Hello Mr. Pataki!
www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/forum/resources/Forum9/HTML/000080.html
You wrote earlier, this I debate here further...
There are two ways or parts to say :
1 - Category Alternates One is the possibility of submitting links in one main category and having a second alternative possibility of assigning into a second category.
2 - Multiple CategoriesSecond is to insert the link in two categories or Multiple Categories.
Both seems confusing and eventually do the same. Funny. Or it is a wrong way to describe. But I tried to do this only to descriminate what is a way in describing the difference in what I think Links SQL has to offer and its inherrent limitation.
Category Alternates
Studying the present design of Links SQL it offeres an alternate possibility to insert one more link in to anathor category. By doing so in the main links table there is only one category number inserted and the alternate category number is inserted into anathor table.
Multiple Categories
In such a concept the categories are inserted into the same table of links at the same time.
Let us give an example. Subject categories and Geographic categories.
In the system of Category Alternates one has to decide which is a priority, and lets say Geographic categories are the priorities. So this goes into the main Links table. Then Subject categories goes into the Categoey Alternates.
In the system of Multiple Categories Both the categories goes into the Links table at the same time. Multiple Categories to me means both are main categories. In both the system eventually it will be the same thing but the end result of the story is its basic difference in the following points.
A - The manner how they are submitted.
B - The manner how they are in use, for add, modify, admin, etc.
C - The way how they could help in import - export regarding its growth.
Explaining further, lets say how they are added. In Alternates they would simply be chosen from a list of all categories in one table and then one can insert from the same table and put one more category into anathor table of alternates. So eventually one link is inserted into two categories. When we see this process of how this is or could be done in reality a surfer is offered in the add form two fields. both this foeld have the same list of categories!!! So this list cannot be sorted out because it is produced from the same table of category. It is therefore I define it as Categories Alternates as the table of category remains the same and only an alternative possibility is offered to the surfer by inserting one more link. So what happens in the other system...
Multiple Categories means to me that a multiple choice of set of categories are offered to the surfer in the add form. So how this can be done. Then one needs two tables to do this so that add.cgi could produce two set of listings from two different tables of categories. They could be also more number of tables of categories! So a surfer submits directly into two real seperated categories into the database.
What does it mean by the term medium to Large directories? To me it means a directory having more then 1,00,000 links at least as a kind of min. start of the definition. Lets say or assume one has a project in mind with 2,00,000 links to talk about. So this number of links has to be somehow distributed somehow into different categories so that they are reasonably sorted somehow. So if I have 1000 categories incliding its sub-categories they I will have on an average 200 links in every category. (This will never be the case, ofcourse, its just an assumtion). Therefore I will have 20 pages of 10 Links per page. The visitors will have to go through all this if they do not want to go through search system. Yahoo avoids this very carefully, as it said in a news. Yahoo wants to categorize every links in its right place and keep on sub-categorization further untill enough value it reached to assign a category value to that perticular link. They said it on www.internet.com some tims ago. Makes sense.
What if I have 2,000 links? I will see all of them in add form! Unless one have to go to that perticular area of submission and capture the category from that page, which links does extremely well. But what will happen to admin? When I have two fields of categories each 2,000 links, they will be 4,000 links loaded per link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alex say use category ID instead. This is not practical.
Therefore what is required is a table selection routine. When the scripts goes through cat_list routine, if a subroutine is developed that it selects a table from the global array seems perfect. This means in the field of subject category it produces a list of those relevant categories and in the field of geographic categories it produces those relevant listing inthe popup field of the add/modify/admin area. The categories are sorted out from the tables. This reduces load and unnecessary transfer occupy less time of every one, surfer or admin in every situation. For e.g., to repeat, .....
If I have 2,000 categories then.........
Category Alternates system which is now in the Links SQL will produce 4,000 categories of two fields (category + alternate category) in the listing of every link. If the admin page has ten links to work or validate per page, then simply for this 40,000 listing of categories will be downloaded for this page of admin!!!
If I receive 200 Links request per day then to validate 200 links per day, I will have to sit down in front of the computer and would be forced to download as below :
200 Links to validate per day
2,000 categories in one table category
2 fields of categories alternates.
4,000 listing of categories to be downloaded per link of those two alternate categories.
4,000 categories listing X 200 Links = 8,00,000 listings of categories per day to download for the admin.
