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Please suggest an online payment system

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Please suggest an online payment system
Hello,

We do not do very much online business. Mostly we get small donations from people - a few thousand per year. We have been using paypal for this but would like to change to a new system. We are hoping that the system will be very simple and secure for the user and not cost us a lot of money.

What do you suggest?

thanks,
bob


.:SEAWEAD:.
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Re: [baidarkabob] Please suggest an online payment system In reply to
Hi,

Why do you want to switch from paypal? Are you looking for a system that will take credit cards rather then requiring a paypal account?

Cheers,

Alex
--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: [Alex] Please suggest an online payment system In reply to
That is a big part of it Alex. Also I have had some bad experiences with paypal not paying...

bob


.:SEAWEAD:.
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Re: [baidarkabob] Please suggest an online payment system In reply to
http://www.moneybookers.com is pretty good (not that high fees either).

PayPal are good... but as you just said; they do have quite high fees (I used to pay ú1GB to send even $20 into my bank ... as well as a rubbish exchange rate).

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
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Re: [baidarkabob] Please suggest an online payment system In reply to
Paypal is an eBay company, and plays by the same abritrary rules eBay does when dealing with people.
They are not a bank any more, and any money in your "paypal account" is fair game for them to flat out steal.
Go fight them to get it back!

Electronic checks can be reversed by your bank for up to 60 days, for any reasons. Why paypal doesn't point this out, or make it clear that "checks" are not more secure, and actually pushes people to accept checks, is really unclear. Any bank account tied into the payment system is at risk. We have two accounts, one we accept electronic payments to, and one where any sort of electronic deposit/withdrawal is disabled. We manually transfer funds regularly.

Paypal is a 3rd-party intermediary in the credit card system, which technically is in violation of the rules. They are running a charge, on behalf of you. In short, any question to that charge, they immediately refund. The credit card holder no longer has a complaint, and you as the seller, didn't have an account with the credit card company in that transaction, so you can't complain either... Rigged system, huh?

PayPal started out as X.com, which had "bank" status. They lost that after about a year.

Micro transaction systems, like "tokens", are legal, in that with your credit card you purchase a token (or group of tokens) that you can spend on sites that accept tokens. One credit card transaction -- eg: purchase of tokens -- is made, and what you are buying is access to a service that lets you access other sites -- you are not doing individual transactions. This is legal, but has problems.

It's one-way, more or less.
It requires users to pre-purchase items, and amounts, and maybe the service or the site will go out of business.

We've tried to set up a micro-payment system under "TokenBooth.com" for about a decade. The technology has *NOT* been available to make it successful.

Maybe with the new Links SQL + Payment module, we'll reevaluate it.

It's *PERFECT* for adult sites. Why?

Once a user purchases "tokens" what that user spends them on is their business. It is not part of the credit card system, it's not public record, and it's covered by privacy issues.

No refunds of tokens are allowed, and charge-backs can be kept to a minimum by proper security software, and notices that all charges are non-refundable, and tokens may not be redeemed for cash or credit. Email, even "phone" verification of all charges can lower the costs even more. It depends on how paranoid you want to be.

It cuts down on the immediacy of the access, which is something most adult (and scam) sites live on. People want access *NOW* and "anonymously".

The advantages for a adult, or even chat network, is that only the Token dispenser knows who actually has tokens, and where they are spent. The individual sites only know they are getting tokens for the access. Individual sites can set up other entry requirements, or use the assigned token id.

In an automated system, the user deposits tokens, their account is debited, they confirm the debit, and they are granted access.

Once the charges are run, there are no "lost cash" problems on the transaction, and if tokens are refunded, it's a virtual loss, not a real one, and never hits the MC/Visa/etc system. Only the initial token purchase can be disputed, and if it's properly executed, risks are minimal.

Such a network would rely on a large amount of non-adult content, where adult content is just one option in a multitude of choices. If it was all for adult access, the credit card companies would have a legitimate issue with potentially providing access.

Such a token system would be great for people who need to take small amounts of money, especially if there were loads of places for people to spend their money.

The overhead for such a system is high for small charges. A $10 charge would have almost a 50% overhead, meaning only $5 from that would be disbursed to webmasters. A $25 charge could disburse closer to $18. There is some inequity built into this, unless tokens were discounted at different rates. eg: $10 gives you blue tokens, $25 gives you red tokens, etc. A service fee could be charged, but that causes credit card system problems. A "Fill Up" fee of $5 plus a percentage of each transaction might solve the problem, but it's not "friendly" to customers.

I know this isn't totally on topic to this, but it's something I've put a lot of thought into, and it's something that small directories, all running under Links SQL & Community (especially if there is remote log ons) could share in, and encourage users to join, by getting tokens usable on a wide network of other sites -- all anonymously. And, there is no webmaster incentive to get people signed up, since they only get paid when tokens are SPENT, not purchased. (This is the part of the inequity in all the AVS systems, I was trying to address.)

This is something I'm sure Andy and I could get together, and finally integrate into some of our [planned] OEM products, such as the Gallery. Developing this is a key to several of the larger projects I've wanted to do, and it works *much* better for a classifieds, sales, or gallery directory where users can make one larger purchase or charge, and then spend "tokens" or "credits" on smaller items as they want them. They don't need a "shopping cart" for virtual products, just credits.

Anyway, it's worth thinking about, and bringing up again, because the technology is here, or almost here, and it's something that is [eventually] going to be added into several of our products.


PUGDOG´┐Ż Enterprises, Inc.

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Re: [pugdog] Please suggest an online payment system In reply to
Might seem a moot point but must ask....
The issue of purchasing tokens, stamps, credits or whatever name you want to call it. Does your comments refer to the transaction taking place at the source, ie, paypal, then from that point on become tokens. Or does it equally apply to the purchase then at the website concerned, the dollar value split up and then get converted to tokens.

I ask this because the latter is what I do on one of my sites, it is a matchmaker and that scenario is actually very common as a means of exchange and currency on such sites.
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Re: [Gypsypup] Please suggest an online payment system In reply to
I'm not sure what you are asking, but the person purchases "tokens" or whatever, from the shopping cart/ecommerce software.

Whomever processes the payments is a behind the scene issue.

The main point here, is the website(s) issuing the tokens (the token booth, if it were) runs the single charge, and gives you the "currency" to spend on-line, without going through the credit system more than once.


PUGDOG´┐Ż Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.