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Vision of Links

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Vision of Links
Hi there,

I have been around for quite a while and probably like many other members I would have loved to see more activity in the past years in this forum.
Nevertheless I still think Links is a great product and I do use and like it. If there are active users of Links who are interested in planing some future development with this great software I would like to discuss that.

I am not sure about what could be done and makes sense as we have to consider the legal background. There are some things that might be done:

I expect no major updates or upgrades from GT which is O.K. and acceptable for me although sad. That means on the other hand there should be no risk to lose information by changing the core code (making a fork). Probably GT has no problems with that as long as every installation has its valid license.

Another way: If there are a couple of people we could make some kind of fund collection to pay GT to make some improvements or changes.

As a third idea I could imagine developing some general Plugins where a group of people is contributing.

I think Andy still does great work in supporting everyone left in this forum and contributing new Plugins. Thank you for that, probably one reason there are still people around. It would be great to add a little more force to do something more.

I donīt know if Links technology and background is suitable for the future or if other programming techniques or languages do outperform this product. I have looked at RT, Bricolage and other things GT does support and there are impressive things/inspirations in the code that might not be done in Links without massive changes. On the other hand I donīt know if that is neccessary, does Links need to use HTML::Mason? I donīt think so. I am happy with the basic functions and it would be enough for me to see little improvements.

I would like to collect contact information of people who would like to discuss this idea. Please contact me at gt@master-productions.com or send me a PM or just comment my post.

Regards

n||i||k||o
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Hi,

I think that idea is cool but at the moment I'm not interested in it.
And to be honest, I believe that there isn't many users of core GLinks product out there (the one which are running directories) because when I talked to some people in that business, majority of them didn't heard for GLinks at all.
If you look in Google for "directory software" or something like that, GLinks isn't in first 10 pages of results.

I've moved to another software and migrated all data. Software I'm using is in PHP which I know well so I can do own fixes and plugins. I know very little of PERL/CGI so with GLinks I was really dependent of GT stuff and other plugin developers.
That's also one of reason why you would not have much benefit from my involvement.

I think that GLinks is great software. With GForum and GCommunity. Some of stuff that are resolved in Glinks and much better then in current software I'm using (and it's in active development) and I was running GLinks/GForum/GCommunity for many years but it was time to move on as it's really outdated (10 years behind) and as GT stuff stated, they don't have in plan on working on it anytime soon (in months or years).

I'm happy to see that there is initiative to revive this software and maybe in future I'll come back on it as I still didn't sell my lifetime license (I bought GLinks when it was called Links SQL with lifetime license) but for years to come, I strong believe that I'll stay with current software.

Regards.

UnReal Network
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Re: [DeadMan] Vision of Links In reply to
Hi DeadMan,

Thank you very much for you comment. Sorry to hear you have moved but itīs great that you found a working solution for your needs.
I am not using Links as a directory but still have the core running for a shopping cart. There are quite a lot of Plugins using the unmodified core code.
I hope you are not right and that there are still a lot of people using Links.

I was thinkig about moving on to a PHP or Perl Shop but I am still convinced that Links gives me most of the flexibility.

Regards

n||i||k||o
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Ok,

The problem I see on the gforum nowadays is that people want more features and give examples with other softwares not to be rude but this just doesn't seems to provoke constructive discussion but rather just looks like whining.

IMO in order for GT to put some love back in GLinks they need constructive suggestions so they can filter the most requested and meaningful features which will make sense developing/including in an eventual future version.

With that said as a developer at the current state I'm pretty happy with GLinks for the past hers I'm working with it I've never come across another software so robust and yet flexible.

The only problems so far I had were 1 or 2 GT modules which require some updating (in near future).
The other one i think is more urgent and will require some action pretty soon ... GLinks really NEEDS rework on the user database side:
- From security point of view these plain text passwords are no go anymore!!!
- I would very much like to see GLinks working with users as GComm do ... by User ID rather than username.

