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The kernel of pain!

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The kernel of pain!
It seems that Wil has been "selectively" picking articles from slashdot relating to Microsoft giving a somewhat subjective view.

Here is something to balance this a little:

2.4, The Kernel of PainPosted by jamie on Thursday January 17, @02:30AM
from the my-destiny-to-be dept.
Joshua Drake has written an article for LinuxWorld.com called The Kernel of Pain. He seems to think 2.4 is fine for desktop systems but is only now, after a year of release, approaching stability for high-end use. Slashdot has had its own issues with 2.4, so I know where he's coming from. What have your experiences been? Is it still too soon for 2.4?
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Re: [RedRum] The kernel of pain! In reply to
Then go back to 2.2! Linux is a system that will always be in development, and they will always post a beta release and a stable release. You can pick the one you want.

With Microsoft, they would of launched with the not-so-perfect one a year ago and let the users discover that it wasn't up to scratch themselves, instead of the developers admitting this - which is what accountability is all about. And hence, this goes back to my age old argument of - Linux; uses it's own core developers to find faults. Microsoft; uses it's customers (who have had to pay for the privilidge) of finding it's bugs.

And for the lurkers, I've posted the URL below so you can read up on the comments after this article. I've picked one out here, which absolutely proves my point:

> This guy is complaining that he had troubles on a production server with
> Mandrake8.1 and its kernel 2.4.
>
> But Mandrake 8.1 ships with both kernel 2.4 and 2.2.
> The idea behind it is: if you need all the fancy stuff use 2.4 but if you want
> stability use 2.2.

http://slashdot.org/...0242&mode=thread

- wil
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to
You keep changing your argument to suit the thread. First you say how much better and "bug free" linux is, then when proved wrong you say thats ok because its always in development and bla bla ...*cough* bull *cough*

I rest my case.

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RedRum: Jan 17, 2002, 4:38 AM
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to
By the way, notice the first line of the article...

>>Joshua Drake has written an article for LinuxWorld.com called The Kernel of Pain.<<

You may want to do some research about who Joshua Drake is.

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RedRum: Jan 17, 2002, 4:50 AM
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Re: [RedRum] The kernel of pain! In reply to
The bugs you will find on a Linuz box are annoying - but they aren't "Critical Security Updates" like those that appear on the Micorosft web site every three days.

I don't change my argument. My point was in this thread and the one before this was how Microsoft compared to the open-source community checks it's software for bugs.

Read it again.

- wil
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to

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Re: [RedRum] The kernel of pain! In reply to
You asked me to explain and justify my argument, which I did.

What's your problem?

- wil
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to
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The bugs you will find on a Linuz box are annoying
Here you go talking bullshit again. Do you recall anything about that HUGE logic bug in the 2.4 kernal being "annoying"? I don't. From what I remember, that major bug killed a network cold several times

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- but they aren't "Critical Security Updates" like those that appear on the Micorosft web site every three days.
That's bull as well. Very few of those "critical updates" are critical to your system. I haven't been to the Microsoft Product Updates page since at least Nov. 20. By your theory, I should have at least 12 to install. GUESS WHAT? There are 2 (one posted Nov. 20, the other Dec. 16), neither of which I'm installing as they effect programs I don't use. I'd like to see a screen shot from your browser every 3 days proving updates are posted that often.

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I don't change my argument. My point was in this thread and the one before this was how Microsoft compared to the open-source community checks it's software for bugs.
I don't expect you to. you are set in your ways and can't see the forrest for the trres. You bash MS every chance you get, but the minute a problem is found with Linux/Mac you come to their defense. Can you say "double standard"?

Question: What is contained the daily CVS's most open source companies provide? Bug fixes and general updates. Guess what? Mircosoft does the same type of thing, only they call these updates "critical" (when they usually aren't) and isn't done daily (or every 3 days as you claim).

--Philip
Links 2.0 moderator
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Re: [ThatPerson1024] The kernel of pain! In reply to
Sorry, Philip. You are right. I did exaggerate. The average number of security updates posted on their web site is between 3 - 4 per month. Thats' one a week not one every three days as I incorrectly stated in my previous post.

http://www.microsoft.com/...security/current.asp

If you haven't been to the MS website since November, and you're using IE (maybe?) you might want to read up on the following - that was posted December 13th 2001. Sounds preety serious to me.

MS01-058 : 13 December 2001 Cumulative Patch for IE

Rgds

- wil
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to
That first URL is the general hotfix URL. Here are the seperate bugfix URL's for each OS:

Win98
http://www.microsoft.com/...kid=0&submit1=go

Win2000
http://www.microsoft.com/...kid=0&submit1=go

WinXP
http://www.microsoft.com/...kid=0&submit1=go

Notice how many bugfixes there are for XP since 2001

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RedRum: Jan 18, 2002, 4:02 AM
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Re: [RedRum] The kernel of pain! In reply to
In Reply To:
WinXP
http://www.microsoft.com/...kid=0&submit1=go

Notice how many bugfixes there are for XP since 2001

Yeah. Another critical update. How many of Microsoft's XP customers know about this one? I certainly didn't and we have a copy of XP in the office. :-\.

Anyway, I'm tired or arguing. I accept your argument, although I disagree with your viewpoint.

Later.

- wil

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japh: Jan 18, 2002, 3:58 AM
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to
Thats good that you've made that decision.

I don't mind you having a different viewpoint, it's a free country.

Myself and Drew (and others) just wish to provide some defence against your claims.

I think it was evident quite a while ago that you disliked Microsoft so by frequently posting Microsoft related threads it is almost like trying to rub peoples noses in it which isn't polite.

We know you have issues with Microsoft so lets leave it at that and move on to more important things.

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RedRum: Jan 18, 2002, 4:11 AM
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Re: [RedRum] The kernel of pain! In reply to
Just for the record; I'm not rubbing anyone's noses in anything. I'm just trying to alert people to various issues that are evident with the operating system. Don't forget - I manage 17 PCs in the office running flavors of Windows. So if I find a security alert, I have to fix it, and then I forward an announcement or usually a grunt on these boards. But I'll stop this from now on. Obviously no one finds my news service useful ;-)

- wil
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Re: [japh] The kernel of pain! In reply to
XP downloads patches/bugfixes automatically in the background (not sure about Win2K).

I occasionally get a flashing icon to say XP is downloading something and when I double click the icon it tells me what updates are available and I can select which I want.

Hehe, my cable modem is cool too because I get a flashing alert on my desktop when my dad unplugs the tv downstairs lol
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Re: [RedRum] The kernel of pain! In reply to
In Reply To:
XP downloads patches/bugfixes automatically in the background (not sure about Win2K).

That's a very welcomed feature. I didn't know of this. That would save a lot of time on my end if I upgraded the OSs' in the office to do this. The IE developers kit is quite a nifty tool too.

- wil