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Re: [rgbworld] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css
Hi,

I've actually got it appearing as an update in my admin panel but I'm not sure whether it's supposed to be there or not !

John
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Same here:


No critical updates available.
No recommended updates available.
No optional updates available.
A new version is available for upgrade.

New version: Gossamer Links 3.0.0 RC1
Perhaps someone from GT could confirm on this as it is mentioned that RC is not expected until monday...

Trying to upgrade gives error due to $continue_url not being found :/

Thanks
HyTC
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Last edited by:

HyperTherm: Mar 26, 2005, 11:22 AM
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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
bump

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HyTC
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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
I think when you get that far that you'll find it in your admin area.

There seems to be an issue with the link to the install files.

However I installed it and I'm not getting the templates working so I'd personally recommend waiting for the official announce.
I think GT is working hard to get it all ready for the announced release date...

John
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Thanks.
Personally i feel that GT should form a core group of beta testers picked from their client list whom "They Think" can do rigorous testing even before releasing a beta. In the current form glinks3 doesn't even fall in the beta stage. At least this will ensure that they have more hand at work for beta testing if manpower shortage is the issue at GT.

Thanks
HyTC
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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
>> In the current form glinks3 doesn't even fall in the beta stage

I don't think you have that right.

Glinks is *definitely* in beta, and is potentially a release candidate.

What is *not* ready, and has not been ready, is their new .css interface.

The back-end code, works with 2.x templates just fine. THere are new features, new fixes, and some programming upgrades that will make life easier for developers.

GT has not confused implementation with interface, though it's clouded up a bit on the css <G>. The implementation has steadily pulled away from interface, so you can get the data in/out of the system with custom interfaces. Their primary interface widget GT::Template is continually improved, so even the "interface" is well done, but only the _display_ of said interface is left as an exercise to the developer <G>

I have not gotten major errors, problems, or such with 2.99.x , except for the install and "luna" interfaces. It's upgraded, installed, and works with 2.x html intefaces just fine.

fwiw: I have not used the internal bookmarks nor the payment system on any sites, even with 2.2.x

Despite the issues, I'd have to argue that this is their best "upgrade" release yet.

It hasn't seemed to break anything in a 2.1 or 2.2 release (that wasn't noted as needing to be updated -eg: one or two minor template changes).

While the new features may not be completely bug free, it has not broken running sites, which means exisitng sites are still up and running, with the new code, while new features and back-end improvements are phased in.

So, the 2.99 is really more of an RC than a Beta, at least IMHO.

If new sites can be developed, and old sites keep running, and new features can be phased in, then it's not a beta -- it's production-ready.


PUGDOG´┐Ż Enterprises, Inc.

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Re: [pugdog] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
I don't think you have that right.

Glinks is *definitely* in beta, and is potentially a release candidate.

Well if i can't upgrade a working live install i am not too sure then what to say:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/perl/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=278849

Thanks

Thanks
HyTC
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Re: [pugdog] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Hi

I would just like to clarify that I have my own specific CSS templates that I had modified to use 'new' type code ie <%user.Username%> in order to comply better with 'GLinks3' code.

These new templates and as Pugdog says my old 2.X templates work fine in both the beta and the 2.99.1 and rewrite rules and quite a few plug-ins work as well. The only plug-in that I've come across that my need some clarification is webmaster33's Category Name converter for foreign accents conversion, since the "build_directory_field" field has disappeared from the admin build panel.

I think that the backward compatibility work is amazing in view of Links3's XHTML and CSS validation standards. The whole CSS and theme concept may not mean much to all the moment but it is really going to offer site owners a realm of possibilities and personalization options etc.
Some of the people who understand the perl code options (which counts me out) that have been brought in seem to be very pleased about it...

I think that Glinks3 is a great move forward and seems to be incredibly stable for a beta version. Yes there are a few bugs that have and may need to be ironed out but I must just say having worked on large scale beta releases of ERP type software that IMHO we as a GT Community are lucky here.

I don't think it is acceptable to think/expect any of these beta releases to be completely bug free or coming across a few quirks. It's only really with the final release that GT is announcing a acceptable level of stability for people to consider installing on a live site and since most of us use plug-ins etc. It seems to me a pre-requisite to replicate a live site anyway to test it in a pre-production environment with all mods and additions prior to thinking about a live upgrade.

I also think that some new functions are just awesome. The updates feature allows GT to not only inform site owners about bugs but also provide them with the fix as well that they can choose to automatically apply if they wish. One way or another we're informed !
The bookmarks feature is great. It may be me but I like the newsletter interface. The whole CSS and XHTML compatibility plus themes is a window of opportunities...

