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Dedicated server for links SQL

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Dedicated server for links SQL
I guess (hope) this is the rigth forum for this question...

I am about to buy links SQL (now I guess I am going to wait for the next release). I ordered some time ago an account at vservers for this project but I am now thinking that a dedicated server is a better option since I dont want to move my site once it is successful (if it happens).

So far dedicated hosting (at around 450) was out of the question for this non profit site but not long ago I read that widgetz got a server from dialtoneinternet and I found a server I liked for 250/month, which seems razonable (if I also move there some accounts that dont use any traffic but anyway cost around 30/month).

The problem? I heard from them because Jerry was having problems with the setup of the server actually. Since I dont have experience with linux/server configuration and so far I seem to learn more slowly than he does (at least) I was wondering what kind of experience/knowledge is needed to run a server (and specially a dialtoneinternet server)?

What kind of maintenance is required once everything is setup? (I assume my virtual hosts do something in my actual shared server, I dont know really)

The benefits of a dedicated server are clear. Are there any problems associated with a DS that I am not aware of?

To make my question more clear: I wouldnt mind reading a book or other material on the subject and I want to learn, but I dont want to become a slave of my server and I am not a system administrator (or whatever is called, SO who knows a lot about OS, unix or even Telnet... )

Thanks for the advice

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Re: Dedicated server for links SQL In reply to
First, anyone offering a dedicated server for under about $300 a month, I'd be really careful about. The price point is about $450. If you want to make sure you don't have to move ISP's and have enough resources, look for a stable ISP that has prices that reflect the actual costs of doing business, and not some "loss leader" pricing.

With a virtual server, you are often given all the tools to set up a site. The reason for this is it's part of the marketing strategy, and also by giving you those tools,t hey can tighten security a bit when so many people have access to the same box.

With a dedicated server, you have complete control of the machine, but you are also in control of it. It's up to you to do everything -- upgrade perl, configure apache, install scripts, set up users, etc. You have to know what you are doing. Often, the ISP will charge $125+ an hour to do work for you -- IF they have the time. If you don't know what you are doing, then you have a lot of problems trying to get things to run.

It's not a matter of reading a book, or having a manual. If you run a dedicated server, you are a "wizop" on that machine, and you are "G-d". It's up to you to do everything, and lock everything off.

The point of this is you can't go cheap. If you are already taxing your budget, then you have a problem. You've backed yourself into a corner. You might find it better to go with a virtual server, that offers enough CPU to run the program. At first you'll need more cpu than bandwidth. Later on, that might change, or both might go up.

I'm still working on a plan with my ISP to offer a mix of dedicated hosting and virtual hosting with Link SQL support at fair prices. We aren't going to try to compete with discount ISP's in any way. Our prices have to reflect actual costs, and provide breathing room to grow. Basically, you'll get what you pay for (and hopefully more), and whenever you need it it's there. It won't be overbooked like the airlines. But, we haven't set prices or service levels or a roll out date yet. If anyone is interested, email me and I'll let you know when we have some pricing and plans.

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Re: Dedicated server for links SQL In reply to
Thanks Puddog, that's what I feared...
What I did (besides considering DS) is get a vserver account, which is, at least compared to my other virtual hosts a little bit closer to the freedom of a DS.

The only problem that I see in what you mention is that some of the features of links SQL really seem to need a dedicated server. It seems to me that this program is mostly targeted to users on their own servers. Other programs like Gossamer Mail, that I would really like to try, dont make any sense in a shared server (IMO)


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Re: Dedicated server for links SQL In reply to
It's really a question of scale. Both programs will run on shared servers, and work well. However, don't be fooled, you won't run a directory with 100,000 links, or a free email system with 20,000 users on a shared server. That sort of volume does require a dedicated server.

We are working on setting up an integrated server which will include:

* Links SQL
* Gossamer Mail
* Forum package
* Banner Ads

all integrated and running under mod_perl for optimum performance. This won't be for the hobbyist though and will run anywhere from 600 to 1000 a month (dedicated server). If this interests you, please send me an email for details. We hope to put this up in the coming weeks.



Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: Dedicated server for links SQL In reply to
Actually, for Intel-based Un*xes I'm finding the price-point to be a bit lower. For instance, I currently have two machines leased from a hosting company that offers dedicated servers (PIII/600, 128Mb, 13.gGb) starting at $240 for 20Gb/month. They're also housed inside one of Exodus's POPs, so they have excellent connectivity. (I actually get better response from NJ than I did when the site was located in a data center 40 miles away....) I don't want to advertise them at Gossamer Threads' expense, but folks can contact me at vhall@paladesigns.com if they'd like a reference.

Admittedly, it took me a few weeks to feel comfortable with managing the servers -- and I brought up a FreeBSD/Apache box here at home so I could screw up on a non-mission-critical site first -- but it *can* be done by-the-book. Throwing SQL administration into that mix scares me a bit, though.


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Re: Dedicated server for links SQL In reply to
We know a very good isp in Philadelphia hosting our own servers; they offer dedicated servers from 300 to xxx$ with 50Gigs included. The smallest one (300$) is only a P3 500 with 64MB and 4Gigs , but thats more than most people would really need. I know a lot of people running 486 as a normal webserver ...

If someone interessted, write to emmerich@adeva.de - In a couple of days we would be reseller and maybe we could do something on pricing ...


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Re: Dedicated server for links SQL In reply to
The problem with 486 or even Intel archetecture, is that per unit hardware it's not as powerful as Sun/Sparc. It is cheaper.

You can run a webserver on any machine capable of running Unix or Win95 (or just about any other OS). The rub is how well will that machine perform under load.

Also, "50 gig" a month transfer is pretty good -- unless you stop to think about it. Is that 50 Gig "On demand" or only between 3am and 6am Eastern time?

For serious hosting it's much better to look in terms of "pipe" or "sustained bandwidth" and then "burstable". For instance, the minimum most companies set up (and the minimum probably you'd want) is 1 mbps sustained, 10 mbps burstable. That means you have at least your own 10M Ethernet connection and you are allowed to use 1 MBPS sustained over the course of the month (each ISP will determine at what point your "bursts" equal moving up to the next level of supply).

It's much better to know that between 9pm and 12mid Eastern Time, you'll be able to churn out 1 MBPS sustained (and your server can keep up with it) and if you need 2 or 3 mbps at any given instant it's there. That's _much_ better than knowing if that surfer who hit dead air comes back in 5 hours he'll be able to access your site.

How many "50 gig/month" customers can share a 10mbps Ethernet?? How many of those customers can use it all during "prime" time? a 1mbps line works out to about 8 Gig per day, or 240 gig/month. A 10 mbps line would work out to 2400/month. That works out to almost 50 "50 gig/month" sites sharing a 10mbps line, without being TECHNICALLY oversold.

1 mbps "sustained" customers could only be packed in at _most_ 10 per line, or realistically 6-8 per line due to the "guarantee" of sustained bandwidth you are paying for -- ie: you are paying for it whether you use it or not at any given moment, but it will always be there if you need it. The "burstable" pool is the only part that is "shared". If for any reason you do not get your 1mbps (some other customer is using it) it's up to the ISP to do some load balancing and move you or them to another line -- quickly.

So, it's not only how much transfer they offer you, but how much you are guaranteed to get at any given instant. "200 gig of transfer" is great... but if you can't get it when you want it, what good is it?

24-hour a day, commercial websites need connections measured in "sustained" and "burstable" bandwidth, not monthly totals. And not vague promises of how big the pipe is (since you don't know how much of that pipe has been sold, or will be sold). If you are paying for 1mbps sustained and 10mbps burstable, and you can't get your 1mbps during prime time, you have valid reason to break any contract and move to a new host. What that means is they've sold _your_ pipe to someone else -- or possibly several others. That's not good business on either end, but it's death to your site.

Also, most "NN gig per month" contracts are "up to NN gig per month" and none of that is "guaranteed" to be available. A "sustained" contract defines how much bandwidth you are paying for, and how much you'll have available -- guaranteed -- at any given time.

FAQ: http://www.postcards.com/FAQ/LinkSQL/