time, he was a known criminal, if anyone caught a whiff of him on the states his entire plan would be unraveled.
But now, after so many months of fighting, if he still lives and makes an appearance it would have a strong moral impact on "his troops". His survival would take a symbolic significance.
But now, after so many months of fighting, if he still lives and makes an appearance it would have a strong moral impact on "his troops". His survival would take a symbolic significance.