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Disorganization

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Disorganization
I am absolutely positive that Gossamer has developed some great products that are highly customizable and provide solutions for a variety of needs.

However...

I am disheartened by the lack of organization in the Links 2.0 forum. I see veterans constantly using the phrase "Try searching the forums more thoroughly". Well, searching returns so many threads that it is very difficult to find the right answer. Another reason, I believe, people are posting duplicate questions is due to the overwhelming amount of wrong answers given. While it is great to have such an active community supporting these great products, I believe the current and future community members would benefit greatly if the forum was reorganized.

I am not familiar with the guts of Gossamer Threads, so I don't know if the disorganization is due to the software or a lack of moderator control. I do know that a forum is the least expensive form of technical support outside of a well written Readme document. So I guess the solution I think would serve this community best would be to organize sub-categories under the Customization thread. As it is now, you click Customization and the very next page is 1 of 426. I know Threads has a very decent search engine, I have used it extensively, but finding the CORRECT answer still isn't easy.

Well...that's all I have for today.

Wes



P.S. This was written after I spent 14 hours modifying my copy of Links 2.0 which I purchased about a year ago. I was able to find the correct answer to all my questions and I found them right here in this forum. It wasn't easy. It should be.
Quote Reply
Re: [wesmarvel] Disorganization In reply to
The reason us 'veterans' always tell you to search, is cos most of the time, as you just proved, the answers are already there! We just get a bit fed up with people asking the same question, that was discussed literally a few hours ago! I can see how annoying it may be for you...but don't forget we do this on a 'volunteer' basis...you would be waiting far longer if you had to get help from a member of staff Wink Especially if it is just for the un-purchased version of the scripts.

Also, there is a FAQ page for installation and commonly asked questions. If people were to use these a little more, then we wouldn't get so 'moody', and keep telling people to look at the FAQ's or search the forums Tongue

Just my opinion..I think you will find that a lot of moderators/veterans etc feel the same ;)

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
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Re: [wesmarvel] Disorganization In reply to
I think one solution to this problem would be to introduce a 'sticky' thread at the top of each forum outlining the forum rules, etiquette and commonly asked questions. This periodic, and constantly updated (by forum moderators) posting could also contain links to well-answered frequently asked questions within the given forum and may also include tips and guidelines on how to perform a better search.

Do you think this would help newcomers understand the forums and maybe get access to some well-answered FAQs within the forum? I personally think it would.

Hope this helps.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Disorganization In reply to
Quite frankly Wil that idea is just not realistic. I fancied the idea (creating a better FAQ center) several times and discussed it openly in the forum, but there are just too many threads to go through to do a decent job.

Having rules and etiquette posted all over the place is benficial, but users need to learn from the very start to not depend on anyone to answer their question and simply take advantage of the 4+ years of threads already at their fingertips.

--Philip
Links 2.0 moderator
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Re: [wesmarvel] Disorganization In reply to
Hi,

I think what was mentioned (and never put into practice) and while ago was that whenever a thread with a useful answer was encountered it should be added by the user (or veteran/moderator/replier) to the resources section so it could be easily found on another occassion.

It seems that this never happened though, however anyone is free to add to the resources so if you find something you think will help others, feel free to add it.

I can appreciate how you feel being told to search the forum...perhaps in that type of situation the person telling you to search should locate a relevant thread themselves and post it in the resources section although as Andy mentioned everyone who helps is a volunteer and are under no obligation to be "extra" helpful...you have to rely on their good nature. I agree that when you hear the same response over and over it can get frustrating (and more so when in the time it takes to tell you to search the person could have typed a quick answer).

You may want to contact GT directly to see how they feel about altering the Links2/DBMAN forums. I see that neither of them were altered after the recent forum changes so it seems GT are focusing on the SQL products however if you feel strongly about this (I know others do) then direct contact may help.....and more so because staff members rarely come to the chit-chat forum.

