Gossamer Forum
Home : General : Chit Chat :

Trouble Brewing

(Page 1 of 2)
> >
Quote Reply
Trouble Brewing
Not so much with Syria, but the rest...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/...olitics_030404120349
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Ummm..... Interesting. I thought this war was being fought to put end to "Regimes" cult.

It's one "Regime" replacing the other presumably.

Wink
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
As the US/British are the ones putting their lives on the line, why should the opposers have a say?
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
But don't you think that all the while the propaganda has been that Iraq will be Given Back to Iraqis (implying they will decide their reconstruction priorities) or is it that Iraq will be given back to Iraqis under a "New Regime" or that it would never be democratically given back to Iraqis?

Wink
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
The issue being discussed is not who will "take over" Iraq, but who will help rebuild it. They can't do it on their own, that's a fact.
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
So it means that Iraqi's will be the one's who will have a final say in deciding as to who all are going to participate in their reconstruction?

Supposing if Iraqi's want the Germans/French/Russians/Syrians to participate would there be a second war of liberation? "Liberation Of Thoughts" of Iraqis......Wonder why China is missing from that list... Even they opposed....India too.....

I am sure UK would not come out with a similar bill.....untill of course there is some secret deal to polarise the world into US and Non US factions officially.....
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
So it means that Iraqi's will be the one's who will have a final say in deciding as to who all are going to participate in their reconstruction?

Like I said, the Americans are the ones putting their ass on the line to liberate Iraq so of course they should have a say.

Have you been following the news recently?...a religious leader has been given loud speakers by the US forces to enable him to call prayer for the first time in 12 years. The airport has been secured for Iraqi future economy (as well as to help the coalition). An Iraqi citizen led US forces to the whereabouts of Jessica, the female US POW...I could go on.
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
But Paul, in case they were doing all this to "Free Themselves From The Dangers Of Saddam" or the "Looming Dangers" (as often stated the primary cause of war) then why come out with these type of issues.

These things basically highlight the real motive behind war...

Yep I have been following the same. There are different types of people in every society. What did Gorbachev Do To Russia? And What did he get in return? So that explains it all wrt ppl helping the troops to find pow's....

American Soldiers are also being fired at in Afghanistan from Pakistani side and fundamentalists. But no Pakistan is a squeezed lemon already so no interest in that region.

Wink
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
But Paul, in case they were doing all this to "Free Themselves From The Dangers Of Saddam" or the "Looming Dangers" (as often stated the primary cause of war) then why come out with these type of issues.

Im not sure what you mean.
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Saddam (for that matter "Most Of Dictators") are viewed as "Threat to US" more so after 9/11 .... so the concept "Axis Of Evil" So pretentiously this war took off with that excuse. That's what I meant.

Pretentious because of such things happening where countries go about openly settling scores with other countries and legitimise it through bills in parliaments/ senate. (Germany/France/Russia/Syria)...
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
So it means that Iraqi's will be the one's who will have a final say in deciding as to who all are going to participate in their reconstruction?

The bill that passed says that they won't allow american tax dollars allocated to help rebuild Iraq to be given to companies from France, Russia, Germany and Syria, which is totally fair, it is their money after all. It doesn't say who will ultimately be in charge with rebuilding Iraq (at least I didn't read it that way), only how American tax dollars used in rebuilding will be spent.

Cheers,

Alex
--
Gossamer Threads Inc.
Quote Reply
Re: [Alex] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Fine. But "sophisticated and mature democracies" should not start formulating such schemes / bills etc which in more than one ways highlight the fact that it is a matter of settling scores....It's ok in movies but not in world order.

Quote:
It doesn't say who will ultimately be in charge with rebuilding Iraq

With that bill passed the benefactor is already decided and all the others will be forced to believe that way subsequently with Karzai-II posted in Iraq ;-)


Anup
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Canada has also been blocked by the US in the rebuilding of Iraq. No surprise given the heightened hostilities between Canada and the US since little (isolationist) Bush Junior and his regime was elected - long before the Iraq was at issue. Canada has pledged an initial 100 million dollars towards Iraq. I don't know how many more hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars our Federal government will divert to Iraq, but I'm opposed. Nada. Zilch. None. I'm not in favour of writing a blank cheque or sending goods for the Americans to administer at their sole discretion, either directly or indirectly. We may put it in the hands of the UN, but it is the US that will have full administrative control of Iraq for some years to come - and it is unlikely the US will allow the "irrelevant " UN to decide how its resources will be distributed in Iraq (the new 51st American state). I'd rather redirect all of that money to those thousands of Canadian workers and companies that were thrown out of work or into bankruptcy by the international illegal trade war actions and sanctions (potatoes, wheat, steel, lumber, etc.) by the evil-doing Bush regime. The Americans lost a few lives in Bible-Thumping-Substance-Abusing-George's crusade against the evil-doer Saddam and the evil empire. War is hell, eh. Like the tens of thousands of casualities and deaths of Canadians during WWI and WWII when the Americans sat out much of each war at home playing charades, having barbecues and swilling beer while the brave (Canadians, British, etc.) fought to save Europe from a "true" clear and present danger - and other wars after those including Korean War, Vietnam War and the "War on Terrorism". Our debt is paid. The Americans and British should have to finance the rebuilding of Iraq on their own. Your war, your rebuilding, your money. Maybe you'll include some of the locals in the process. Do I hear Bagdad (Saddam) International Airport being renamed as George Bush International Airport?

