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Web Hosting
Hi There,

After reviewing Gossamer Mail I am pretty sure that I would like to use it for my site. The question I have is: Do I require a dedicated server, or can a regular hosting account work for this?

I was told that Gossamer Threads will not be offering hosting for several months. I would like to launch free mail by the end of this month. What 3rd party would you suggest I use for hosting? Will a Valueweb or Interland acct do? Or do I need something more advanced? I would appreciate it if you could point me in the direction of a reliable quality host. I am willing to pay up to $100/month if necessary.


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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
I'm going to get off the soapbox (since it's in flames) but $100/month won't cover a dedicated server, nor does it cover the resources that even a fairly active Links SQL site consumes.

Unless you know your ISP, and they are willing to give you the excess bandwidth and CPU they may have, you are looking at a MINIMUM of $250/month RESOURCES for a Links SQL (or even 2.0) site. Beyond that, if you get busy, or want to offer more, add a lot of cpu intensive scripts, etc, you are in the $450+ range.

Alex has a bunch of plans going on, maybe to cut some of those costs with shared resources, but I've looked at the costs of setting up hosting, and dedicated hosting starts at a minimum of about $450 for the resources even a moderate site needs, and $600 for more realistic.

I've priced dedicated servers at a dozen or so ISP's (those who at least look like they could reasonably provide what they are claiming to sell) and the prices ranged from about $500, to over $1700 for a dedicated server.

Is there a difference?? Probably. At $500 unless the ISP has loads of excess they just want to get something for, you are going to be sharing pipes, and probably have a 'strained' situation on last year's Intel box. At $1700 you have your own 10 MBPs connection on a 100mbps connection and a Solaris/Sun server with enough power to never notice the load.

One of the things I'm going to do once I have a bit of time, is post a comparason of "features" and costs for some of the larger webhosts. From that, you'll be able to judge ifyour local or "new" ISP stacks up.

This is an issue that I really should have a stock URL to point to. I know I can get snappy about it, and I don't mean to here. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You can't make millions with a $100 server. The stock market is showing that all the craziness of the past 2-3 years is over. Reality has set in. People want to see their money back, not empty promises of worthless stock. I really feel sorry for all the people who see their "millions" disapper into less than they invested at the start. It's going to hurt. Big time. If you had said $1000/month, You can find a wealth of ISP's offering pretty good to go service in the $700-$900 range per month. But, my feeling is at that point, an extra $100 or $200 can give you a lot more from a premium ISP.

I value my time at a minimum of $125/hour. Over the past year, my ISP used up less than an hour of that time with problems. Over the previous 6+ years, I could have fed a small 3rd world country on what my ISP's consumed in my time and agrevation each year (and on some I was paying more per month than I am now!)

Robert S. Pataki, MD
President, PUGDOG Enterprises, Inc.

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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
In the meantime, I sell dedicated servers that will do the job for $195.00 per month (with FREE mySQL capability coming soon) and virtual servers between $10-$100 per month. See http://www.orphanage.com/ for details. I know, this isn't a place for ads but I had to reply based on the amounts you were saying were needed for dedicated servers. And, of course, you are right -- for almost everywhere else.

- Bobsie

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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
I don't expect to have more then 3 - 5,000 users. I don't see how that could possibly require a server from $500-$1000. How is that possible? I don't see how you could make even close to your investment back through the increased traffic or ad sales.. Are you sure that that much resources are required for a small site?


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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
You asked about a dedicated server. That means you have the machine, the physical hardware, all to yourself. A webserver handling traffic 24 hours a day needs more to it than your standard desktop. The more you expect this server to do, the more you need to invest in it in hardware and thus money. Just look at the prices from Dell, Compaq, HP etc for "servers" (I'm not even throwing SUN in to this).

If you have the server all to your self, you have to pay for ALL of it, plus the resources -- electricity, storage, bandwidth, support, air conditioning, etc -- that it uses. On top of that, if you expect a monthly payment, you are paying interest and other charges on the lease of that server.

A dedicated server divides that cost up among several (often as many 200 or more) people/web-sites. To try to put 200 Links sites on any generally available hardware is going to be an effort in futility. Even a mid-powered SUN workgroup server is going to start to show performance problems with 10+ active sites.

You can't just pick a number out of the air and say "I want to run a site that consumes $400 of resources in hadware and bandwidth and support costs, but I only want to pay $100."

What happens, is sites that do that "over book" like the air lines, and they hope that of the 200 users they put on a machine NO ONE will use any any resources. If any one site (or heaven help more than 1 site) start to use resources -- CGI, bandwidth, etc) that site kills off everyone elses site.

