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Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL

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Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL
I'm certain some people will disagree with me here, but please be aware this is from someone who does love Links and is meant totally as constructive criticism to improve the product. Not to knock anyone at all.

From a strategical standpoint, I've noticed a radical change in Links from the time I last paid a lot of attention to the product. Back then it was at version Links 2.0. The community was vibrant and many mods were being created free of charge. Now I see people creating some very simple things and charging $50 bucks for these add-ins. Which is fine, but, other communities and similar products (forum software) do the same for small things for free. There are some free mods, but some of the basics are almost as pricey as buying full blown software.

I think if LinksSQL cost around $100 instead of its current price, 10X, maybe 20X or 50X the number of buyers would buy the product making more income for GT. And bring in lots of developers to add Mods. And some major features that are being charged $1000 for (PPC) should come with the product. It's only a matter of time before a competitor comes in and charges less and offers it as part of the package.

Some other things to consider. Although the user signup system is cool, I don't think it's appropriate for the vast majority of Links customers. Most people come into a site once, add their url, and they're gone forever. Why bother with a signup system? I agree it's needed to stop spam, but a much simpler solution that should come right out of the box is a simple image verification to make sure a robot isn't doing the signup and boom you're done. Perhaps a feedback form so people can notify admin if their url changed (that's what the vast majority do anyways because they can't navigate the user system that well and/or forgot their password). For sites that want a user signup, why not....but it should be an option turned off by default with image verification turned on by default.

I think GT has a great opportunity if they offer Links at a vbulletin level price w/ the following features built-in:
Robust and flexible Spider w/ more features than the for sale ones have right now.
PPC (as I said before)
Claim this url (great mod available free)
Robust and flexible Reciprocal Links checker (more features would be helpful)
Improved payment support (it works nice right now, but could use more flexibility)
Simplified DMOZ import built-in. Too complicated right now.
Ability to skin w/ static pages built in user-defined templates instead of having to choose just one. More than one home.html output would be nice too.

The influx of clients and developers if this move was made would blow away GT I believe. If you don't do this, someone else will see the opportunity and take it from GT. InLinks is getting there, but they don't have the level of developer and probably never will. But there is a vaccuum and sooner or later it will be filled. The price point for LinksSQL is a bit too high to get the popularity it can.

Just my opinion.
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Re: [dwh] Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL In reply to
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Now I see people creating some very simple things and charging $50 bucks for these add-ins. Which is fine, but, other communities and similar products (forum software) do the same for small things for free.

Dude.. some of us have to live. The problem is, people don't notice the free plugins we also provide. Its always the same story ... "why charge for a plugin?" ... simple... it helps keep the plugin author alive and kicking... and it also helps us to find the time to write more free/pay-for plugins (which enevitably comes back to why people pay).

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I think if LinksSQL cost around $100 instead of its current price, 10X, maybe 20X or 50X the number of buyers would buy the product making more income for GT. And bring in lots of developers to add Mods. And some major features that are being charged $1000 for (PPC) should come with the product. It's only a matter of time before a competitor comes in and charges less and offers it as part of the package.

Not at all. Its priced high, because *NO* scripts come close to its power. How many plugin and global/template (decent) systems have you ever seen in other scripts? My guess would be, not many.

Also, do you know how much support is required for a product like LinksSQL? If you have one problem, it can keep a techi busy for a whole day (and thus a days less work on something else). GT *REALLY* know their stuff about support. I guess you just think I'm blabbing on now... but when you've been with as many hosts as me, and used as many different scripts as me; then you learn these kind of things ;)

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Some other things to consider. Although the user signup system is cool, I don't think it's appropriate for the vast majority of Links customers. Most people come into a site once, add their url, and they're gone forever. Why bother with a signup system? I agree it's needed to stop spam, but a much simpler solution that should come right out of the box is a simple image verification to make sure a robot isn't doing the signup and boom you're done. Perhaps a feedback form so people can notify admin if their url changed (that's what the vast majority do anyways because they can't navigate the user system that well and/or forgot their password). For sites that want a user signup, why not....but it should be an option turned off by default with image verification turned on by default.

Maybe true, but whats the point in taking out a major feature? It can all be turned off in the admin panel too Wink

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Ability to skin w/ static pages built in user-defined templates instead of having to choose just one. More than one home.html output would be nice too.

Agreed.. that would be a pretty cool feature :)

BTW..I'm not having a go back at you ... just putting over a developers point of view :)

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
Links SQL Plugins | Website Design and SEO | UltraNerds | ULTRAGLobals Plugin | Pre-Made Template Sets | FREE GLinks Plugins!
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Re: [Andy] Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL In reply to
Quote:
Dude.. some of us have to live. The problem is, people don't notice the free plugins we also provide. Its always the same story ... "why charge for a plugin?" ... simple... it helps keep the plugin author alive and kicking... and it also helps us to find the time to write more free/pay-for plugins (which enevitably comes back to why people pay).


I totally realize that and don't mean you. Your work on DMOZ looks awesome and you deserve to charge for that. You've developed some great scripts for GT that you offer for free and have given back a lot to the community.


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Not at all. Its priced high, because *NO* scripts come close to its power. How many plugin and global/template (decent) systems have you ever seen in other scripts? My guess would be, not many.

