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a sense of community

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
I personally don't feel that I, as a moderator or user, have made rude posts. If I ever have I apologise for myself as I never really mean it. sitting at the computer can really make me uptight Frown

I won't say anything about other moderators, as it will probably lead to an argument Wink

As for GT's position in this, it is very hard for them to keep the forums under control, but rest assured rude posts that are made by moderators ARE reported!

Andy

webmaster@ace-installer.com
http://www.ace-installer.com
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
In Reply To:
Some of the most rude posts come from the 'moderators' of this board. Then when their rudeness is responded to they simple edit or delete their posts.
The other 50% or so of rude posts come from general users -- who, BTW, can also edit and delete their posts as well.
In Reply To:
They claim to be 'helping' (like Mother Teresa) but, what their really doing is promoting and selling their services.
I doubt if anyone is truely here for the sole purpose of promoting their own services. However, quite a bit of users -- not just moderators -- have links to their websites and/or offer installation/modification services.
In Reply To:
Seems to me that Gossamer should at least recognize who these people are and remove them, at least as "Moderators".
If GT were to remove rude moderators, it makes only sense to remove rude users as well. why eliminate only half the problem?
In Reply To:
I would think that as a Moderator of this board they must represent Gossamer Threads
But they don't. The moderators represent the forum community. If they were paid, then they'd be representing GT. Otherwise, it remains a public forum with selected leaders.
In Reply To:
it's beyond me why a company would endorse such representation.
I doubt GT endorses unprofessional behavior
In Reply To:
Gossamer made a decision that this forum would be their 'how to manual'
agreed
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ultimately they're responsible for the 'feel' of this forum
No, the end user is responsible for the outlook of the forum. My guess is that this forum is "provided as is, without warranty or responsiblity" like every free service in the world.

--Drew
Links 2.0 stuff
http://www.camelsoup.com
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
I know this is very Martha Stewart -ish, but here goes:

On my boards, about once a month, I remind folks that they are what makes the community so great. It means that everyone act in a welcoming manor, that they treat each other with respect and dignity, and they they are the ones responsible for the positive vibe.

Now, that said, it is not really true. LOL. I post those notes once a month, I reward positive behavoir, I don't tolerate crap on the boards. In other words, a community is an alive and sometimes volitle place. Someone has to play god and "encourage it along".

It aint just going to happen on its own. :)

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Junko,

I agree that users and moderators should be treated the same.

My point on Moderators is that, in a way, they do represent Gossamer. How did they become a moderator?

Paid or not should not matter, they volunteered and are responsible for this forum. It's up to them to set the tone.

They are suppose to put out the fires not fan the flames.

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
well i have to agree with a lot of these posts here, i have searched the forums for a few days now and all i see is Anthro saying time and time again search the bloody forums or this has been answered before.

Why does he bother, go home, if you can't be bothered answering do us a favour, don't post a message at all

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
RWhite and Evoir:
GT has little interaction with the forum users and that's why they've appointed moderators. The moderators act as a intermediary between the the community and the company, but I disagree that they are directly representative of the company and responsible for the behavior of the users. Moderators can, of course, encourage positive attitudes, but cannot control the users.

billyaged2:
Anthrorules has a very good reason to post "please search the forum". 9 times of 10, your question has been asked to death. These types of replies are done mostly out of respect for GT's server space. We don't need to be flooding the forum with redundant posts. However, it's my opinion that if it's found that certain questions are repeated, the answer should be added to the resource center and then linked to whenever the question is asked in the future, regardless of the nature of the post (the top repeated question or not), and no more "search the forum" messages should be added.

--Drew
Links 2.0 stuff
http://www.camelsoup.com
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Hi Junko, I was in two minds too mention Anthro's name, its not solely his fault. I do agree with you that a better source of resources should be made available. As you said, instead of people saying please seach the forums they could be instead refered to a certain FAQ topic instead.

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Junko,
I think the fact that Alex has nearly 4000 posts in this forum suggests GT has a lot of interaction in these forums.

They also advertise this as their support forum, if that's not a direct representation, I don't know what is.



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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Hm.. here are some general guidelines for posting to the forum:
The resource center should be searched before posting a new topic.
Then if no solution is found, please search the forum.
Then if you still can't find a solution, please do post your question.
Be as detailed as posible. Post a link or two to threads/resources where similar issues have been addressed.
If you've found what you think is the answer to your post, but just need further clarification, let us know.
Be patient if you don't get an immediate reply.
If you find the solution to your problem yourself, please share it with others.