That's where the stories of Hypermart et al come from. Free hosts are not out there to give you unlimited resources (cpu, disk, bandwidth) in excess of what they are making a good advertising return on. One static page serving a banner is a lot "cheaper" than the same dynamic page serving the banner, and if the dynamic pages are "pass through" pages, the odds of banner clicks and thus sales are decreased making such a site even less attractive to a free host....

The story goes on .... :)

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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
Haven't seen you in my stomping grounds in awhle :) How are you?

Can you explain what you offer, and what the user gets? People are having a hard time finding servers -- dedicated or otherwise -- in the $200 range. If you offer one, I'm sure they'll be interested.

Alex had posted numbers that were in line with all the research and shopping around I've done over the past year. Our numbers are actually on the low side of the ranges that guarantee the performance/resources the user is purchasing.

Answering a posters question with hard information is not an unsolicited posting.

I wonder if it might not be an idea to post the minimum requirements for a Links SQL site (not the bare bones, but the working minimum) and see what various web providers will charge for that. I've added it to the end of my list, I should get to it sometime about the year 2010. <G>

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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
I am using rackspace.com for a long time. They have pretty good services. My server got over 150 GB traffic per month. It costs me around $800 per month with 2 dedicated servers. I think it's ok for me for the time begin.

If you don't expected too many webmail users, you might try everyone.net. They offer free email services to co-brand with your site and with a 50% to 50% ads share with you.


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Re: Web Hosting In reply to
I'm fine (now) but have been ill as have members of my family. I've been busy visiting sick relatives (all who live out of town/state) and have been overwhelmed with my work load other than that. Now I'm trying to sell my home and buy another. Busy, busy, busy.

Anyway, here are the specs on the Dedicated Servers my company sells (leases), as it stands right now:

Standard Features ($195 per month, $250 one-time, non-refundable setup):
AMD-K6 450Mhz 3D (Intel compatible) CPU
128mb RAM (Upgradable - see Options below)
Linux (Slackware) OS
Apache Web Server
ProFTP Server
Perl v5.00503
Java (JDK 1.1.7)
Maintained in a secured facility
Monitored 24 hours daily, 7 days a week
Connected to uninterruptable power supply (UPS) systems.
Multiple redundant connections to InterNAP
for high-speed and reliable data transfers.
4 Gigabytes of /home Space (Upgradable - see Options below)
Virtual Domain Name (www.yourdomain.xxx)
Shell and Private FTP Accounts
CGI Directory w/14 pre-installed scripts
CGIWrap available
C, Perl, and other language capability
Java, Shockwave, Server-side Includes, Image Maps
Log File Access (access_log {combined}, error_log, ftp_log)
Logs archived monthly, kept online for 6 months (or less if desired)
Daily Statistics (Webalizer)
Permanent IP Number (one) (Upgradable - see Options below)
Virtual Root FTP Server (Anonymous FTP)
Virtual POP3/SMTP Server with:
Unlimited Mailboxes (Web-based Interface to setup, delete, etc.)
Unlimited Aliases
Unlimited Autoresponders
No aliases file needed except for complex program pipes (i.e., Majordomo)
Full control over email redirection via a simple .redirect file
Majordomo Mailing List(s)
SSL (Secure Server)
Use your Digital Certificate or Ours
Generous Bandwidth (25gb per month) (Upgradable - see Options below)
Daily Backups (7 day archive)
Technical Support via email (telephone support in emergency situations)
Email responded to in a very timely manner
Upgrade Options:
Microsoft Frontpage Extensions (Free upon request)
Monthly Web Site Promotion (Free upon request)
Additional IP numbers ($4 each per month more)
Additional Bandwidth ($10 per gb/month more)
/home Space Upgrades:
6gb ($15 per month more)
10gb ($35 per month more)
20gb ($75 per month more)
Memory Upgrades:
256mb ($60 per month more)
384mb ($95 per month more)
512mb ($120 per month more)
Coming Soon:
PHP3 Capability (Free)
mySQL Capability (Free)
RealServer Streaming Capability (Pricing Not Determined)
Listar Mailing List (to replace Majordomo or coexist with it)
I am constantly looking for new ways to make these servers more beneficial and cost effective, so things are subject to change. For example, I am looking into having CPU Upgrades (faster speeds) available as well as the possibility of having true Intel (Athlon and Pentium III) CPUs at various speeds. Of course, they would be higher priced because, frankly, they just cost more to begin with. I am striving to keep the costs as low as possible though.

Okay, enough horn tooting about my Dedicated Servers. If anyone is interested, they can visit the web site at http://[b]www.orphanage.com/[/b]. Or, send me private mail here or at hostmaster@orphanage.com if you have more questions.

- Bobsie