You mean they decided to abandon the Perl version, claiming that the PHP version was actually faster. I'd like to see some benchmarks with a server loaded up with mod_perl delivering the forum. Or maybe it's just louzy coding in the Perl version?

- wil

I'd like to see a PHP cgi script (NOT mod_php) try to compete with a Perl CGI .

I'm assuming that PHP can even do cgi's though... Maybe it can't...

---

Jason Rhinelander
Gossamer Threads
jason@gossamer-threads.com

Yes, it can do CGIs. And the guys behind WWWThreads are actually claiming that doing it through PHP would be faster, and even with mod_perl loaded you would not be able to beat the speed of their PHP version.

Which leads me to believe that it must be a case of very louzy coding on the Perl side.

- wil

As Scream pointed out, few hosting service will allow you to run mod_perl. He's a very good programmer, I think.

PHP is a lot easier for non-programmers to come to grips with, so the market will be much bigger. Perl scripts like GT produces run the risk of being labelled "For Perl Programmers only". If you want your market to include all the part-time, non-programmer Web masters out there, then you need to make sure that your scripts have an excellent and easy to use admin interface.
samantha

Or that they dropped perl and want to lose as few perl customers as possible.

Cheers,

Alex
--
Gossamer Threads Inc.

This is what I think about that whole Infopop buying w3t deal. Infopop knows UBB can't really compete with the other faster, better products on the market. So they went and got WWWThreads. But the problem is that WWWThreads has a Perl and PHP version... They can't just drop UBB since that would be just implying that their product is not as good. They also can't merge it with WWWThreads, as they're very different programs. So, the other solution would be to drop the WWWThreads Perl version and keep UBB, and keep on developing the PHP version. Or maybe there are lots of people who like UBB because it's flatfile based...

Adrian

But the UBB is PHP based? So developing the WWWThreads Perl version would of been a better decision as they could then offer a broader spectrum of products? They could of offered the PHP UBB to non-programmers (as Susanne pointed out) and the more powerful WWWThreads to more experienced web masters.

Although I believe this point is completly invalid. You don't need any experience of Perl whatsoever to run GossamerForum, as anyone who has isntalled it will tell you.

It just seems to me at the end of the day that they are trying to either save money by cutting out all their perl programmers from the loop, or they actually don't feel that their perl code can compete with the others on the market.

Cheers

Wil

- wil

The vast majority of UBB implementations are version 5, which is a PERL script. UBB6 has a PHP wrapper, I think, but is not an PHP script. In any event, the tepid response to UBB6 probably prompted Infopop to start thinking about a PHP board, as they were losing many potential upgraders to vBulletin. Scream, the W3T programmer, noted when the acquistion was being discussed, that almost all his new licenses were for the PHP version.


Eh, what others? :)


samantha

I think that might be some infopop pr work justifying dropping perl version. I heard different numbers when I asked Rick about php vs perl about two months ago.

Cheers,

Alex
--
Gossamer Threads Inc.

It seems that a lot more inexperienced web "developers" are starting to develop their own sites then, thinking that the PHP versions are more user-friendly and easier to install. That's the only reason I could think of.

- wil

I wonder if a lot of the php craze is due to the fact that lots of good code and good scripts are GNU/GPL which means you can throw together a decent site relatively simply and cheaply. hey, just look at all the nuke users out there! why not, get lots, I mean lots of function for just a simple link back to their site or not even that. I found 3 different scripts that compete pretty well with links regular. and there are good boards out there too. dbman is the only one that GT definately has a strong hold on.

NOW, don't get me wrong, I'm not even any where knocking GT, it's just that alot of young folks are getting on the net wagon, with little or no cash, and can slap together a pretty decent site with the help of lot's of php fanatics. look at the power and bonding between mac users.

Also, I do know that the SQl versions from GT just about blows everything else out of the water, but ... come on with a limited budget that fire power is only a dream. (look at the taliban with their homemade weapons and pickup trucks that imitate tanks -- they really have a dream going on but that dream sent Russis packing with it's tail between it's legs)

hmmm ... at least GT is well established and any site that ues GT products can't go wrong, well at least in my opinion. I just wonder what GT will do in a few years? Will, the net still be around as we know it now?

???

---

openoffice + gimp + sketch ...

> NOW, don't get me wrong, I'm not even any where knocking
> GT, it's just that alot of young folks are getting on the net wagon,
> with little or no cash, and can slap together a pretty decent site with
> the help of lot's of php fanatics. look at the power and bonding
> between mac users.

This used to be the case of Perl years ago. Remember Matts Script Archive at http://www.worldwidemart.com/ -- that used to be the place for all your free CGI/Perl scripts. Until the guy went off to Uni and everyone realised his scripts were crap and full of security loopholes.

