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HTML Editor Comments

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HTML Editor Comments
Alex has asked the GT community to respond about the HTML Editor program they are working on:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/...w=collapsed&sb=5

Located at: http://gossamer-threads.com/tmp/editor/

I would like to preface the following comments with the system specs I am using (for reliability purposes):

a) Windows 95b
b) Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and 5.0
c) Dialup connection (28.8 - average 27.8)

Questions

* Why are you working on this script? I am assuming that it would be a nice add-on for FileMan. This project seems to be taking time away from developing and finishing other more important projects, like Links SQL.

Good Stuff

1) The interface is quite slick.
2) The inline markers (like form) is really cool.
3) It is really cool that you can do stuff with right clicking on your mouse or holding down your mouse if you using a Mac.
4) Really cool that you can edit the HTML source as well as use the WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get, like Microsoft Front Page or Macromedia Dreamweaver --> for those novices out there) interface.

Bad Stuff

1) Using IFRAME is only good for MIE. Of course, you could use ILAYER for Netscape.

2) The demo only works with the links you have provided. When I type in any other address, I get the following javascript error:

Code:

Line: 13
Char: 767
Error: Unterminated string constant
Code: 0
URL: http://gossamer-threads.com/tmp/editor/fetch.cgi?URL=http://www.domain.com/


3) The interface is a bit too jazzy for novice users. A person using the program would have to be familar with Windows applications.

4) It would be nice to fetch a file from a local directory. But I assume that you would need to utilize ActiveX, which posses many security risks.

5) How do you save the file? While the demo is in its earlier stages, it is unclear where the files are saved...locally or on the server?

6) It took quite awhile to download via 27,800 bps, which is the fastest that I can connect from home (don't even go there with suggestions about DSL or ISDN, etc...I live in the mountains and they are not scheduling fixing the local multi-plexers-routers until 2002). But this speed is similar in other rural regions of the world.

7) Fetching URLs from the Web is dangerous IMHO. The problem I have with WYSIWYG editors is that you can basically FETCH a whole site, add your own stuff, and the publish it as your own.

Anyway...hope this helps.

(I hope this is the appropriate forum to post responses since there is really no forum established for this type of feedback...may be something like a Testing forum would be appropriate.)

Regards,

Eliot Lee
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Hi All,

I like the idea, but i totally agree with eliot that the development of other projects is being delayed due to this and other projects, plesae can you confirm that this isnt the case.

Apart from everything that eliot has said, i cant really add anything else.

Nice bit of kit, and i havnt seen anything like this elsewhere on the net!



Regards

MDJ1
http://www.isee-multimedia.co.uk
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Alex,

The editor needs to be able to handle the custom tags ie: <%tag%>

It would be nice if it could run a script to fill in the values that "might" be there, especially if it's an image. (this could be a "macro" type process in the editor).

The values don't have to be 'precise' only an 'accurate' representatation of what would be found there ... which means the tags could be pre-compiled by an external process, and loaded from a table or hash.

As a GT editor, the program should know about all the GT tags for the program it's editing. That should be a relatively simple process.

The handling of <%if%> tags is going to be problematic....

While all these extras are pretty cool, and will be great to have, I know I am not alone in feeling that I would like to see the beta of the Links SQL before any of these bells and whistles are finalized or worked on. These extra features can be added to the subsequent beta releases of the various programs, but without the base/core programs, these features are somewhat extraneous.

How did the song go... "Keep your eye on the sparrow...." ?

PUGDOGŪ
PUGDOGŪ Enterprises, Inc.
FAQ: http://postcards.com/FAQ


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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
i like the concept of the editor. it is a nice concept
and might be interesting for many features. i think there
are quite a lot of people using links sql for something like yellow pages. it would be a nice feature to allow people to purchase extra detailed pages they can layout and design themselves with a wysiwyg editor online. e.g. like yellowmap.de. great idea if everything works fine.
there was one thing i had problems with:
if you want to define some text as heading it did not work,
was always kept as normal.

ciao
niko

http://www.master-productions.com
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Content management In reply to
I was very exited when I learned about the HTML editor. Contrary to what others here have said I think that developing the editor is a very sensible thing for GT to do, even if that may delay the SQL machine (Links SQL 2.0 or whatever).

It's all about creating tools for better content management. Content is King, but as the saying goes, The User is God.



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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Sorry - I really have to take issue with many of the comments in this thread.

Albeit there are many mods and features wanted in the basic LinksSQL program - aka LinksG2 - they are just that ... built in feature sets. There is a fully functional LinksSQL available, and people who have purchased the scripts have been able to modify for their particular use.