All in all I feel that this is a very impressive release in the happening Smile

John
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
I couldn't even move to 2.9.9.1 on test install, it asks for a url /amin/$continue_url which obviously would not work. Upgrades yes, the feature is good but perhaps a bit too early (cf /admin/$continue_url)

Across the board Paging Failure in static mode is more of a alpha test as far as i can understand. Bookmark feature is good as long as users do not just bookmark their own links and place it in public folder. If everyone would just do that and place it in public folder, then it would defnitely cause end user (not us admins) unhappiness to see an end less list of users with just their bookmarks in public folders.

ERP is as different ball game altogether. There the "Implementation/Migration/Training" time schedules could very well overshadow the bug testing phase, not too sure which one you are referring to. Yes bug testing becomes important when the same is being "Customized" to incorporate the "Business Rules" of the organzation into the already coded system as then it passes through ReDesign/Testing/Implementation/Training phases. We are fully aware of hands on experience of integrated ERP stuff of having implemented it in a steel mill which never ever took anything off the shelf due to cost considerations and yet had hrd/sales/ppc/finance/production/inventory all integrated into one operating on oracle 6 (using forms 3 and pro*c) long back on a RISC 6000 server with over 30 nodes and since i had personally been involved in "system designing" for the "production/productivity/cost control" module and i think i can talk with authority on that and understand the difference of maginitude between ERP and Glinks. Remeber there were no Process Modellers and Designers tools of "Designer 2000" series then (i am talking of 1996-1997) to make things easier through there was something from Embarcadero at that time ...

Smile

Thanks
HyTC
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Last edited by:

HyperTherm: Mar 27, 2005, 6:26 AM
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Re: [pugdog] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
Despite the issues, I'd have to argue that this is their best "upgrade" release yet.
I aggree, the v3.0 release has not so much improvements, as I could await from it.


Quote:
It hasn't seemed to break anything in a 2.1 or 2.2 release (that wasn't noted as needing to be updated -eg: one or two minor template changes).

But GT does break some old features in v2.99, as there are several features which are not backward compatible.
Just read the DirName_converter on beta "2.99" thread, and you will see that the build_directory_field config option was removed suddenly without keeping backward compatibility for a few versions at least.


About CSS, IMHO.
The CSS is fine, however I support only limited usage of it.
I don't like CSS, when external CSS files are used (exactly the case what GT now chose to make design changes easier using CSS).
Just save a page, which uses external CSS files.
All design is gone, and the page is so awful without CSS design, that sometimes you can not even read it.
That's my main problem with unlimited use of CSS features.

Best regards,
Webmaster33


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Last edited by:

webmaster33: Mar 27, 2005, 7:00 AM
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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
I couldn't even move to 2.9.9.1 on test install, it asks for a url /amin/$continue_url which obviously would not work. Upgrades yes, the feature is good but perhaps a bit too early (cf /admin/$continue_url)
I think that you'll find that in your "admin" folder if you got that far that there is a "glinks-2.99.1" folder...
As I was saying it works fine for me with my specific templates but there is an issue with the code referring to the CSS files in the new luna templates if I switch to luna in the admin which means the browser doesn't have access to the CSS to display the files correctly.

I see what you mean about the bookmark feature but then I wouldn't be using it the way you describe and hence wouldn't have an issue with that...

I'm not sure that the specifics of ERP rule out a comparison with beta testing personally, although you are correct that the whole process is far more complex.Hey if it wasn't I wouldn't even be using GT products. I worked mostly on a product called SAP Portals which I consider conceptually close to GT products in several areas. I'm glad to say I missed out on a lot of the more traditional ERP software. I think that is the beauty both about Perl and GT products in that they allow someone like me (I have a Project Manager/Consultant type profile) to use them. For someone like myself that enjoys graphic designing, ergonomics and a bit (but not too much) of programming, I feel that GT products are great. They take out the whole complexity of coding something from scratch and at the same time enable an enormous amount of customization in areas I enjoy...Smile

I feel very excited about where Links is going and I doubt GT will be releasing a product that has major inherent issues. I also feel it's a privilege to be able to participate in the testing and provide feedback and suggestions along the way to help the community and myself obtain yet again a great solution for a web site Cool
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Re: [webmaster33] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Trying to use:

<%Links::Utils::load_link_info%>
<%include link.html%>

in any emailings, would break... at least that's what i found and so had to escape that CSS route for such case (Andy's Recommend_It plugin for example). Other than this it is OK so far excpt for few balancing acts between the sidebar and content area... etc.