So in a nutshell 8,00,000 listings of categories to be downloaded for the admin and also 8,00,000 listing of categories for all those who wanted to insert or submit links per day = 1,600,000 = 1,6 Millions listing transfer per day only due to the category being only in one table. With this traffic of per day 200 links submission per month 1,600,000 X 30 days = 48,000,000 = 48 Millions listings being transfered per month only this categories listings table problem. If I calculate the price of telephone bills of the shity german telekom then it would ammount to atleast $50-$100 per month to handle those from the admin, just the transfer time. What about the energy and the life costs of the admin? This is related to the design of how the Links SQL selects and produces the list of categories! Here, the category alternate is shown with the fonts -2 that has to be activated to be able to show a proper field, ofcourse. Otherwise one has to control and do this twice as bad. Because, everytime, one has to get in to category alternate to check what is being filled in there and download the rest of the html data for all those links, which could only be worse!!!
This has been argued in earlier threads. Alex says that this is a custom demand by me and he wants money for it. I think it is a related to its basic programming logic regarding its target to functions what the programing should do and I seriously beleive that Alex should come-up with an upgrade immediately. This upgrade ofcourse will help me immediately but also every other liscenced user who is trying to setup their database in regards to MySQL tables. Later on it would be difficult to change when we see how and its consequences in relation to its numbers in the categories table or in links table etc. Ones a person takes a direction and starts later it would be a volume of energy to change and re-categorize everything.
One of the most important point. Does Links SQL consider the possibilities of growth in terms of categories? More you have categories more difficult it is going to be! Therefore, instead of considering further development in terms of producing web-pages on-the-fly as it says on the mainpage, like a good salesman, I would suggest that if this point is considered as a priority would be the best. This will help all the links SQL users and just not me. I have to come-up and say this because it affects me the most. But there may be so many how wants this possibility in future and also who are possibily using it.
Lets us see otherwise. Tell me Alex, that you do not agree at all to this point. Tell me that you will never consider to develop this area. Then I will take a decision further. I do not think this is a custom requirement and
will never have an intention of paying to you for it, nor do I have enough for myself. As you said you are willing to develop a special module for the project, this may be helpful when there is some money coming in and there is a real requirement of developing a seperate module which is also specific to new concepts and design of specific services, but now regarding this area I do not have the slightest doubt that this is a not custom requirement and it is undebatly a thing that needs an urgent upgrading. Its not a modification but an upgrade in the interest of everyone, yours as a seller and a designer and ours as users, as it reduces the overloads on the servers + costs. Also I do not have the energy to come here and discuss this matter over and over again. Had it been a modification, or a new feauture, you have and are doing this for the interest of everyone, especially of the program Links SQL in general.
Therefore what is possible. A simple table select sub-routine thats prevents a duplicate disply of categories everywhere through a global defined array.
This question I have debated several times and there has been only negative or neutral response. There are no users who has here the capicity to develop mods on Links SQL. The entire further development is somehow blocked or is not in the manner what one sees it could be as a wish. Its only you who is active to bring more mods and features. This is again dependent on the sale of the script. Moreover things like this I do not think I can develop any modification like this nor there is anybody here who can. So one is kind of dependent on what is offered and what is there. They are all nice and good but one needs something more. Everyone. To run a website. I know Alex, you are supporting this forum more then anywhere else. This is great. You have supported me earlier for this installation problems which was very helpful. But now this upgrade is really important. Earlier I have posted this problem for your support so that atleast I could help myself. But it does not work.
Also, for anyone debating further on this topic, please try to see this point as in a broad perspective and not just if it affects you or not. Not just simple war of words for the sake of a debate as it has happened earlier.
There are not many programs on the internet similar to Links SQL and therefore it could be one of the best programs. It should never ever be the case like that of mine, that one buys a product with a lot of expectations, joy, respect on the programming, love on its features but ends up in a great disappointment and dissatisfation due to its inherrent limitations that is hard for novices like me to further make a project out of it. Also if such an upgrade is not done, then people who are having a similar denmands will have to consider twice to buy this product. Had I known this earlier, I MYSELF WOULD HAVE THOUGHT TWICE IF AT ALL I SHOULD BUY THIS OR NOT. I was one of the first to buy it, even before the demo. As a result, I cannot even use it and the basic installation is hanging on the internet doing nothing. I cannot go forward. No support from you or anyone else.
[This message has been edited by rajani (edited August 29, 1999).]
www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/forum/resources/Forum9/HTML/000080.html
You wrote earlier, this I debate here further...
Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "multi-categories"...There are two ways or parts to say :
1 - Category Alternates One is the possibility of submitting links in one main category and having a second alternative possibility of assigning into a second category.
2 - Multiple CategoriesSecond is to insert the link in two categories or Multiple Categories.
Both seems confusing and eventually do the same. Funny. Or it is a wrong way to describe. But I tried to do this only to descriminate what is a way in describing the difference in what I think Links SQL has to offer and its inherrent limitation.
Category Alternates
Studying the present design of Links SQL it offeres an alternate possibility to insert one more link in to anathor category. By doing so in the main links table there is only one category number inserted and the alternate category number is inserted into anathor table.
Multiple Categories
In such a concept the categories are inserted into the same table of links at the same time.
Let us give an example. Subject categories and Geographic categories.
In the system of Category Alternates one has to decide which is a priority, and lets say Geographic categories are the priorities. So this goes into the main Links table. Then Subject categories goes into the Categoey Alternates.
In the system of Multiple Categories Both the categories goes into the Links table at the same time. Multiple Categories to me means both are main categories. In both the system eventually it will be the same thing but the end result of the story is its basic difference in the following points.
A - The manner how they are submitted.
B - The manner how they are in use, for add, modify, admin, etc.
C - The way how they could help in import - export regarding its growth.
Explaining further, lets say how they are added. In Alternates they would simply be chosen from a list of all categories in one table and then one can insert from the same table and put one more category into anathor table of alternates. So eventually one link is inserted into two categories. When we see this process of how this is or could be done in reality a surfer is offered in the add form two fields. both this foeld have the same list of categories!!! So this list cannot be sorted out because it is produced from the same table of category. It is therefore I define it as Categories Alternates as the table of category remains the same and only an alternative possibility is offered to the surfer by inserting one more link. So what happens in the other system...
Multiple Categories means to me that a multiple choice of set of categories are offered to the surfer in the add form. So how this can be done. Then one needs two tables to do this so that add.cgi could produce two set of listings from two different tables of categories. They could be also more number of tables of categories! So a surfer submits directly into two real seperated categories into the database.
What does it mean by the term medium to Large directories? To me it means a directory having more then 1,00,000 links at least as a kind of min. start of the definition. Lets say or assume one has a project in mind with 2,00,000 links to talk about. So this number of links has to be somehow distributed somehow into different categories so that they are reasonably sorted somehow. So if I have 1000 categories incliding its sub-categories they I will have on an average 200 links in every category. (This will never be the case, ofcourse, its just an assumtion). Therefore I will have 20 pages of 10 Links per page. The visitors will have to go through all this if they do not want to go through search system. Yahoo avoids this very carefully, as it said in a news. Yahoo wants to categorize every links in its right place and keep on sub-categorization further untill enough value it reached to assign a category value to that perticular link. They said it on www.internet.com some tims ago. Makes sense.
What if I have 2,000 links? I will see all of them in add form! Unless one have to go to that perticular area of submission and capture the category from that page, which links does extremely well. But what will happen to admin? When I have two fields of categories each 2,000 links, they will be 4,000 links loaded per link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alex say use category ID instead. This is not practical.
Therefore what is required is a table selection routine. When the scripts goes through cat_list routine, if a subroutine is developed that it selects a table from the global array seems perfect. This means in the field of subject category it produces a list of those relevant categories and in the field of geographic categories it produces those relevant listing inthe popup field of the add/modify/admin area. The categories are sorted out from the tables. This reduces load and unnecessary transfer occupy less time of every one, surfer or admin in every situation. For e.g., to repeat, .....
If I have 2,000 categories then.........
Category Alternates system which is now in the Links SQL will produce 4,000 categories of two fields (category + alternate category) in the listing of every link. If the admin page has ten links to work or validate per page, then simply for this 40,000 listing of categories will be downloaded for this page of admin!!!
If I receive 200 Links request per day then to validate 200 links per day, I will have to sit down in front of the computer and would be forced to download as below :
200 Links to validate per day
2,000 categories in one table category
2 fields of categories alternates.
4,000 listing of categories to be downloaded per link of those two alternate categories.
4,000 categories listing X 200 Links = 8,00,000 listings of categories per day to download for the admin.
