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Racism
There's something to talk about. Lately I've read a couple recent, non-fiction books and one caught my attention. "My Country vs. Me" by Wen Ho Lee. If you're American and into the news, I'm sure you've heard of Dr. Wen Ho Lee from maybe 2-4 years ago.

Although the book was written in his perspective, it gave the reader both perspectives.. 1) his perspective 2) the government/fbi's perspective. What you can conclude from this is that Dr. Lee was targetted because of his ethnicity. If you don't know who he is, he was the Nuclear Physicist that underwent 2 years of cruel and unusual punishment from the U.S. government. They claimed that he gave classified secrets to China. He was treated as a criminal and put into prison before his trial. Later, he agreed to a plea bargain to plead guilty to 1 count rather than 59 counts (39 of which had life sentences).

So yes.. I just wanted to know your opinion. Racism has existed forever and it may be different than back in the day, but I want to know your reasons on why you think people are targetted. According to history, white/caucasian people believed black/african people were inferior. Same thing happened with asians. What is it now and why can't everyone be equal?

[edit]caught a typo

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jsu

Last edited by:

Seto Kaiba: Jul 30, 2002, 1:40 PM
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Re: [Seto Kaiba] Racism In reply to
Racisim has been around since the beginning of time. One group thinking they are better than another group based on skin color, language, beliefs, age, etc.

Racism is nothing more than an extension of elitism. One person, group or other thinking they are better than another person, group or other.

To truly understand racism one would have to understand elitism.

Most are based on preconceived notions or even falsehoods perpatraited by those who did not agree with the others opinions or beliefs. And then there is the continuation or commercialization of racism. There are many organizations that make money off of situations that are believed to be biased. And it is to their profit that the racism continue or even enlarge in depth of misuse.

The bottom line, believe none of what you hear, a forth of what you read and a half of what you see. Racism is a business!
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
Ok. It is pretty general, but maybe if you can say you believe is factual. I was in History class one time and we had a discussion on a few topics that got my attention.

1) More money = smarter.

I didn't know what to say to that topic at first. I figured, there could be a person that has nothing and study hard. In class, we went over the many reasons why it could be true though. It does appear to be true to me now. How it relates to racism is because of all the affirmative action issues. The rich are the ones that can afford better education and have less worries. While the poor are drown out by financial problems, stress, and are forced to take what they can get. It might be an obvious topic, but if you stick it in with race it makes it a thousand times more complex.

2) Asians = smarter.

This topic was just too strange. I live in California, near San Francisco, where there are a lot of Chinese, Koreans and other Asians. Our school is almost 60% asian (including Indians) and barely 40% Caucasian. Practically 98% graduate and go to college. Our history teacher however, brought up this topic in class. He is caucasian and half the class is caucasian. I thought it would turn into some kind of battle or something. However, the asians were the ones to disagree while the Caucasians agreed.

Why? Well, the asians say everyone is just as smart as each other. While caucasians say that the way asians were brought up make them try harder. Through test results, it is apparant that asians score higher in math and caucasians score higher in verbal/writing. However, combined, asians score higher. Does it really mean they are smarter? I really want your opinions on this.

As a child, from Elementary school through Junior High (Grade 8), I got all A's except one C in 4th grade. I was born in America, but my parents are from Taiwan. I never knew how strict they could get about school while I was in elementary school. I just did well, because it was easy. That first C I got, I was practically murdered that night after receiving the report card. My first experience of wraith because of grades. I didn't know if it was just my own parents or if other people went through it so I kept quiet. I now, from the debate in History found out almost all the asian children went through that. Not as many caucasian children had a case similar. I guess it does have to do something with race?

What I want to know is if you'd agree that asian parents are stricter than other parents and therefore, raise smarter children. Maybe it's not true and it's just an opinion? What do you think? Thanks, it'd really open my mind up about the topic.

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jsu
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Re: [Seto Kaiba] Racism In reply to
So I agree that one races parents being stricter than others raises smarter kids?

No way! But, Asians are known to do well school wise due to year round schooling. (in Asia)

As per a US Asian being smarter than a US Latino, or US Black, Or US Irishman, etc...no. THis is more based upon the child than the parents. Each child has an area of excellence. Some it is books, some it is sports, some it is the arts, etc... So a claim of race equalling smarter has no merit.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
I don't know about China, but in Taiwan.. they have summers off.

However, the competition in Taiwan is tough and rather than spending their summers having fun, they take more classes to enhance their abilities. So it may seem like year-round schooling, but it's just their decisions to be schooled.

But I'm trying to say.. what is their motivation? To succeed in life? If that is the case and no parents are involved.. then the that's like saying humans are not lazy or stubborn. I still believe it is because of strict parents. It's not like they don't love their parents, they're parents just want them to do so well in school that it is not acceptable to their parents and the student to get bad grades. But.. with that perspective, it is still the parents' force behind the student.

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jsu
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Re: [Seto Kaiba] Racism In reply to
Parents know the childs limits and a parent can be dissappointed if their child falls short of their abilities.