Thanks
HyTC
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Re: [webmaster33] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
About CSS, IMHO.
The CSS is fine, however I support only limited usage of it.
I don't like CSS, when external CSS files are used (exactly the case what GT now chose to make design changes easier using CSS).
Just save a page, which uses external CSS files.
All design is gone, and the page is so awful without CSS design, that sometimes you can not even read it.
That's my main problem with unlimited use of CSS features.

Don't you think that the fact the Links 3 provides backward compatibility with 2.X templates actually provides you with the best of both worlds though ? I feel that even in the case of a person using HTML 4 code in there templates Links3 is not going to stop them from carrying on the same way. But maybe I have misunderstood how backward compatible it is !

As for the CSS in itself you are right about CSS not working in all browsers but I think the main goal of CSS is to one day overcome the issues you describe. With such a diverse browser population it will always be difficult to bring innovations and get it to work in old browsers.

CSS does allow some really great design possibilities as Adrian has demonstrated with his great work with Links3. Also from a browser perspective it works nicely in nearly all browsers with only one or two quirks to iron out. I also feel that references to sites like ZenGarden are sometimes a disservice to the type of work Adrian has provided. You're basically comparing one specifically coded page to a whole system like Links that has to handle dynamically generated and static pages with content that can dramatically vary in layout and length...

I was showing a friend the other day screenshots of a major antivirus software company's home page. It looks great and has some really nifty features but then when you look at in Firefox some things don't work and then in Konqueror there's some content that isn't even displayed...! But for me this doesn't illustrate that CSS is bad but rather that the code used just isn't compatible with enough browsers to consider using it especially on a multinational's home page !
And IMHO the present beta Links templates do a great job from a compatibility point of view...

John
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
True with respect to flexibility issue and that's what has kept us glued (Me and The Person who is always associated with my screen name by GT staff in general despite that person having left these forums voluntarily long back) to GT so far. Problems have been more due to that presumed mistaken identity of my screen name.

Yup i had seen that directory under admin, but then i always wanted to test the "Upgrade Feature" which is really meant to replace the exercise of going down to Admin directory

They have reorganized the directory structure ... moving everything to under static or something not too sure if that's the reason of luna CSS failing in 2.9.9.1 ... perhaps the installer is not fully upgraded ... though i would ruin my test install and come back to you in case i can figure out what the issue is

Smile

[EDIT]
I went down to admin/glinks2.99.1 and ./install.cgi

Do you accept the terms of the above license agreement? [No]: Yes
Error: You must accept the terms of the license agreement before
proceeding with the installation.

Does it mean that i have "Not To Accept The License Terms" and enter a NO there? I entered a Yes and got the error as stated above
[/EDIT]

Thanks
HyTC
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Last edited by:

HyperTherm: Mar 27, 2005, 7:53 AM
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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Just to chime in here...

I am running 2.99.0, and in admin "available updates", it states 3 updates are available, but the "show all details" displays nothing.

I have also looked in the admin/updates, and there 7 items there, but no 2.99.1
This is probably because I am already using 2.99.0 and have already used the very slick "update feature"

Also, FYI I can't even log into the licenced download area, this may be due to the pending RC as well.

Chris
RGB World, Inc. - Software &amp; Web Development.
rgbworld.com
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
OK think i could figure out the problem wrt CSS.
The upgrade (which i finally managed) does not set the following:

build_static_url
build_static_path

The textbox is empty and in include_common_head.html you have

<%if theme%><link type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" media="screen" href="<%config.build_static_url%>/<%t%>/<%theme%>.css" /><%endif%>

This is why it isn't working

Thanks
HyTC
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
Don't you think that the fact the Links 3 provides backward compatibility with 2.X templates actually provides you with the best of both worlds though ? I feel that even in the case of a person using HTML 4 code in there templates Links3 is not going to stop them from carrying on the same way.
Yes, that's right. Both plain HTML and HTML+CSS is possible to use. You can decide which one to use.
I just mentioned, that personally don't like some kind of CSS usage, because of the mentioned reasons.

It's not really a backward compatibility of GT template system, it's the freedom of the HTML, CSS standards. You can use CSS, but you don't have to...

Best regards,
Webmaster33


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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
That's funny I did that and said I agreed and I got the nice CSS design along the way and it all installed without any problems... and that was yesterday. Did you do yours via ssh or telnet ?

