Gossamer Forum
Home : Products : Gossamer Links : Pre Sales :

Win2K Server and MySQL

Quote Reply
Win2K Server and MySQL
I'm running a Win2K server that presently doesn't have a SQL database.

I'm considering both the Links product and the Mail product. I'd like the performance of a SQL database for Links (and in any case, I'm guessing that Mail requires it).

I don't want to purchase the VERY expensive MS SQL product (over $5,000) for my server. Can I install a free SQL database on the server, such as MySQL? If so, where can I learn more about doing so?

Thank you.

Stephen C. Nill

Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
There is a binary version of MySQL available for WINdoze servers...go to http://www.mysql.com for more info.

Although Perl on windoze servers is a resource hog.

Regards,

Eliot Lee
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
When you say Perl is a resource hog for Windoze <g>, that would raise concerns about installing any of the Gossamer Threads products on our server -- they're all in Perl. Can you give me a bit more of the skinny on this?

Stephen C. Nill

Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
Hi,

For normal loads, perl works well on Windows. However, if you are building a very large site, you should consider PerlEx or something similiar. See http://www.activestate.com for more info.

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
Skinny???

Perl runs way more efficiently on UNIX/Linux servers. Windows already has a built-in web app called "Active Server Pages"....During 1998, M$ and ActiveState were negotiating a partnership to build efficient Perl packages for Windoze servers. But that really never was realized.

Want the ultimate poop scoop???

Running perl scripts on Windoze servers has shown them to use 4-5 times more CPU/Memory (CPU, WCPU, etc.) than running on UNIX boxes.

For testing purposes, Windoze servers are fine...but in terms of load, Perl is not efficient for Windoze servers.

And before you start bitching...I do work in a Windows/Microsoft environment, yet we use M$ SQL Server (7.5, soon to use 2000 version on a web/node cluster server) and Cold Fusion (with a little sprinkling of ASP/JSP). Wink

Trust me...Perl is bad news for most Windoze environments....no matter how much hardware and sofware or traffic you have.

Yea...for low traffic sites (like 100 - 300 unique visitors per day with 150,000 - 200,000 page views a month), Perl is fine with 250 MG of Ram, etc. Anymore traffic than that, forget it...better program a scheduled task to restart the server on a nightly basis. Wink

Good luck!

Regards,

Eliot Lee
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
Ouch, that's a bit too harsh. I've seen several large sites run with perl/cgi just fine on Windows machines, definately averaging more then 300 uniques a day. Granted, Unix boxes are much more efficent at CGI (it's not related to perl, but the fact that windows requires a lot more overhead to launch a new process then unix does), but that doesn't mean it's not a viable solution.

For _any_ large site (i.e. more then 10 million hits a month), you are going to not want to use cgi, but rather a persistant environment like mod_perl or PerlEx.

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
Sorry, Alex...Wink I was being quite serious though...there are many problems with running Perl/CGI scripts in Windoz servers...we found that many memory leaks in our Windoz NT web servers were due mostly to Perl scripts...and we had to re-boot our servers on a weekly basis.

Now, it's not to say that other programming languages/applications don't have their own problems...a poorly written SQL statement in Cold Fusion without properly configured timeout rates and connections can bring a Windoz or any other type of server to its knees. Wink

But in my current work environment, I've found Cold Fusion with Windoz 2000 and NT a lot easier to work with than Perl...and as you know, I am a definite proponent of Perl...use it with many side projects, and of course, I use many of your company's products....Wink

Yes...using mod_perl or the other product that Alex mentioned would enhance executing Perl in Windoz servers. I've tried running either in Windoz servers, but I do trust Alex's opinion. Smile

Regards,

Eliot Lee
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
My thanks to Eliot and Alex. This continues to be a very useful discussion for me.

The CharityChannel.com site is not a particularly large site in terms of traffic -- the 40,000 nonprofit organizations that rely on the system do so through our forums (L-Soft's LISTSERV) and only come to the site to change subscriptions, review the archives, and occasionally to read book reviews and such. So, I "think" I can live with the performance issue that is entailed in the use of CGI on a Win2K Server platform. However, I am fully prepared to come bowing and scraping back here with a long face in the case that I am proven wrong. Thank you both for educating me on the issue. Cross your fingers for me!

I have a couple of questions remaining:

Quick background: I'm running two servers, both WIN2K. Server 1 is the web server, running IIS. The other, Server 2, is running Windows Media Server for streaming media functions, but is not running IIS because the http protocol for Windows Media Server is not available if IIS is running on the same machine. (We need the http protocol to get past corporate firewalls, as many of the nonprofits are educational institutions.)

Question 1: I've picked up and read Michael Kofler's MySQL book, since I anticipate installing MySQL as the database system to run both the LINKS and the MAIL products. In the book, Kofler assumes, without explanation, that MySQL will be installed along with Apache on NT4/WIN2K. My question is, can MySQL be installed to run along with IIS?

Question 2: If the answer to Question 1 is that Apache is required, then I am contemplating installing Apache on Server 2 as well as MySQL, LINKS, and MAIL. (Server 2 is a faster machine and is underutilized anyway, so I'm leaning in this direction.) Will Apache in any way create a problem with Windows Media Server?



Stephen C. Nill, J.D.
stephen_nill@charitychannel.com
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
In checking out PerlEx, it it seems like a terrific performance-booster for Perl running under a Windows environment. I'm definitely leaning toward purchasing it.

Question 1: Do the LINKS or MAIL products require anything special to run under PerlEx? Any script mods? (I'm NOT a Perl programmer.)

Question 2: I see that PerlEx requires IIS, O'Reilly WebSite Professional v2+, iPlanet (Netscape) FastTrack or enterprise servers v2+. No mention of Apache. I'm hoping that MySQL does not require Apache, for obvious reasons. Does it?

Stephen C. Nill, J.D.
stephen_nill@charitychannel.com
Quote Reply
Re: Win2K Server and MySQL In reply to
Hi,

1. No, MySQL does not need IIS or Apache installed. In fact you can install it on a completely different server, or on the same server as your web server. It doesn't matter.

2. Not an issue, you can safely put MySQL on either machine.

3. No, Links SQL/Gossamer Mail do not need anything special to run under PerlEX.

4. No, Apache is not required (if you were to install Apache on the server, then you should run mod_perl which does almost the same thing as PerlEX, but is specific to Apache).

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.