Nationality is not the issue. It would be parents expanding limits or assisting the child in working at thier personal limits. The strictness of a parent can work against them if they are too strict. But it also cuts the other way as well.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
I agree pretty much with Teambldr here.

I grew up among Native American Indians, then later went to a school that was 40% Mexican 40% Philipino. My uni in California was mostly white, the first and only time in my life I lived as a majority. But, now, live as a minority and will be treated only as a "guest that needs to be dealt with" attitude. This bit was to clear up / prevent any misconceptions.

I think that racism and discrimination will be around as long as one group feels it should be better than one group, on top of this, especially for the US, as long as one group wants to keep the past alive.

I've dealt with many kinds that labled me as majority without knowing my past.

I live where education and money can help a student attain a secure future. Although, the study ethic is mostly a myth that is still propogated, I do still see money helps eventhough the system was created to help if a student were poor. Alas, no matter they would still be stuck due to their financial circumstances.

I've heard and learned that Korea has a strong strong emphasis on education, possibly too strong for some students. My Taiwanese friends mentioned similar too. My Cantonese friends used education as a financial stepping stone too. My Polish and German friends were a bit different, their parents wanted them to have a strong "work ethic". Not just for education but also in everyday life. So their parents looked at things in a more general sense it seemed.

I remember chinese students with 4.X grades getting turned down from Berkely. This was a major issue at the time when I was in at Uni. Many cried foul. I thought so too. But, Berkely and most UC schools at the time were targetting students with a balanced life; academics - sports - activities. The Students who got rejected only had academics, no sports and no activities.

Why the white man? Why is he (grammar usage her) financial strong or educational smart (images of course, reality is another story)?

hmmm ... I wonder. But let's take a peak into Chinese history. I've learned and read, that at one time even in China social class and discrimination was based on color. The Euro-Caucasian came much later into this. Pre-psudo-communism had that paler (whiter) looking Chinese at the top of the social ladder. A simple thing to understand. The darker skinned folks were the ones to work the fields and those who never got sun taned by working were the ruling class. Even in the US, these hard working souls have been given names like "Red Necks" and "Wet Backs". Then when the Euro-Caucasion showed up in China with white looking skin and green eyes, they got pushed up the social ladder automatically it seems.

The Japanes just thought these foreignors were hairy barbarians. lolo ... pre-modern cultures are interesting.

I think this is a difficult topic, and it's probably brought up in class to raise awareness and hopefully bring understanding that racism and discrimination is just a bunch of B.S. (hopefully, not a personal agenda) that should be trashed.

I took an American Asian literature class in uni. where I thought the teacher that was Chinese/Malaysian who I thought had a hidden agenda since she would always put aside my comments or write me off. I in turn wrote better and wrote against her any chance I had. I would play the devil because she kept saying that I couldn't understand since I was white. I recieved a 4.0 for her class and she even thanked me for coming and joining. After thinking this over, it was I who misjudged wrongly and it was she who played the Devils Advocate to raise hairs in class. Even today, I remember her and thank her for trying her hardest to deal with some of these issues.


To close off this long post,
I hate racism and discrimination.
It just sucks.
I try my best not to do/feel either. (I'm not perfect, but still I try.)

So, let's put color aside and look at people for who they are.

Angelic

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] Racism In reply to
Well said QooQ!
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Re: [QooQ] Racism In reply to
In Reply To:
Then when the Euro-Caucasion showed up in China with white looking skin and green eyes, they got pushed up the social ladder automatically it seems.


Isn't that all imperialism? Didn't Europeans pretty much force their way into controlling the asian governments?

I'm sure there were maybe some asians that saw the Europeans are more industrialized individuals and liked them, but the Europeanis weren't pushed up the social latter automatically. What the British did to obtain Hong Kong is a good example, I guess. By creating a drug problem in China, they forced China to give up Hong Kong to the British.

Also, I'm trying to show my concern for present-day racism. It exists everywhere. I don't think anyone can look at someone of another race and consider them completely equal. The United States was born for everyone to be equal and free. But, the government is still controlled by a very high percent of caucasians. What happened with Wen Ho Lee sets me to believe a portion of our government judged Wen Ho Lee by his race and therefore show signs of racism in our own government. Do you agree?

I mean.. if you have a chinese guy (from Taiwan) and a maybe german-descent natural born american and suddenly the government has a feeling China obtained classified documents. Who would you blame? The US government blames the chinese guy with practically no evidence. Not like a caucasian guy can't sell documents to another country.

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jsu
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Re: [Seto Kaiba] Racism In reply to
What you are saying in and of itself can and does increase racism and elitism.

Just by saying words that can point the finger at another person of another race, religion, etc.. makes people have a question maek about the race, religion, etc...

As I stated before, it is not about race it is about power over anything else for whatever reason.

Was Hitler racist? Or was he just a nut case? What about reverse racism? What about self perpetuated racism? What about a race being racist on itself? These things happen everyday and until a person can accept another as flesh and blood they themselves are racist.