People such as myself, who do not yet have the skill sets to complete modifications on these scripts are the ones really waiting for LinksG2 but, I got what I paid for and so did any others who have purchased the program.

Added features in an already great program should never (okay, hardly ever) take precedence over new products and growth for a company.

In my opinion, some comments in this thread sound like those from spoiled children. "We don't need another child in our family - give me all your time and effort!"

GT provides free upgrades to licensed users - who pays the bill when all their time is spent on upgrades? They have a responsibility to themselves to continue developing new products.

Any of us in here are juggling multi-tasks and responsibilities - now, some of you want to come to the GT board and tell GT they shouldn't be doing the same thing?

Alex, the editor seems to be working great - I even used it this morning just to pull up a page and check whether I was encountering a cache issue at some point on a page within another site's "demo" - it was a cache issue and your program pulled up the actual page. <wink> That's how I happened to see this thread - was going to provide feedback on the editor.

Fetch isn't something new - your program isn't going to make or break any changes on whether people are going to steal the work of others. It is happening everywhere and a program isn't going to be able to enforce moral choices.

I really can see a huge need for your program within the services community. An ability to restrict users to specific files for fetch and certain locations - based on userid or something, for publishing would be fantastic.

Since you've indicated the program can be used for GTMail, then likely those restrictions are already in place just not evident in the preview of the program.

I'd sure be willing to test it out for a couple different uses I can see in the program.



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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
That is your opinion....IMHO, Your interpretations of messages posted in this Thread are wrong. The only reason that I posted the issue of prioritization is that many Links SQL users are frustrated that there is not a working demo of Links SQL and that the core of the program should be finished before add-ons are developed. That was my point. Calling us "spoiled children" is inaccurate and insulting! Mad

Regards,

Eliot Lee
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
I think this editor is very cool, amazing you can do that from a webpage and everything but I dont see a real use for this (and maybe I am missing something, sorry). Why not have a form and let people use the many editors available, some of them free? I dont find this easier than using frontpage (for example). I dont think having this editor (or any other for that matter) will allow people with no skills to develop a page, at least not more than other very developed programs....

As I said I am not trying to flame this project but I thought an opinion (even a probably misinformed one) would help...

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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
I agree with patagon.. I don't think any real web developer would use this editor in replacement of something like Dreamweaver which is stored locally therefore is faster, more robust. I think the program is a really cool example of how future web technology could be implemented in a variety of ways, but I don't think it would be used from a professional web developer, etc.

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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Hi Eliot,

In Reply To:
* Why are you working on this script? I am assuming that it would be a nice add-on for FileMan. This project seems to be taking time away from developing and finishing other more important projects, like Links SQL.
This was done for a variety of reasons:

1. A WYSIWYG template editor. It understands <%Links%> tags, and translates them normally.
2. A HTML Compose message editor for Gossamer Mail.
3. An integrated HTML editor for FileMan

plus a few other projects we are thinking about. It didn't take away from Links SQL development, as Scott did the bulk of the work (who is working on Gossamer Mail).

In Reply To:
Using IFRAME is only good for MIE. Of course, you could use ILAYER for Netscape.
The editor only works with IE 5 at the moment, it doesn't support Netscape (regardless of IFRAME or not).

In Reply To:
How do you save the file?
The goal of this is to have an Editor class Javascript object. If you look at the source on the main page you'll see:

Code:
<script language="JScript">
function go () {
var Edit = new iframe.Editor (
{
debug : 0,
tb_hide : ["Table", "Positioning"]
}
);
Edit.init();
var page = '';
if (page) {
Edit.set_editor_html(page);
}
}
// -->
</script>
It has two functions, set_editor_html, and get_editor_html. You can use these to get and retrieve the HTML inside the editor. The fetching of URL's was more just to pre-load the editor with some data so you could see how it works, it's not really part of the project.

Thanks for the feedback!

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
I believe it was stated, the "core of the program" is completed - that's what so many people are currently using. LinksG2 is an enhancement and total rewrite of the core program.
In Reply To:
the core of the program should be finished before add-ons are developed.
??? Somewhere there is a failure to communicate.

LinksSQL is complete - it is for sale on the GT website and has been for a substantial length of time. LinksSQL does what the product description says it will do.

The fact there is no "working demo" of the product available online is neither here nor there with any of the discussion. LinksSQL does what Links does while using MySQL for data storage as oppossed to using flat files. There is a working demo of Links.

My perception on statements such as 'don't do anything at all until my request (demands) are fulfilled' remains a valid interpretation <smile> IMHO.