--Drew
Links 2.0 stuff
http://www.camelsoup.com
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
In Reply To:
I think the fact that Alex has nearly 4000 posts in this forum suggests GT has a lot of interaction in these forums.
Alex is generally the only GT staff member that actually visits the forum. And even then, generally only visits the Links SQL 2.x and Gossamer-Mail forums. There are about a dozen forums that rarely get a message from Alex or GT at all. This is what I mean by "little interaction".

--Drew
Links 2.0 stuff
http://www.camelsoup.com
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
WOW!!!
Just reading this whole post, just makes me think of the real need for a users manual on this product. (Links SQL is what I use) People who don't know getting frustrated at people who do know, and vice-versa.

I'm sure it's been said before but, give me a book (like.... LinksSQL for Idiots), let me read it, then when I come to this forum I won't ask such stupid questions.

Then instead of 'Search the forums' you can get an answer like 'read chapter 2' for all your idiotic posts. :)

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
I know I said this in an earlier post, but I really do believe that there would be a lot fewer "stupid" questions if LinksSQL had a proper, detailed manual. I may be a newbie here, but I'm not a newbie everywhere, so I often know when I'm asking a question that will appear silly to experienced users. And I do search the forums for an answer first, but often the "answers" I find are themselves confusing to me, a newbie.

I'm not talking here about a simple how-to manual that says things like "The file menu contains 6 commands. The first command...etc., etc." What is really needed is a "LinksSQL for Dummies" or "LinksSQL in 21 Days". Something aimed at the novice user. I would be more than willing to fork out $50 or more for a really good book or manual. I've learned most of what I know about computing from reading books like this and practicing on my own. Then, when I ask questions on forums, I can ask with more confidence and appear not so dumb.

If any of you are considering writing such a thing, make sure you do so in consultation with writers, editors, users, etc. Most manuals are useless because they are either trivial or go way over the heads of the people who need them most.

I've seen part of the forthcoming manual for LinksSQL, and from what I've seen, it is not nearly detailed enough. It's very how-to oriented and doesn't help give the "big picture" of how this whole system hangs together. It's helpful to a degree, but much better documentation is needed.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers to all.


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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Clueless,

Wow, that was weird! I apologize if I appeared to reiterate what you said in my previous post. When I logged in, I didn't notice the second page of responses and so I hadn't seen your post when I wrote mine. Pretty amazing that we both talked about Links for Idiots/Dummies. Which one are you, idiot or dummy? :)

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
As Alex has mentioned on a few occassions in the Forums, GT has hired a technical writer who will be writing robust and user-friendly manuals for all GT products. I think it will be a matter of time (short) that manuals will be available for all GT products...at least the more active ones, including LINKS SQL, GM, and DBMAN SQL.

Regards,

Eliot Lee
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
cco,
I'm the Idiot ..Your the Dummy. Dummy! :)


Oh... and I'm glad someone in the world thinks like me. For a long time I thought it was just the Prozac. :)
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
I resisted the urge to post so far but..it would be great if the manual (the "links sql for dummies"..or any other gt script) was very detailed. I have read they are writing something rigth now so I guess my opinion (as long as I am not the only one who feels this way) migth help. I' ve read books where they develop some applications as examples...examples that I couldn't care less about.

It would be really good to have a book (online or offline) that you can use to learn pearl/programming and links sql (or any other GT program). I guess this is beyond what they are planning for links sql manual but I always thought a "experienced user" could do something like that. Now maybe GT can finish this "manual" and then add a more complete one and charge something for it (the manual should be enough for users wanting to learn everything about Links sql..the extended version could be all that plus more knowledge on the way the code works (kind of like a perl book)).

Anyway this is just an idea that I had for some time...I would love to know more about the program and be able to apply that knowledge to other perl things like my own hacks (or other programs)

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
I'm just an Clueless idiot but..........

What many of the veterans of this forum need to understand is that when most of us purchased this program we thought a Perl was a 'Pearl'.

I myself used ASP and MS Access to create directories and the way I found out that Gossamer existed and Links was available is that someone didn't change their validate email message.

When I first came here I thought it was the answer to my prayers. But, there's a learning curve. What you think will be easy if you buy this program, turns out to be a pain. (I now have to dust my Frontpage, ASP, and Access books) I guess the really frustration in being a "Newbie" is that you know (or hope?) your not an idiot, your just ignorant.

I was once ignorant to the fact that a Caesar salad came with 'Caesar dressing'.

'Can I take your order?'