Then again apart from these mentioned GLinks still rocks after all these years. I'm constantly using it for customer projects and it is absolutely amazing!
Mind you I'm not speaking about link directories, for me that's only one of the use cases... there are many more!

Cheers,
Boris

Facebook, Twitter and Google+ Auth for GLinks and GCommunity | reCAPTCHA for GLinks | Free GLinks Plugins

Last edited by:

eupos: May 27, 2014, 6:08 AM
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Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
Hi Boris,

Thanks for your reply.

eupos wrote:
IMO in order for GT to put some love back in GLinks they need constructive suggestions so they can filter the most requested and meaningful features which will make sense developing/including in an eventual future version.

Maybe you are right but probably there is no time and there are no ressources at GT to handle constructive and non-constructive suggestions at all. At least that is how I read the comments. I do understand and respect that but as already mentioned I am not happy with that.

eupos wrote:
With that said as a developer at the current state I'm pretty happy with GLinks for the past hers I'm working with it I've never come across another software so robust and yet flexible.

That is why I still stick to it and love it, it is robust and flexible, I never had any serious problems with Links.

eupos wrote:
The only problems so far I had were 1 or 2 GT modules which require some updating (in near future).

I think a lot of people were waiting for that quite a while.

eupos wrote:
- From security point of view these plain text passwords are no go anymore!!!
- I would very much like to see GLinks working with users as GComm do ... by User ID rather than username.
Should and could be done by "forking" or paying GT. Otherwise I fear nothing will happen in a near future.

eupos wrote:
Then again apart from these mentioned GLinks still rocks after all these years!

YES!

Regards

n||i||k||o

Last edited by:

el noe: May 27, 2014, 6:40 AM
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
el noe wrote:
Should and could be done by "forking" or paying GT. Otherwise I fear nothing will happen in a near future.

Mmmm not sure about that:
1. GT still uses GLinks in client projects!
2. There are quite few big sites out there powered by GLinks
3. Just as an example the latest hack on eBay.

Now imagine the impact on GT if something like N: 3 happens on a site powered by GLinks (I mean BIG site) Wink

Cheers,
Boris

Facebook, Twitter and Google+ Auth for GLinks and GCommunity | reCAPTCHA for GLinks | Free GLinks Plugins

Last edited by:

eupos: May 27, 2014, 6:48 AM
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Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
Hi Boris,

I would love to believe you are right. I think there are quite a lot of small fixes and improvements unpublished. I donīt know if that is based on customer projects or if there is a more up-to-date core, but as far as I can see these updates are more for internal use than for public. So my point of view says it is correct that there are really big projects based on Links but I doubt that they are using the same core as we do.

E.g. I had a small issue:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/...ere_P315307/#p315307

I would call it a bug mentioned Jun 3, 2011, once more Jan 23, 2014 and not resolved for people who download Links until today.

Probably there is no one using the STASH feature and I should not call it bug, but I think it is or would be another big advantage of Links if it worked.

Regards

n||i||k||o
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Re: Vision of Links In reply to
Count me in with that initiative.

I love Glinks and I still think that the core is ahead of its time.
Functions around it and user experience is way behind.

I know that many things are somewhat available with Andy, which is fine and great (thanks andy), but bigger "plugins" or concepts are not available.

I dont code at all, perl or php, but I can somewhat code glinks.

I think that all things considered, we need (not in of priority):

  • A better member area and management.
  • A better user upload feature, as in multiple images or documents.
  • Better image integration and management. (resize & compress).
  • Better link ownership and management for the user.
  • Dynamic website.
  • Responsive default theme.
  • html boxes for comments and content.
  • Make it pretty. Glinks is ugly looking.

Most of these things are available, within the script or with plugins, but they are or ugly or more like patches than anything else. A 2014 website needs all these things and many more things by default the day you purchase the script.

Glinks is a script made by programmers and it needs a UI upgrade and a 2014 check.

Im all in to participate to make glinks a better and a more modern script.

Where do I signup???
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Re: [Gorospe] Vision of Links In reply to
Thanks for your feedback, thats pretty much the way I see it, I will keep you up to date.