So in a nutshell 8,00,000 listings of categories to be downloaded for the admin and also 8,00,000 listing of categories for all those who wanted to insert or submit links per day = 1,600,000 = 1,6 Millions listing transfer per day only due to the category being only in one table. With this traffic of per day 200 links submission per month 1,600,000 X 30 days = 48,000,000 = 48 Millions listings being transfered per month only this categories listings table problem. If I calculate the price of telephone bills of the shity german telekom then it would ammount to atleast $50-$100 per month to handle those from the admin, just the transfer time. What about the energy and the life costs of the admin? This is related to the design of how the Links SQL selects and produces the list of categories! Here, the category alternate is shown with the fonts -2 that has to be activated to be able to show a proper field, ofcourse. Otherwise one has to control and do this twice as bad. Because, everytime, one has to get in to category alternate to check what is being filled in there and download the rest of the html data for all those links, which could only be worse!!!
This has been argued in earlier threads. Alex says that this is a custom demand by me and he wants money for it. I think it is a related to its basic programming logic regarding its target to functions what the programing should do and I seriously beleive that Alex should come-up with an upgrade immediately. This upgrade ofcourse will help me immediately but also every other liscenced user who is trying to setup their database in regards to MySQL tables. Later on it would be difficult to change when we see how and its consequences in relation to its numbers in the categories table or in links table etc. Ones a person takes a direction and starts later it would be a volume of energy to change and re-categorize everything.
One of the most important point. Does Links SQL consider the possibilities of growth in terms of categories? More you have categories more difficult it is going to be! Therefore, instead of considering further development in terms of producing web-pages on-the-fly as it says on the mainpage, like a good salesman, I would suggest that if this point is considered as a priority would be the best. This will help all the links SQL users and just not me. I have to come-up and say this because it affects me the most. But there may be so many how wants this possibility in future and also who are possibily using it.
Lets us see otherwise. Tell me Alex, that you do not agree at all to this point. Tell me that you will never consider to develop this area. Then I will take a decision further. I do not think this is a custom requirement and
will never have an intention of paying to you for it, nor do I have enough for myself. As you said you are willing to develop a special module for the project, this may be helpful when there is some money coming in and there is a real requirement of developing a seperate module which is also specific to new concepts and design of specific services, but now regarding this area I do not have the slightest doubt that this is a not custom requirement and it is undebatly a thing that needs an urgent upgrading. Its not a modification but an upgrade in the interest of everyone, yours as a seller and a designer and ours as users, as it reduces the overloads on the servers + costs. Also I do not have the energy to come here and discuss this matter over and over again. Had it been a modification, or a new feauture, you have and are doing this for the interest of everyone, especially of the program Links SQL in general.
Therefore what is possible. A simple table select sub-routine thats prevents a duplicate disply of categories everywhere through a global defined array.
This question I have debated several times and there has been only negative or neutral response. There are no users who has here the capicity to develop mods on Links SQL. The entire further development is somehow blocked or is not in the manner what one sees it could be as a wish. Its only you who is active to bring more mods and features. This is again dependent on the sale of the script. Moreover things like this I do not think I can develop any modification like this nor there is anybody here who can. So one is kind of dependent on what is offered and what is there. They are all nice and good but one needs something more. Everyone. To run a website. I know Alex, you are supporting this forum more then anywhere else. This is great. You have supported me earlier for this installation problems which was very helpful. But now this upgrade is really important. Earlier I have posted this problem for your support so that atleast I could help myself. But it does not work.
Also, for anyone debating further on this topic, please try to see this point as in a broad perspective and not just if it affects you or not. Not just simple war of words for the sake of a debate as it has happened earlier.
There are not many programs on the internet similar to Links SQL and therefore it could be one of the best programs. It should never ever be the case like that of mine, that one buys a product with a lot of expectations, joy, respect on the programming, love on its features but ends up in a great disappointment and dissatisfation due to its inherrent limitations that is hard for novices like me to further make a project out of it. Also if such an upgrade is not done, then people who are having a similar denmands will have to consider twice to buy this product. Had I known this earlier, I MYSELF WOULD HAVE THOUGHT TWICE IF AT ALL I SHOULD BUY THIS OR NOT. I was one of the first to buy it, even before the demo. As a result, I cannot even use it and the basic installation is hanging on the internet doing nothing. I cannot go forward. No support from you or anyone else.
[This message has been edited by rajani (edited August 29, 1999).]
Debate : Multiple categories ./. Categories Alternates :