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Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products

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Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products
I consider this information very valuable as I've searched for a long time a Perl library like this. It's a graph library very easy to implement and with tons of interesting features that renders beautiful charts with lots of options (shadow, transparency, etc.).
I have downloaded it and read the documentation... It's very easy to implement and there are various prebuilt Perl scripts and example code.

I would like to have this implemented into GT products (GLinks, GForum and possibly GCommunity) for generating charts of values that are presented as plain text (imagine links ranking in GLinks with a 3D transparent pie chart and polls in Gforum with such an output). There are endless possibilities with such a powerful library and I'm sure that if GT takes my idea seriously their products will have a great advantage over competition, gaining in customer appeal (since there are NO available scripts capable of this right out of the box). Cool

For my personal needs, I would pay for a modification of an already built Poll script that outputs charts using that library and after that an integration of this script with GCommunity.
I would like to know from GT (or any programmer interested) how much will this cost...

If GT will not consider my idea (but I DO hope they will), I will purchase the lib myself for my server but here's a plan: GT could purchase the "Redistribute License" which costs 499 dollars that gives "the right to embed ChartDirector runtime -the lib I'm talking about- in a product or system that is not for ChartDirector software development, and to redistribute that product or system to unlimited number of computers without further royalties".
I think this could be a tremendously good investment that will give you the right to incorporate and use that lib into GT (since one of the lib's features is that it doesn't need installation on the server system but can be bundled in a script like GT libs are).

So here's the URL: http://www.advsofteng.com
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)

Last edited by:

maxpico: Apr 19, 2005, 12:54 PM
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Re: [maxpico] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Yes please! This would really help in getting away from a text heavy site into something far more visually interesting for everybody.
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Re: [Piers1] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
so... That was a bad idea? Unsure
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)
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Re: [maxpico] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Hmmmm, I see you are still waiting. I think it's a terrific idea! Smile
We would have an easy way to present ratings, votes, what's cool, etc. in a visually interesting way.
I hope someone at GT sits up and takes notice. Angelic
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Re: [jgkiefer] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Yeah.. Too bad GT it's not interested at the moment.
Well I've purchased the lib myself and I'll be using it shortly in a modified perl script for polls, surveys and contests. This script will be integrated with GCommunity too.
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)

Last edited by:

maxpico: Aug 8, 2005, 4:08 AM
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Re: [maxpico] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
I would be interested in hearing how it turns out. Maybe you could make your plugins available and recoup your investment?
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Re: [jgkiefer] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Yes I could do that but it depends on how much interest there's for.
The ChartDirector part is finished, I'll be deploying it in a few days. The Gcommunity plugin will come later.

Lots of developers are not interested in "eye-candy stuff" that's why there are no php/perl scripts that can offer this type of output. But users are, believe me.
I've invested in this lib because it will take my site to the next level and rise customer appeal. Imagine if to invest is a company that sells scripts like GT... That investment multiplies.
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)

Last edited by:

maxpico: Aug 10, 2005, 9:44 AM
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Re: [maxpico] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Sorry for replying to your thread too late. I just found it.

There are some free image libraries, like GD, ImageMagick, or NetPBM. These can be used for such tasks. Maybe ChartDirector is specialized in creating charts, so it might be easier to use, but these tasks can be also solved using the listed free grapic tools.
Personally my favourite is ImageMagick, because of its flexibility. It can be used for similar tasks, what for example a Photoshop or GIMP image editing software can do. Unfortunately it doesn't have chart related features, but simple charts can be created using its shape drawing features. The GD lib is also similarly used for drawing charts.


Anyway I checked the ChartDirector website, and I see advantages of it. The chart creating becomes so simplified, that even a beginner Perl programmer can quickly create charts. So altough most of these charting tasks can be done using ImageMagick and GD, for free.


However the idea, for GT to buy include is not bad. All GT software could really benefit from this software, as it makes chart creation a quick & easy task for the GT & plugin developers.
But note, your quoted price was not correct, as it would cost much more... The ChartDirector Redistribute License for All Platforms costs USD 749. Further problem, that all future upgrades costs further money for GT, as the price includes ONLY one year free upgrade. So it would cost for GT a one-time $749 price, plus around $190-$380 per year to keep the chart library up-to-date.

Also note, this cost would be just for one product.
So including the ChartDirector lib into 5 GT products would cost, a one-time $3745, plus yearly $1900 upgrading cost to keep the library up-to-date.


The question is, if GT can benefit enough from this charting library or not. If GT can improve the GT software so much, that the sellings of the GT software will highly increasing, then yes, this is a valueable idea.
I would support to have this charting library included into GT apps, however, this would likely mean that GT users will have to take part from cost of the charting library, by upgrade fees or by software price increasing, which would likely not make GT users glad.

So the final question is, what we get by having the lib included, and how much will we pay for this extra feature?

Best regards,
Webmaster33


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Re: [webmaster33] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Nope..
First, everyone knows ImageMagick and GD but they do not come even close to the charting quality of ChartDirector primarly because they are not intended for charts. This lib produces such professional images that ImageMagick and GD look simply ridiculous. In addition, Chartdirector can be bundled in a Perl script without being installed on the whole server system like the other libs (and this is an enormous advantage because almost every client can use it). Plus, as you said, it is so easy to implement that GT would spend very little time to enable all its product with this lib.