Regards

n||i||k||o
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Re: [Gorospe] Vision of Links In reply to
Hmmm, I'll take the freedom to criticise a bit here Unimpressed

Gorospe wrote:
I know that many things are somewhat available with Andy, which is fine and great (thanks andy), but bigger "plugins" or concepts are not available.

I'd say "bigger" depends on the particular site needs. In todays web there is no one size fits it all. That's why people and companies hire developers to tailor their website for the specific tasks and idea.

Gorospe wrote:
A better member area and management.
I could agree here to some degree as the user management should be in the very core of GLinks.

Gorospe wrote:
A better user upload feature, as in multiple images or documents.
Not sure how one common feature will fit all needs. In my experience it doesn't.

Gorospe wrote:
Better image integration and management. (resize & compress).
This is really tricky as it depends on what your web host supports. Some support GD, some support ImageMagick, some don't offer any at all! There are some tools which require dozen of libraries installed and they vary between the OS the web host uses, most hosts will not bother to install them or will point you to more flexible and expensive plan. There are some API's as well ... however most of them are paid, how many will use them? Yes there are free ones as well but they are at the same time in pursuit for customers and the flood gates will be closed once the critical user base is reached. It might take months or years who knows.

Gorospe wrote:
Better link ownership and management for the user.
Define better, details are _very_ important. Just saying better could mean anything to anyone.

Gorospe wrote:
Dynamic website.
I'd say GLinks is already pretty dynamic.

Gorospe wrote:
html boxes for comments and content.
This is actually very easy. Just choose your flavour of WYSIWYG editor configure it and insert like 2 lines of code in most cases and voila :)

Gorospe wrote:
Responsive default theme.
Make it pretty. Glinks is ugly looking.
Use CSS framework. Hire a designer? Whatever new design GT comes up you'll see it instantly on thousands of websites, which will essentially render it ugly in no time. With risk of repeating myself: hire a designer is the solution.

Gorospe wrote:
Most of these things are available, within the script or with plugins, but they are or ugly or more like patches than anything else. A 2014 website needs all these things and many more things by default the day you purchase the script.
Glinks is a script made by programmers and it needs a UI upgrade and a 2014 check.

Very true and the reason for that is very few people take the effort to actually work on their websites and that's why in 2014 customisation is the key. One click installs simply don't cut it anymore, you need to have unique functionality, unique design and unique content. Otherwise I'm afraid it'll be money and time wasted. Even Google is design aware nowadays and I will not even mention about content.

And finally as I said in my previous post. Just requesting "Better GLinks" won't work. Think of GLinks as an engine, just requesting a better one won't get you anywhere, developers/engineers need details and specific feedback/suggestions so they can work on most requested ones which would work in most cases.

Cheers,
Boris

Facebook, Twitter and Google+ Auth for GLinks and GCommunity | reCAPTCHA for GLinks | Free GLinks Plugins
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Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
@Boris: criticism is welcome, if we start looking at the details I agree with most of your arguments.
But I prefer not to discuss why nothing should be done and most things are fine at this state.

I started with Links 2.0 and when it came to SQL there was a MyFaves Plugin I think.
As far as I can remember there were no bookmarks at this time. Now it is part of the core.
This function makes sense for many things, not only the directory part of Links.

There are a lot of basic features to enhance the core and the post I mentioned above is only a minor change. From reading the posts I think it is obvious that GT does not have the ressources to handle the public part of developing Links. I think if there were like 10 or maybe even 100 people interested in improving things there would be a consens in some things. For example the part with the passwords you mentioned yourself. At the moment I donīt really care if there is a consens for a single project or if there should be a certain Plugin or if it makes sense to talk to GT. The question for me is if there are people left using Links who would like to see more activity.

What could and should be done in detail in my opinion is more like step 2.

Last edited by:

el noe: May 28, 2014, 9:29 AM
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Oh, ok. I see your point now.