Also, do you know how much support is required for a product like LinksSQL? If you have one problem, it can keep a techi busy for a whole day (and thus a days less work on something else). GT *REALLY* know their stuff about support. I guess you just think I'm blabbing on now... but when you've been with as many hosts as me, and used as many different scripts as me; then you learn these kind of things ;)


I've been thinking about it some more and take back what I said. It isn't actually that expensive. It's just that the method of charging could be improved. I love vbulletin. But I've probably paid more for it and feel like I've paid less. Why? Because they charge $85 per year for licensing it. Long term costs more. Short term feels like less. If GT offered a cheaper price for a yearly license in addition to their current scheme, I bet they'd find some serious increase in sales.
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Maybe true, but whats the point in taking out a major feature? It can all be turned off in the admin panel too Wink


I'm not saying remove the feature. I just kind of realized that it is better to turn it off by default because it hurts the usability of the site. I get so many complaints about users confused and having trouble logging in.

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BTW..I'm not having a go back at you ... just putting over a developers point of view :)


I know. Me neither. Just opening the channel to talk about these things for the better of GT. You and I have been around for a long time. It took me a while to realize that because you used to use username pugdog and signed it Andy. Now you changed your username to Andy and have that Ultranerds site so I didn't recognize the name right away. Cheers!
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Re: [dwh] Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL In reply to
Quote:
I know. Me neither. Just opening the channel to talk about these things for the better of GT. You and I have been around for a long time. It took me a while to realize that because you used to use username pugdog and signed it Andy. Now you changed your username to Andy and have that Ultranerds site so I didn't recognize the name right away. Cheers!

heheh.. pugdog is Robert, not me :) (my partner on Ultranerds.com). I used to run linkssql.net, but we have now joined forces to work as a team :) My names Andrew Newby :)

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
Links SQL Plugins | Website Design and SEO | UltraNerds | ULTRAGLobals Plugin | Pre-Made Template Sets | FREE GLinks Plugins!
Quote Reply
Re: [dwh] Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL In reply to
Quote:
I totally realize that and don't mean you. Your work on DMOZ looks awesome and you deserve to charge for that. You've developed some great scripts for GT that you offer for free and have given back a lot to the community.

Thanks :)

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I've been thinking about it some more and take back what I said. It isn't actually that expensive. It's just that the method of charging could be improved. I love vbulletin. But I've probably paid more for it and feel like I've paid less. Why? Because they charge $85 per year for licensing it. Long term costs more. Short term feels like less. If GT offered a cheaper price for a yearly license in addition to their current scheme, I bet they'd find some serious increase in sales.

Possibly; but you would be suprised how many people need LinksSQL (I'm a reseller...so trust me on this one Smile). It seems that there is a never ending need for LSQL, mainly down to the great features, but also down to the fact its so user-friendly, yet at the same time, still powerful (and, above most directory scripts, allows for static pages; or mod_rewrite to make them look static).

It would obviously be down to GT to decide on a "yearly license" ... as I'm sure it would be quite hard to enforce (there are quite a few illegit sites, who are using illegal copies of LSQL.. which only really hurts people like me, and GT) I know I find it hard to offer a "membership" to people on Ace-Installer.com, knowing that most of the people who use it, abuse it to hell and back (offering different versions of it on their own site, for profit, etc). It sucks... but I guess its the way things go :(

Sorry, I'm wandering again :p

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I'm not saying remove the feature. I just kind of realized that it is better to turn it off by default because it hurts the usability of the site. I get so many complaints about users confused and having trouble logging in.

Agreed. I guess the reason it is set to "on" as default, is because it opens so many new features (the ability to have a secure "editing" of links method with modify.cgi?LinkID=1234, and it then checks you are the correct owner of that link). At least its an option though :) Thats what I love about LSQL... its so customizable, with so little work (or lots, depending on how you like it to run...lol).

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I know. Me neither. Just opening the channel to talk about these things for the better of GT.

Cool Cool

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
Want to give me something back for my help? Please see my Amazon Wish List
GLinks ULTRA Package | GLinks ULTRA Package PRO
Links SQL Plugins | Website Design and SEO | UltraNerds | ULTRAGLobals Plugin | Pre-Made Template Sets | FREE GLinks Plugins!
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Re: [Andy] Suggestions for the future of LinksSQL In reply to
In Reply To:
Quote:
I've been thinking about it some more and take back what I said. It isn't actually that expensive. It's just that the method of charging could be improved. I love vbulletin. But I've probably paid more for it and feel like I've paid less. Why? Because they charge $85 per year for licensing it. Long term costs more. Short term feels like less. If GT offered a cheaper price for a yearly license in addition to their current scheme, I bet they'd find some serious increase in sales.

Greetings All I am one of these who are mentioned above who would love to use LinksSQL and their Email Program and their Forum. I started out with Links 2 and then eventually went with In-link. Issue for me is I run a Non Profit Directory and have done for 13 Years - never made any serious money off it at all even though I charge for Lisitings.
I support it myself for the wages I earn and over the years would of spent quite a few dollars on it in developers and design costs.
GT have the right to earn from the products they develop and have mentioned to quite a few people here in NZ if they are serious about running a portal or directory they should look at GT products as I have not yet seen any that can better them and that they have been around for a long time now and continue to develop their software.
I have mentioned to Alex and Jack in the past that there are other ways in a payment sense, like is mentioned above, discounted packages if you say bought three products at once and one day this may happen. Upfront there is no way I could afford to buy LINKSSQL, Forum, GT Mail and then pay for it to be developed and designed and where I am I am at a disadvantage straight away as our dollar is worth half the USA dollar.
As it was stated In-links is getting there but I learn't a very valuable lesson about static and dynamic directories and prefer to use a statically created directory rather than dynamic. Keep up the good work GT and all you developers and I continue to lurk and read what is happening.

Last edited by:

Ian Conza: Jul 24, 2004, 5:51 PM