"Yes, I'll have the Caesar salad with Italian dressing"

Now, If that's not ignorant.....

(TRUE STORY the worst is I had to put the Italian dressing on the Caesar salad and eat it. 'Wouldn't want anyone to know I was ignorant')


I guess my point is (if there is one) is that stupid and ignorant are two totally different things. And the most likely reason that that people take offense to the answers they get in this forum is that they're not stupid, they're ignorant.

And that's where a manual comes in!

(before you all abuse me for calling people ignorant, look it up in a dictionary.)



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Re: a sense of community In reply to
no no, i'm the idiot! hahahaha

I meant ignorant. Or clueless.

No matter if we have the best FAQ and users manual, we still need to be able to talk to each other and feel comfortable with asking for help from each other. Also so we can feel comfortable offering help to others. This is why I started this topic. So we can work on building community, so we can get to know one another....:)



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Re: a sense of community In reply to
IMHO, these forums serve the purpose of technical support and information gathering, not CHIT CHAT. As referenced a few other times in this FORUM, there are plenty of other places on the Net to chit chat, but not here in GT forums, IMHO.

Regards,

Eliot Lee
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
I wrote "we still need to be able to talk to each other and feel comfortable with asking for help from each other. Also so we can feel comfortable offering help to others." and you call that chit chat?

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Eliot (I think) was referring to:

In Reply To:
So we can work on building community, so we can get to know one another....:)

Installs:http://wiredon.net/gt
FAQ:http://www.perlmad.com

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Re: a sense of community In reply to
Yes...that is what I was referring to.

Regards,

Eliot Lee
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
What would motivate you (or anyone) to help anyone else, or me to help someone else if there is no sense of community?

Clearly, it is not working now. I mean, folks are saying (on both sides if you will) that they are uncomfortable. The folks who know more are annoyed that people don't do searches. The folks who don't know much are searching and not finding the answer or being confused, and getting scolded or very short answers.

I'm not talking about having coffee and donuts, I'm talking about creating a forum perhaps for folks to talk about How we use LinksSQL or something like that. A place where we can talk about the practical applications of these applications.

I suggest we open some new areas of the forums:
1) a newbies area for each product. This would be a place for newbies to feel free to ask the dumbest questions.... and the folks who want to help those folks learn can engage in thsoe forums.

2) a more conversational forum for each product-based on "How do you use LinksSQL on your site" or "How do you use DBmanSQL on your site" Maybe each area should be called Practical Applications of __________.

This could be a place where folks talk about the strategies they employed while setting up a personals site with DBman, or a content management tool with LinksSQL.

And the truth be told, no matter how good the FAQ is, some people still need good old fashion interaction to learn things. Not saying that everyone has to participate. Folks who don't want to build community can just not engage in it. Simple as that.


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Re: a sense of community In reply to
In Reply To:

I'm not talking about having coffee and donuts, I'm talking about creating a forum perhaps for folks to talk about How we use LinksSQL or something like that. A place where we can talk about the practical applications of these applications.


That is what the Links SQL Discussion or the general Discussion Forums are for. No need to create additional forums, IMHO.

In Reply To:

2) a more conversational forum for each product-based on "How do you use LinksSQL on your site" or "How do you use DBmanSQL on your site" Maybe each area should be called Practical Applications of __________.


Again, that is what the "Discussion" forums are for, and also there are Site In Action sections for all GT products where you can peruse other product web sites and if you want to discuss strategy with them, then email them via their web sites.

Regards,

Eliot Lee
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Re: a sense of community In reply to
i haven't seen a 'community' anything like this. i use another software (message board) created by another company but their support forums are much more supportive than this one. I don't want to put anyone down because I have been helped a lot here by the moderators. It's just that in every single reply I get it's either sarcastic or downright rude. It's very discouraging for newbies like me. We all want to learn the ins and outs of the software and for us to do that we ask questions. It's also funny that whenever I am directed to another link by a moderator, I read the same nostalgic message wherein a newbie is being reprimanded for asking the same question.

See, searching for an answer isn't quite that simple because not all of us have the same problems and most of us do not know what query we should make with regards to the terms used in the software.

It's very frustrating you know, when you try to search for something that isn't there and at the same time avoid posting a message at the risk of getting another slap in the face. There actually came a point when i was close to quitting and switch to another search engine program. But what can i do, i've spent so much time on this one i can't turn back now.

Let's make this a community for learning, not for a battle of wits. that way achieving our goals will be more of a pleasant experience than a struggle.

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