In that case please accept my apologies for intervening in the discussion Frown

As for counting the customers please bare in mind that I have fair amount of GLinks customers myself, same applies for Andy as well. But those two groups have been taken care of. And while some of them have accounts here on the forums as far as I know, most of them don't even know how their site/s operates in the background.

I think won't be very far fetched if we say GT have the biggest numbers of the two types.

With that said, I'm not sure how many are left out there trying to work with GLinks on their own, although the general numbers is not small at all Unimpressed

Cheers,
Boris

Facebook, Twitter and Google+ Auth for GLinks and GCommunity | reCAPTCHA for GLinks | Free GLinks Plugins
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Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
@Boris: I appreciate your comments. I would have expected Andy to have a number of customers but I must confess I did not have you in mind. Nevertheless I would have thought that especially Andy and you were interested in regular updates and enhancements of the core.
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Yes, both me and Andy have interest in bug fixes and enhancements ... however now I'll speak only about myself. Andy have to say his word separately.

From developer point of view my requirements are completely different, I do not want bloated software with features that no one uses. For me small, robust and fast is the key to customer happiness. Speaking frankly I would have even remove some functionality if I could Smile

Namely the Bookmarks (for past couple of years I used this one on only 1 site!) and the Newsletter (this one is used on very rare occasions as well as people hate email in general), both these I'd rather install and use as plugins where needed rather than having them inside because N out of thousand users might use them eventually some day probably. Crazy

On a final note my needs are completely different I'm afraid. I don't need fancy default template it's of no use to me, every site have to be unique in order to stick out of the crowd otherwise it's doomed to oblivion and this is where all these nice designers come in place.

Cheers,
Boris

Facebook, Twitter and Google+ Auth for GLinks and GCommunity | reCAPTCHA for GLinks | Free GLinks Plugins
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Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
I would like to see glinks improvements, too.
Don't want to wake up some day and see my site down, cause glinks can not handle perl 7 or some new modules in the future... Crazy

Matthias
gpaed.de
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Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
I'm a designer not a developer, and I have always found it very easy to put my own HTML into the template files, and use plugins and globals (all of which made by Boris) to address my particular requirements. This makes GLinks far more powerful than any single install could ever cater for.

I see so many people looking for a CMS and not thinking outside the box. GLinks doesn't have to be a directory. I've used it in client projects from competition sites to tubes.

Whilst it isn't perfect for everyone, I think it is incredibly dynamic as a base system. If you want a 'famous 5 minute install', have no money to spend, and have no intention of getting help from a developer, go to another CMS. Otherwise, speak to one of the guys developing plugins for GLinks on here and you'll find you can get EXACTLY what you need.
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Re: [anthonyweston] Vision of Links In reply to
To add, it is very easy to implement responsive themes, just replace GLinks default template with Bootstrap or Foundation. If you don't know how to do that, hire someone or find a system with free themes, 'cause this system is a bit above that...
Quote Reply
Re: [eupos] Vision of Links In reply to
eupos wrote:
Yes, both me and Andy have interest in bug fixes and enhancements ... however now I'll speak only about myself. Andy have to say his word separately.

From developer point of view my requirements are completely different, I do not want bloated software with features that no one uses. For me small, robust and fast is the key to customer happiness. Speaking frankly I would have even remove some functionality if I could Smile

Namely the Bookmarks (for past couple of years I used this one on only 1 site!) and the Newsletter (this one is used on very rare occasions as well as people hate email in general), both these I'd rather install and use as plugins where needed rather than having them inside because N out of thousand users might use them eventually some day probably. Crazy

On a final note my needs are completely different I'm afraid. I don't need fancy default template it's of no use to me, every site have to be unique in order to stick out of the crowd otherwise it's doomed to oblivion and this is where all these nice designers come in place.

Gotta say, I agree on this one. It would be nice to see enhancements, but there is no point overbloating it, as not everyone will need those features. Thats the idea of plugins - you "bolt on" additional features.

