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I have installed the beta five just this day and i still miss the upload things as they are in links 1.13.
Its fine to have a pugdog here programming this stuff, but it could not be the solution the get an upgrade witout a feature the previous version had.

Next time Links 3.0 comes up and we have to buy the admin-feature from a third party.
I think this could not be the right way.
We have purchased a license and as i remember right we purchased all future upgrades too.

What do you think about that?

Maybe for pugdog 250$ its a snap; but not for me. With the actuall dollar/Euro-ratio its no fun to buy things in dollar.
With this as the only way to get my upload i have to pay 700$ in future for every license,
sorry guys but that isn´t correct behaviour; so i hope i was blind not to see the right postings and the final version will have what it should have.

Till this we will stop the planned buy of the next licenses and try our luck at zope.org; it seems there are more than two hundred modes are written from people living the open source idea.

And for personal to you pugdog; i remember truly well your thoughts and ideas you write about open source for 6 or 7 month here in the forum; it seems, when finding a way to make a lot of money in short time everything is gone?

What do you think, what would happen here, if more and more people begin to give their help, ideas or ready mods only for money? The good feeling of the best community (next my own;-) i know, will very fast go away and shurely you will find your mod some days later at the specialised crack sites, i have seen it there yesterday, but let my hands of it, cause i could and would not share the thoughs and lifestyle warezmen have.

The next step would be shurly to protect your work, so the code would be changed or added with maybe some other languages (we do that with parts of c++ for our php or perl things) or in other ways i dont know.

The next crack would come and so on ...

If you would sell your mod for about 20, 30$ i could maybe understand it and i would happy to buy every single license we need; but for 250$ for how many days work? 10, 20;
I think you have a monopol at the moment cause there are less people who could do it and Alex still dont add this feature as it should be.
The same he hasnt done it for the 1.13 version in the correct way, though it would be a snap for him, while we sit for hours and days to do it and we offer more than one time to pay for the mod.

Maybe you become a rich men tru this in the last few weeks, but people will only buy your script if they really must buy it, they dont buy it cause they are happy that there is a crack who does wunderful things for them.
And so they will do a copy, but i repeat myself.

Maybe you have calculate the things right, maybe not; i know about 50 Webmasters using Links SQL and that´s only a small part from thousands worldwide, maybe the number is quite higher , i cant know it, but i know my webmasters from our own webmaster community and i know what they talk in my forum about you, Alex and Links, and how they change their own thinking about that all here, im shure they will not buy it, maybe one for all. On now way i say this is correct, on now way i will help them doing things that should not be done, but i understand why they do it and why their minds change.

But its your decision and your life.
I will not buy it for this price and maybe it must think about if i would ever help another german webmaster as i have done it in our own german forum for links for non countable hours in the last six month. And cause im still no programmer its shurly a more hard work for me than for you.

But money rulez the world right?!
But that was only a bad joke, i will shurely help my guys as good as i can in future too; they love my community, they buy my scripts and they would feel like a piece of [bleep!] if they would stole something from me after the things i have done for them.

Maybe there was a better way to solve that all in, writing code for Alex and get some parts from every future sell; but so people think you do a bad deal with them, while Alex dont do the upload and you sell your script.
A good name is woth a lot and sometimes you can loose it in minutes.


As everytime i hope you would be kind enough to excuse my english and if i have something said in a strange way, please ask befor you think you must throw an axt after me; probably its only a thing of a small found of words i have. And if you could speak better german than i speak english, we could everytime change the langauge ;-)

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Re: UPLOAD FEATURE??? In reply to
I don't like responding to personal attacks, but I will restate the facts, and summarize my previous posts.

Many people seem to feel that once they buy a program, all costs stop. In actuality, just like a car, they just begin. I spend a lot of time here, solving problems for people, beyond just software mods and patches. I don't get paid for that. But it takes time. As a shareholder/owner of the corporation I work for, a really good argument could be made that that time is theirs, or at least their asset. With the new tax year came some problems that had to be addressed, and the only way to address it, and cover myself and my company legally, is to charge for tangible 'assets' or 'products' I create. A price cannot really be put on forum interaction, but software products do have a value and/or price.

Secondly, the file upload/graphic attach mod is only $25, the full image management system is $250. With the product realignment, that might change, so that the file/attach upload plug in is $25, and can attach one of any type of file to a link. You can modify it to do more, but you are "on your own" for that since it would be non-standard (even if I did it), until GT comes up with some sort of spec. The graphic/logo/priority mod which adds image processing to the setup will be $35. Of course you could try to save $10 and do it yourself, but believe me, the $10 is worth it.