My price was correct. The 499 price is the Redistribute License for Windows, Linux and FreeBSD (probably over 95 per cent of GT scripts deployments); of course, is better if GT buys the All Platforms license. And the Redistribute License enables to redistribute an unlimited number of the ChartDirector lib within a system (GT scripts). So it's false that GT would need to buy a Redistribute License for each script. They could also use it for other projects as you can use this lib, once you have a license, in all its supported programming languages (Perl, PHP, ASP, C++, JSP/Java, Python).
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)
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Re: [maxpico] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Quote:
First, everyone knows ImageMagick and GD but they do not come even close to the charting quality of ChartDirector primarly because they are not intended for charts.
First, I know the reasons you listed. I also aggreed this in my post, that ChartDirector really simplifies the chart creation. I just noted, that GD or Imagemagick can be also used for SIMPLE charting for FREE. Simple is the keyword, as if you have money to buy the ChartDirector lib, yes, it's better to use it, as it makes the work easier.


Quote:
My price was correct. The 499 price is the Redistribute License for Windows, Linux and FreeBSD (probably over 95 per cent of GT scripts deployments);
Secondly, unfortunately I have to tell you again, that your quoted price was not the correct one. Here is the quote from the site:
Quote:
ChartDirector Redistribute License
for Windows/Linux/FreeBSD
License for royalty free redistribution of ChartDirector runtime on Windows, Linux or FreeBSD.
Provides the right to embed ChartDirector runtime in a product or system that is not for ChartDirector software development, and to redistribute that product or system to unlimited number of computers without further royalties to ASE.
USD 499
Note the small highlighted "or" word.

And here is for any operation system:
Quote:
ChartDirector Redistribute License
for All Platforms
License for royalty free redistribution of ChartDirector runtime on any operating system.
Provides the right to embed ChartDirector runtime in a product or system that is not for ChartDirector software development, and to redistribute that product or system to unlimited number of computers without further royalties to ASE.
USD 749


Quote:
of course, is better if GT buys the All Platforms license.
I think it's better to say, the only acceptable solution is if GT buys the All Platforms license. Because GT products are crossOS software, which are working on Windows & Linux, too (thanks to Perl and GT's careful development).


Quote:
So it's false that GT would need to buy a Redistribute License for each script.
Sorry Max, I have to disagree again with you. No, it isn't false.
Each product requires new redistribute license.

See again my quotes from their site:
Quote:
Provides the right to embed ChartDirector runtime in a product or system that is not for ChartDirector software development, and to redistribute that product or system to unlimited number of computers without further royalties to ASE
The "a product" means, implementation is allowed into only one script, which can be sold to unlimited users. But another script needs another redistribute license.


These are the facts what I can read from ChartDirector's Purchase page.
So my calculations in my previous post are unfortunately valid, or at least close to the real-world case.

Best regards,
Webmaster33


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Re: [webmaster33] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
ImageMagick and GD can be deployed on a limited number of clients and produce poor results; they're not even worth mentioning. ChartDirector it's not just easy to use; it takes products to a whole new level, that's why I bought it. There are graph libs of the same level of ChartDirector but they're not for Perl unfortunately, just Java.

Again you misinterpret that page.
I have purchased ChartDirector (Developer License) and asked exactly that. They clarified that the 499 License can run on either Windows, Linux and FreeBSD. This redistribute license is "for redistributing the ChartDirector runtime to an unlimited number of computers.".
GT would need to buy this one time; the All Platforms version for 100 per 100 client coverage.
However, GT is not interested in that at the moment so this discussion is pretty useless right now Wink
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)

Last edited by:

maxpico: Aug 18, 2005, 5:46 AM
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Re: [maxpico] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Let me fix your statement about IM & GD.

Quote:
ImageMagick and GD can be deployed on a limited number of clients and produce poor results
There is no limits that how many clients can use ImageMagick or GD.
Also it is not producing poor results. It does well exactly what it was planned to do. It was planned to do atomic tasks, and was not their task to produce charts. Note, however that with these atomic tasks charts can be still correctly created.

As for the misinterpretation, I'm sure in what I wrote, as it was correctly described in ChartDirector Purchase page.
But as you noted, this discussion is pretty useless right now as, GT is not interested to buy ChartDirector at the moment.

Best regards,
Webmaster33


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from Webmaster33. Expert in Perl programming & Gossamer Threads applications. (click here for prices)
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Re: [webmaster33] Integrating a really good graph lib into GT products In reply to
Yes there are limits on how many clients (of GT scripts) can use ImageMagick and GD because they're libraries that need to be installed on a system level and many hosting companies do not offer them. Instead, the Perl version of ChartDirector can be bundled into the scripts distribution and does not need to be installed on a system level, thus greatly increasing the number of GT clients that can use it.
We are discussing charts here and, in this area, ImageMagick and GD produce poor results; just compare the example images of charts created by those two libraries and ChartDirector, the answer is pretty straightforward.
As for the ChartDirector license, I clarified those points with the ChartDirector team before purchase so I'm sure in what I wrote.
Max
The one with Mac OS X Server 10.4 :)