There are improvements I would like to see too - such as the encrypted password (as this is a biggie, especially if your DB gets compromised by a hacker). I've used GLinks on a ton of projects, varying from directories, classifieds, selling memberships, and a ton of other stuff - it really does make a great base for it - but it would just be nice to get a bit of TLC every so often Whistle

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
Links SQL Plugins | Website Design and SEO | UltraNerds | ULTRAGLobals Plugin | Pre-Made Template Sets | FREE GLinks Plugins!
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Re: [Andy] Vision of Links In reply to
@Andy: I think we both agree that the password encryption/user-handling could be done with a Plugin. Nevertheless I would prefer this beeing part of the core. Updates or bug fixes are very rare and rementioning the above link to the STASH topic: To me it looks like the code is used by GT a lot, there are small improvements and bug fixes but they are not published. That makes me feel sad, because I really do love to work with Links for all reasons mentioned above.

I understand that there are no ressources at GT but I think e.g. a Links with a collection of Plugins would be a great thing. I mean ultranerds.com has quite a lot of Plugins. But there are more. Using trac or something like that to improve them would be even better. For some projects it could make sense if a couple of people work on the code together. The Plugin List within Links is certainly not up to date.

I work a lot on my own with the things I want to be done with Links. There is almost everytime a solution. If I do not find it then there is Andy and some other guys in the forum. And there is still help and support from GT. So why did I start this topic? Because I remember the time when there were updates and bug fixes and discussions and I see how Plugins are maintained from other projects.
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Hi,

Sure. BTW, I wasn't suggesting the encoding of passwords would be a plugin - it would need to be done in the core code (for authentication reasons).

Quote:
Using trac or something like that to improve them

Trac?

Quote:
For some projects it could make sense if a couple of people work on the code together.

Robert (pugdog) and myself tried that - but its hard to get the time put in together (especially with different coding styles).

I totally agree though - it would be good to see some updates from GT (its a shame GForum 2 was never released, as that had real potential to bring it into the Web2.0 standard)

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
Links SQL Plugins | Website Design and SEO | UltraNerds | ULTRAGLobals Plugin | Pre-Made Template Sets | FREE GLinks Plugins!
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Re: [Andy] Vision of Links In reply to
@Andy: I did not want to imply you suggested authentication as a plugin. I thought more like it could be done as a Plugin for GT provides the hooks. In my opinion it could be done without changing the core and I did imply and think you shared that opinion. No offense Angelic.

Trac is one of many bugtracker solutions and was meant as an example. Piwik uses Trac, other developments work with bugzilla or mantis or whatever else there is on the market. The idea was to talk about structure. Maybe it is not neccesary that a couple of people work on the same code. I agree that this is not trivial. But it would be nice to keep track on improvement suggestions and bugs in a structured way. When you publish a new Plugin there is a new forum post, some feedback, then the post fades away - literally spoken. If someday there is an issue there is a new post or maybe a private message and after a couple of years you have a bunch of posts and no history. A bugtracker looks like a better approach to me and collecting the Plugins in one place makes sense in my opinion.

It is a pity with GForum as it is with Links.
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Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Yeah true. For a bug tracker with my own stuff, I'm not sure its really that relative - as I release a fix as soon as a bug is made known / found.

For GT - I guess they have an internal bug tracker, but thats not something we are privy to :)

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
Links SQL Plugins | Website Design and SEO | UltraNerds | ULTRAGLobals Plugin | Pre-Made Template Sets | FREE GLinks Plugins!
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Re: [anthonyweston] Vision of Links In reply to
Quote:
Whilst it isn't perfect for everyone, I think it is incredibly dynamic as a base system. If you want a 'famous 5 minute install', have no money to spend, and have no intention of getting help from a developer, go to another CMS. Otherwise, speak to one of the guys developing plugins for GLinks on here and you'll find you can get EXACTLY what you need.

I totally agree!
Quote Reply
Re: [el noe] Vision of Links In reply to
Looks like there are not really many people left Frown , thanks to everyone who gave a comment to my "wishion" and is still here to discuss and help in this forum.
I guess there will not happen too much unless GT someday might rediscover this branch which I doubt.