Without a doubt, no real web developer is going to use the editor program to "create" a website - as indicated earlier, those are the rogue folks without an ounce of creativity who would use the program for something like that.

Where I do see the value would be in applications such as:
Offering a realtor the ability to update/add/modify property listings within a controlled environment.

Offering membership areas of websites where members can have a set of templated tools to "create" their own area on the web while still maintaining an overall consistent look of the site.

Since Alex mentioned GTMail - I am guessing entirely that this is where he is seeing the program being used - offer email services to website visitors and allow them to "personalize" their own area.

DreamWeaver allows specific areas to be "locked" - The same can occur here with locked areas the users cannot modify. The difference being - DreamWeaver must be used on the local drive only. With the web-based system Alex has in progress, the "program" is on the web and the user can access from any computer.

Sorry I make it a rule to not use the word FrontPage in the same context as the aforementioned website publishing tools. FrontPage is (IMO) not a viable option for anyone claiming to be a developer.












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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
In Reply To:
The editor needs to be able to handle the custom tags ie: <%tag%>
It does, it will show them in the wysiwyg view as <%tags%> and in the source as <%tags%>.

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
No, the point of this was never a replacement of a real editor like Frontpage or Dreamweaver. It's meant to integrate into existing products, and provide users the ability to create formatted html from their browser. Things like mailing html messages, editing templates, managing content, etc.

Of course, I would never use this as something to do a real site design from start to finish, that was never the goal.

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
In Reply To:
The fact there is no "working demo" of the product available online is neither here nor there with any of the discussion. LinksSQL does what Links does while using MySQL for data storage as oppossed to using flat files. There is a working demo of Links.
Hmm? The demo has always been available. See:

http://gossamer-threads.com/scripts/links-sql/demo/

and the admin:

http://gossamer-threads.com/...-sql/admin/admin.cgi

Or are you thinking about DBMan SQL?

Cheers,

Alex

--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
I was having problems with that (display of <%tags%>) which is why I put it up here.

I'll try it all again, and watch carefully if that is how it's supposed to work.

PUGDOGŪ
PUGDOGŪ Enterprises, Inc.
FAQ: http://postcards.com/FAQ


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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Thanks Alex - I stand corrected on having used someone else's verbage in my text. I wasn't questioning whether there was or wasn't a demo.
In Reply To:
The only reason that I posted the issue of prioritization is that many Links SQL users are frustrated that there is not a working demo of Links SQL and that the core of the program should be finished before add-ons are developed.
I was trying to point out that whether or not there is a demo of LinksSQL shouldn't have been part of feedback offered on the editor.


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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
>> Of course, I would never use this as something to do a real site design
>> from start to finish, that was never the goal.

If that is the goal, I would really like to see a source-code editor, that could handle the various tags, make sure they are matched, understand GT tags that need to be matched like <%if%> and <%endif%>, and format the code with proper indents.

As a valuable addition to that, the ability to mark a block of text to format, properly, would be awesome.

The reason is, that with template layout, there are big blocks of text often inside other blocks. You might know the internal block is "good", and want that properly formatted, so you can work the nesting backwards (outwards) to find the mismatched tags.

This is really important for some browsers... since NN and MSIE display things very, very differently. One will handle mis-matched table tags, the other won't. And, each handles a different set properly and not.

I'm still coding my templates in pure HTML (no CSS or funky other features) because of these oddities in the different browsers. Rather than floating tables, I use nested tables. The way NN and MSIE each see a "floating" table is sometimes shocking.

Because of the template nature of the site, the templates can often get complex, and nesting/closing tags becomes very difficult to do right the first time -- and very, very difficult to debug.

Anyway, if this is really for doing the email type templates, and response templates and such, this would be a really nice feature to have. It shouldn't be too hard, and no other program out there really offers it (some try, but burry deep inside other unneeded "features" and actions).

PUGDOGŪ
PUGDOGŪ Enterprises, Inc.
FAQ: http://postcards.com/FAQ


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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Microsoft has the same DHTML Editing Control
http://msdn.microsoft.com/...ditcntrl/default.asp

Is it possible to use this editor for forum software like UBB, W3T? Insert their own markups instead of HTML tags.


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Re: HTML Editor Comments In reply to
Actually...I do think it is important to have a working demo of Links SQL NEXT GENERATION! I know that there is a working version for v.1.11 (BTW: it should probably be updated to v.1.13. And any add-ons like this should be postponed or added on later after the core of the NEXT GENERATION script is completed, IMHO.


Regards,

Eliot Lee