The postcards script will be $125 and include parts of the graphic-upload mod, unless that is already installed.

The full image management system will be $250 or thereabouts.

So, please. If you want to post gripes, and name names, please do so factually, and by what the people you had directly or indirectly actually said. I believe this is fair, and covers me, and gives me incentive to keep going.

From what I saw of the file upload system, it was a hack that never really worked well. I was never able to make it work. Many others were never able to make it work. My plug-in works :) And it's getting better.

I've held off more releases until the stable version comes out, since that is really what I need to target, not the betas. Once that is released, I should have the 2 versions of the upload and the postcards script as plugins in a matter of hours or days.

PUGDOG® Enterprises, Inc.
FAQ: http://pugdog.com/FAQ

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Re: UPLOAD FEATURE??? In reply to
Hi Robert,

I think your entire post is based on a misunderstanding and hopefully after reading Pugdog's reply you'll realize that.

As for the lack of an upload feature, it has not been put in due to time constraints. It was not a popular feature on Links SQL 1.1 (due in fact on how it was implemented I know), and we have not had time to implement in properly in Links SQL 2.0.

If we tried to add every feature, we would never get a stable version done and released. This is something we will add, but it won't make it in the main release due out in a few days.

Despite what you think, it is not a simple fix to do properly, it takes quite a bit of work to develop. For a short term solution, Pugdog does have an image upload plugin that will do the trick.



Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: UPLOAD FEATURE??? In reply to
I believe you have misread pugdog's rationale for charging for the File Upload modification. He is using company resources to produce the modification and thus, he _has to charge people for the modification.

And pugdog, IMHO, does provide a lot of "free" resources and is still a firm believer in open source programming.

Give him a break!

And that is your choice to go with another product.

Best of luck!


Eliot Lee
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Re: UPLOAD FEATURE??? In reply to
On rereading, I didn't mean to sound so short on the 'hack' part.

But, the file upload was a "mod" that had been requested enough that some temporary solution was figured out. It never really worked well, and was not thought through. With the 2.0 release, some new possibilities for a robust file management/attachment system is possible. Keeping a hack in place was just encouraging misuse (in a way).

With the new routines, it's possible to create a file system such that an Attachments table is related to the Users and Links tables via AttachOwner and LinkID. This would allow one link to have multiple attachments via an AttachLinks table. This would also allow an attachment to belong to several links, via the same system.

If Alex/GT wanted to agree to a format, I could have a system developed in fairly short order. (Remember, I'm working on a targeted subset of functions, not the whole shebang like Alex/GT is :)).

I could even try to fit file management features into it, to allow more robust managment of files on the server under server permissions. But anything more advanced than the two first plugins I've mentioned has to be done in agreement with what GT has planned for the future development, or it's a waste of time, and fragments the user base.

I don't want to get too side tracked from my main goal of the photo-management system, but having a working file attachment system would still be the basis of any more complicated modification I build.

PUGDOG® Enterprises, Inc.
FAQ: http://pugdog.com/FAQ

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Re: UPLOAD FEATURE??? In reply to
As i have written "i hope not to see all necessary threads";
it seems you have splitted your offer to more packages; that´s ok and that´s what i have hoped to reach with my thread.
All other stuff is that what my webmasters think and if Alex brings up the upload-mod, the people would calm down; (and i will translate this thread and post it to my buddies to help on this)
Sorry, if i have attacked you personally, as i have written, its not easy to find the right words in english for thoughts i want to express.

Alex: i dont talk about the upload feature for 2.0 but for 1.13 when i said: "just some minutes work to do for you";
again we would like to buy the mod for our site, cause the code would shure be better than the things we have done.´

As you have mentioned the upload-feature is not important for the most webmasters, i think you are wrong;
we and some other guys dont use links as an ordinary search-engine; with some fantasy and small mods you could use links as an high-value document-management-system;
i will post an adress in about four weeks where you can see it in action; and truly the upload-feature is a absolutly needed feature.


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Re: UPLOAD FEATURE??? In reply to
The whole plugin system is naturally going to lend itself to people charging for their mods, simply because there is a far easier way to distribute them and contain them, this must have been one of the main reasons for putting it there and it is a good one, because by being able to get some money back from a plugin, more people are going to invest time into it.

As the product is pretty expensive as it is, you are unlikely to get that many free source idealists working with it anyway, so this is the best way to encourage further development and features which is what we all want. Pugdog has made a great product at a really great price and i look forward to its final completion and other plugins in the future. I also hope some more simple ones will be free (vbulletin plugin alex :) ) and all the help so far received from people here has far surpassed the relativly small cost of a few plugins.

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