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
that it is a matter of settling scores

If your wife cheated on you with another man, would you go and buy her a box of chocolates?

If the answer is no, then that's probably why the US don't want any of their money going to any of the fore-mentioned countries.
Quote Reply
Re: [dan] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Do I sense some hostility or bitterness =)

Quote:
Do I hear Bagdad (Saddam) International Airport being renamed as George Bush International Airport?

Nope, I hear it being renamed "Baghdad International Airport" - probably best not to read the news from anti-america.org Wink

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 4, 2003, 2:34 PM
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
If your wife cheated on you with another man, would you go and buy her a box of chocolates?

If i am sensible i would do some introspection to see why i was cheated by wife. I am sure I would never let a situation develop where i could be cheated. (Democratic Way)

If i were from the insensible "Chauv.... P" class I would look for another lady. (Dictatorial Way)

If I could do neither, I would use all my force to prevent her from cheating me yet again with men from two houses to the left and two houses to the right but let others have the share. (US Way)

Smile
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
But maybe the reason for her cheating is not to do with anything you've done and she was just a foolish sinner :)
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Nope I was only kidding Wink I know the Americans renamed the airport as Baghdad IA. My point was that... well, it's obvious. Bitter, no. Angry, yes. I'm not going to go into my anger at the US government regarding this Bush family vendetta. I could go on and on about that. I have neither the time or inclination to open that flood gate. But I am pissed at America - and it's a growing sentiment in Canada (as well as the rest the World). They have been pushing this BS about us being so-called friends, and their "disappointment" that we did not get involved in this crusade. Friends we ain't. We merely (sort of) co-exist on the same continent. So the US can expect this (from Canada and other leading nations) in the rebuilding of Iraq, and in the US's wars in the coming years (Syria, Iran, North Korea, etc.). As an aside, I'm not angry with all Americans (and I do have close friends in the US, including a good friend that moved to California some years ago - my mom was even born in the US). Just their political / military machine, and those that support it. When I paint, I paint in small strokes. Anyways, enough said. I have to psych up for the Vancouver Canucks soon-to-be Stanley Cup championship win (in May or June) Smile

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln
Quote Reply
Re: [dan] Trouble Brewing In reply to
As a country I've always preferred Canada to the US, don't really know why though =(

I've not really heard the US complain about Canada in the last few months though.
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
"May Be" type of postulates can never be the ground of any crucial decisions unless the real motive has to be wilfully cloaked by "May Be"

That's when suspicious brows are raised and the "So Called Anti America Feeling" starts sounding more legitimate. A country is hated not by the inhabitants but on the policies of that country and Bush family definitely seems to be genetically closer to a dictatorial type of descendency rather than a democratic one.

.....

Last edited by:

anup123: Apr 4, 2003, 3:11 PM
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
"May Be" type of postulates can never be the ground of any crucial decisions unless the real motive has to be wilfully cloaked by "May Be"

We were talking about a metaphorical, hypothetical, romantic scenario, sorry for not being more astute with my choice of words Wink

Quote:
That's when suspicious brows are raised and the "So Called Anti America Feeling" starts sounding more legitimate.

People become anti american because I said "maybe"? Wink
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
They have been complaining. US diplomat to Canada openly criticised Canada. Similarily, numerous letters to the editor in numerous Canadian newspapers from Americans - some have called us "cowards." Members of the Bush administration have openly and harshly criticised Canada. Little boycotts here and there - albeit not organized as they are against France. Anecdotally, one well known local guy was denied purchase (believe or not, Florida state ballot box used in last US presidential election) on an Ebay auction by the seller - but Ebay did take the buyer's side (but what many now get around this of not selling to countries that do not support the US war in Iraq by not accepting orders from outside the US). I'm sure we will be (even more) screwed in trade agreements between our two governments for sometime - at least until a US Democratic President and Senate is elected. This is only the tip of the iceberg as relations between Canada and the US sour.

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
People become anti american because I said "maybe"?

No. They become anti-america when they find this "Pseudo Dictatorial" type of an attitude dominating the international policies of that nation....Pseudo Dictatorial as "International Dictatorship" is practised under cover of "Civilised Democracy".

Quote:
We were talking about a metaphorical, hypothetical, romantic scenario,

Yep. Even I responded in that context though in some detail.

Smile
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Trouble Brewing In reply to
Quote:
If your wife cheated on you with another man, would you go and buy her a box of chocolates?

Does it mean that US+UK would want to have a "Sharable Harem" of "Abiding Nations" where the timing and selection for ecstacy is solely decided by the apparently more masculine spoilt Brat. Those who do show some independence of thought are forcefully thrown out. I wonder what these Human Rights Organisations would have to say?

And Yes .... US needs this "Another Man" type of a scenario to emerge and if these "Dirty Harry" attitude continues it will spring up soon.

Smile
Quote Reply
Re: [anup123] Trouble Brewing In reply to
You've lost me =)
> >