BTW I was wondering if anyone knows how the "tmp" folder worked I'm guessing it is what Links uses for the updates but mines getting pretty big. Does it get cleaned/deleted after a certain amount of time or are they required for some reason ?


John
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Re: [webmaster33] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
It's not really a backward compatibility of GT template system, it's the freedom of the HTML, CSS standards. You can use CSS, but you don't have to...

That's true it's more accurate to say that

And I do agree with your arguments about CSS in that it does exclude certain people from having an acceptable view of the content but hopefully that percentage of the population (that statistics seem to indicate are slowly dwindling) will become a thing of the past shortly...

John
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
I tried first thru ssh ... so ssh license acceptance doesn't work so far.
Got down to more conventional http way and the install finished.

tmp folder .... i delete the intries there manually ... a lot og GTTemp* there and it does get big, more so if using fileman for uploads etc, mysqlman for dumping ... this is common boith to glinks and gmail i have to clean them up regularly.

Thanks
HyTC
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Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Okay, I just talked to Jason and Jack about all this and here's what's going on. Gossamer Links 3.0 RC (2.99.1) won't be officially released until Monday. However, for all of you who have testing out the beta, you will be able to get a sneak peek at the release by updating through Gossamer Update.

Some notes about getting the upgrade:
  • You need the Updates update as well as the GT::Template update before you can install the RC ugrade.
  • Remember to restart mod_perl/speedy if you're running under those (and anytime you update a module).
  • There's a few bugs in the installer that should be fixed now - one being the agreeing to the license agreement in console (it works if you answer in lowercase), the other one being build_static_{url,path} aren't saved into your config.
  • If you still can't upgrade, try reinstalling the Updates and GT::Template updates. You might have grabbed them while Jason was testing.
Happy Easter and have fun! Smile

Adrian

Last edited by:

brewt: Mar 27, 2005, 1:07 PM
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Re: [webmaster33] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
In Reply To:
But GT does break some old features in v2.99, as there are several features which are not backward compatible.
Just read the DirName_converter on beta "2.99" thread, and you will see that the build_directory_field config option was removed suddenly without keeping backward compatibility for a few versions at least.
If it makes sense to keep things in for backwards compatibility then we will leave it in. However, for a setting like this which is not used at all in the base program, we won't leave in.

In Reply To:
I don't like CSS, when external CSS files are used (exactly the case what GT now chose to make design changes easier using CSS).
Just save a page, which uses external CSS files.
All design is gone, and the page is so awful without CSS design, that sometimes you can not even read it.
That's one minor downside to external style sheets, but I think the advantage of being able to cache the style sheet far outweighs that downside. I'd have to disagree with things being unreadable. If the correct markup has been used, it should be fairly readable without the stylesheets.

Adrian
Quote Reply
Re: [HyperTherm] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
Post: Trying to use:

<%Links::Utils::load_link_info%>
<%include link.html%>

in any emailings, would break... at least that's what i found and so had to escape that CSS route for such case (Andy's Recommend_It plugin for example).
Then include the css file or the relevant rules. Not very hard.

Quote:
Other than this it is OK so far excpt for few balancing acts between the sidebar and content area... etc.
We released the beta knowing of these problems (we wanted to keep our promised release date), but the issues have been resolved in the RC.

Adrian
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Re: [Jag] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
In Reply To:
Does it get cleaned/deleted after a certain amount of time or are they required for some reason ?
As HyperTherm mentioned, some files are abandoned files from broken uploads, etc. But some are from a bug in one of the modules (I can't remember which one), that should be fixed in 2.99.1. You should be able to safely clean out the directory (as long as someone isn't currently uploading or something).

Adrian
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Re: [brewt] GLinks 3.x HOWTO: Overriding styles in CSS using custom.css In reply to
Quote:
That's one minor downside to external style sheets, but I think the advantage of being able to cache the style sheet far outweighs that downside.
In the beginning, most users had slow modem based internet. So web developers wanted to make some html codes reusable by using CSS, also by caching CSS external file, to lower the bandwidth usage.
But now most users have DSL or cable internet, so these would not need to count all bytes on the webpages, no small pages required.
I don't mind being a site +10K more, but knowing, that it degrades well.


Quote:
I'd have to disagree with things being unreadable. If the correct markup has been used, it should be fairly readable without the stylesheets.
Oh, it was not a critics of GT or the CSS. It was the critics of those sites, which used CSS in unlimited way, so when saved to HD, it became unreadable. I'm careful, so I use CSS in limited way, to degrade well, in non-CSS browser environment, too.
I will test sometime how 'luna' degrades...

Best regards,
Webmaster33


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