We ourselves bring this on with things such as Black History month. While the information represented is valuable the information is presented as black history rather than history which causes people to seperate races.

We have been taught by TV that a black and a white do not date or marry even though it is common place. Why do I say this? When was the last time you saw a happy interacial couple represented as a wholesome family in a commercial or even a TV series?

Even though we all know in our hearts that people are people we are trained to overlook our hearts and deal with it in our subconscious mind.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
I agree with your last post.. but here's another perspective.

Racism can be induced by fear.

Thoughts?

Well, I do agree in a way. I forget the details, but around the 1900s, the Japanese were immigrating into the US. They mostly came to the west coast. They were denied education in San Francisco (best education back then I think). As a result, the Japanese government agreed to stop allowing immigration into the US if the US government would agree to allow the immigrants to go to school in the US. Before that, Chinese weren't allowed to immigrate into the US. It wasn't until after years after that they were allowed to immigrate. I think the reasons were not just because they were asian. I think it had to do with them being more intelligent. They allowed Latin american immigration during this time, but not as much as European immigration.

There were already asians in America, but they didn't allow more to come in. It appears to be fear of intelligence.

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jsu
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Re: [Seto Kaiba] Racism In reply to
And fear that causes racism is caused by ignorance which is caused by elitists keeping the ignorant that way.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
Something I was thinking about the other day before I even saw this thread....I don't find black/asian/chinese etc people attractive or people with dark skin....does that make me racist?...I came to the conclusion that it didn't

Obviously I don't look at everyone with dark skin and think "ew you are ugly" ...but I don't think I've seen any yet that I personally find attractive.
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Re: [Paul] Racism In reply to
THat is getting into a completely new area that is nothing to do with racism. It is about paradygms that you establish throughout your life as to what you find to be soothing, exciting, stimulating, and more on the most basic level in your mind. Virtually on the same path as your tastebuds. Some people like sour, some sweet, some bitter, etc...

A person is not a racist if they do not find Asian women pretty, or Latin men handsome. A person is racist if they think they are inferior or superior to another race.

For example, I do not care for blonde hair on women I date. I also do not care for a woman without a shape. Does that make me racist? No, it is just a personal taste.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
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A person is not a racist if they do not find Asian women pretty, or Latin men handsome.
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No, but it could be taken that way.

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For example, I do not care for blonde hair on women I date. I also do not care for a woman without a shape. Does that make me racist? No, it is just a personal taste.
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No it doesn't make you racist because blonde hair and good shapes isn't to do with race :)
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Re: [Paul] Racism In reply to
Only if you think you are better than them because of it. If you think you are equal to them but just do not find them attractive you are not racist. Because you are equal.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
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Only if you think you are better than them because of it. If you think you are equal to them but just do not find them attractive you are not racist. Because you are equal.
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We know that, but maybe less educated people wouldn't and would just assume it was racism especially if I was known to be white and the person I was commenting on was known to be black.
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Re: [Paul] Racism In reply to
Now you have come back to ignorance.

Ignorance is a disease brought forward by and furthered by elitists in society.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
There was a study done half a century again that helped overrule Plessy vs Fergussen in the US Supreme Court. The study was doen on mostly black school children and some white school children. They were shown several dolls and asked several questions. Something like:

1) Which one do you like?
2) Which one is pretty?
3) Which one is ugly?
4) Which one is a boy?
5) Which one is a girl?

For all the questions except for #3, they chose white dolls. With that data in mind, the supreme court ruled that segregation of public facilities was unconstitutional. I think the children's minds were set to like white dolls because white people had better lives then. It can still be the same case. Maybe black people are more attracted to white people than white people being attracted to black people?

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jsu
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Re: [Seto Kaiba] Racism In reply to
Or maybe even something more simple such as only white dolls being available at that time.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
I remember once I pushed the bathroom door over my sisters foot and ripped off her toe nail...she had to go to the doctors and cried when she saw that the doctor was black...that was the first black person she'd ever seen (she was about 10 and it was about 14 years ago). So that's just more to do with the lack of mixture of cultures in society rather than ignorance or racism...
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Re: [Paul] Racism In reply to
Lack of exposure and knowledge is ignorance.

Did she also get scared when she saw a big lion? Most likely not as there are lots of books on ficticious lions that are read at an early age. Hence no ignorance to lions. Maybe misconception about their ability to shred skin and eat your meat as opposed to the fearless lion that saves all of its kingdom as a little cub.
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
Is racism different than prejudice?
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Re: [Watts] Racism In reply to
Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice
Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL
Date: 13th century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
synonym see PREDILECTION

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
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Re: [Teambldr] Racism In reply to
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Lack of exposure and knowledge is ignorance.
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Lack of exposure doesn't equal ignorance. Well depending on your interpretation of ignorance.

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Did she also get scared when she saw a big lion? Most likely not
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Hah do you know any kids that wouldn't get scared of a big lion ;) ..I don't.
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