Jeepers. I think he really started off the whole free scripts craze. Or I'm sure he was one of the root people to start coding and throwing away his stuff for free. After that came the CGI Resource Index, which is now more or less dead too. Selena Sol, and so on and so on...

Sigh. Those were the days.

I'm just wondering why has the shift moved from perl to php recently? There's been a dramatic shift from everyone jumping ship from Perl to PHP for their free scripts, and little forms etc. etc. All the big complex programs are still written in Perl, and other languages, even some still in Python. <shudder>.

I'm just wondering what the catalyst for this big jump has been? I miss the good old days of the Perl community. Not saying that it's dying, it's as strong as ever, maybe even stronger, maturer and wiser.. but there was a real sense of perl everything on the net a few years back. Now that seems a little distorted as of late.

- wil

Whats all this good old days stuff...lol you are 19. In the good old days you were still going through puberty.

good ol days or not ... I know what you're saying. When I got involved with making my own homepage back a few years ago. I remember the cgi-resource center and over 70% shareware or at least linkware. After which lot's of scripts went to buy me systems.

Also, lots of hosting services were being very protective about CGI and SSI usage. Sercurity of course.

At which time, the newbie came out - php. With promises of easier use, speed and a more of a built for sql language. Also, at the same time. SQL was starting to take hold in a lot more servers. These SQL based hosting solutions were probably based at places which sprouted up with the .com boom time. Which were offering cheap and decent service. (I'm sure lot's of other variables came into effect at the same time).

So, you have a wave of folks catching on to the band wagon and to be in with the others. Offered lot's of decent scripts as GNU/GPL.

But, the creep effect has already started. Lot's of efficent scripts are finally arriving and with them prices and shareware have started to replace the 1st generation of freebie goods.

Within another year I bet php will be like perl. 70% shareware/buy me and 30% hey here's a freebie.

What will happen after that ??? I would love to know. I figured knowing Java, Perl, and php would be nice little buffer to protect yourself for a bit. After that ... mmm ... possibly RUBY might get bigger. And I have been digging around about WebObjects ... doesn't make much sense for me to use since I got GT but thought that such type of systems might finally put ASP into it's grave finally.

oh no starting to ramble.

---

openoffice + gimp + sketch ...

IMO there are too many php myths.

Please someone tell me why they think php is "easier" than perl

Because you can do more complex stuff in Perl that PHP can't, so naturally PHP's GOT to be 'easier'. hehe

Perl's and PHP's syntax is pretty similar, except I find PHP's syntax more strict and everything is function based (or whatever you'd call it). For example, I find it extremely annoying that I have to go:
When you can just do:
in Perl. And we all know how useful regex's are and how often you use them in most web oriented programs/scripts.

What's 'easy' about PHP is that most things are just built in (kinda). With Perl, you do have to know which modules you need to load to do and such.

I'm too lazy to think of any more differences, so I'll leave it at

Adrian

Ooh, how about that idiotic thing we came across the other day? In PHP, you can't get the form input from this HTML multi-select list:


You'll only get either the last (or the first, I don't remember which) item selected, even though it is a MULTI-select.

You instead have to do something idiotic:


Notice the [] after the name. But then, your input is just 'foo', not 'foo[]'. Am I the only one who thinks that is just plain dumb?

And they try to say PHP is better

---

Jason Rhinelander
Gossamer Threads
jason@gossamer-threads.com

I tried to write some php code a while ago and gave up after 10 minutes when I realised I needed to use up a whole line for something that would take a 1/4 of that in perl.

I like using php scripts but ugh...I would never wish to write one.

Everything seems so lengthy and unnecessary. eregi_replace and echo this, echo that...and thats the tip of the iceberg

Try having to convert the LinksSQL frontend to use PHP instead of Perl

Adrian

Aww, your almost done though. =)

Cheers,

Alex
--
Gossamer Threads Inc.

What's puberty ;-)

I mean the good old days of the net. Round the time Mosaic was alive and well, and then NS came on the scence..... Where usenet was actually worth pouring through... Those were the days for me. I was young, yeah, 13 14 or 15 maybe?

- wil

Mhph.

- wil

I'll leave that to you if it's all the same :)

preg_replace('/foo/', 'bar', $foo);

I think you can leave "$foo = " out. Can't be bothered testing it, but I'm fairly sure that would work.

I don't see what the big deal about making the PHP Frontend to Links SQL. The backend is the hard part -> The front end is the simple bit which is easier in PHP.

Cheers,
Michael Bray

Still doesn't beat perl.

preg_replace('/foo/', 'bar'); 28 chars

s/foo/bar/; 11 chars....less than half the length.