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 18, 2002, 6:24 AM
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Re: [wesmarvel] Disorganization In reply to
There are several things to consider here:

a) the Links 2.0 forums are the oldest forums (next to DBMAN). you question may have been answered 4 years ago and might be on the last page of your search results
b) quite a few users ARE just too plain damn lazy and post without an honest attempt to search on their own.
c) reorganizing a forum and sorting out threads into categories, dumping redundant threads, etc., would take more time than it's worth. I don't get compensated in any form to hange around the Links forums as a moderator when I'm off from work, so spending my time doing that is simply out of the question.

--Philip
Links 2.0 moderator
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Re: [sponge] Disorganization In reply to
>>so spending my time doing that is simply out of the question. <<

Unless we got paid :)
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Re: [Paul] Disorganization In reply to
In Reply To:
It seems that this never happened though, however anyone is free to add to the resources so if you find something you think will help others, feel free to add it.




I will do just that. I remember where I found my answers and I will be happy to spread the wealth.

This is just my second post. I never asked any questions in the forum because almost every thread I viewed had the remark about how this has been answered a million times and people should just search search search. So I did just that.

I appreciate those folks that do spend their time helping those of us that are less perl literate. I spent allot of time in the forum over the last 24 hours and I now know more than I did.

I hope nobody took my statements as an attack against the moderators/vets. It was my intention to offer constructive criticism in hopes of maybe changing the tone of some of the more aggravated folks who do spend time answering the same question all the time.

sponge :

a) the Links 2.0 forums are the oldest forums (next to DBMAN). you question may have been answered 4 years ago and might be on the last page of your search results

Didn't know it was that old...


b) quite a few users ARE just too plain damn lazy and post without an honest attempt to search on their own.

Understandable...


c) reorganizing a forum and sorting out threads into categories, dumping redundant threads, etc., would take more time than it's worth. I don't get compensated in any form to hange around the Links forums as a moderator when I'm off from work, so spending my time doing that is simply out of the question.


From Jan, 2000 to April, 2002 you have posted over 1700 times. WOW!! Stop posting and start sorting...?? Wink



Wes

Last edited by:

wesmarvel: Apr 18, 2002, 7:08 AM
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Re: [wesmarvel] Disorganization In reply to
Yeah, but a sticky thread at the top of each forum with a simple 'Welcome to this forum' message outlining the forum and giving links to the resource section would go a long way IMO.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Disorganization In reply to
Yeah Im surprised there is no sticky feature in GForum yet...is it in 1.1.4 or did I just imagine that?

Edit: Oops it can't be as this forum is now already using 1.1.4 Unsure

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 18, 2002, 7:07 AM
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Re: [Wil] Disorganization In reply to
In Reply To:
Yeah, but a sticky thread at the top of each forum with a simple 'Welcome to this forum' message outlining the forum and giving links to the resource section would go a long way IMO.


I agree.



Wes
Quote Reply
Re: [wesmarvel] Disorganization In reply to
And I ALWAYS provide keywords to search for when I say "Search the forums more thoroughly"!!

And I agree with Philip, MANY newbies and other recent users of Links 2.0 are just plain lazy, can be ungrateful when others post answers to their questions, and ask repetitive questions within a day or two frequency. Basically it's like this:

THREAD #1:

Newbie: "Hi. How do you add new fields?"

Replier: "LONG EXPLANATION FOR ADDING FIELDS"

THREAD #2 (two days later):

Newbie2: "Hi. How do you add new fields?"

Replier: "Search the forum for add new fields."

THREAD #3:

Newbie1: "How to edit the category layout?"

Replier: "Edit the HTML codes in the sub site_html_print_cat routine in the site_html_templates.pl file."

THREAD #4 (two days later):

Newbie#2: "I want to make my categories align to the right. How do I do that?"

Replier: "Search the forum. It was posted two days ago."


Notice the following:

1) Repetitive questions.
2) No thanks or gratitude from newbie users.
3) No time taken to check recent threads even in the forum homepage.
========================================
Buh Bye!

Cheers,
Me
Quote Reply
Re: [Paul] Disorganization In reply to
Maybe if they install the poll plug-in we can start voting for features we'd like to see. Cool

I understand the need/desire to establish a product's own identity and individuality. . . but some features are common across the genre because their value has been shown through experience.

A sticky post would be nice, even more so if we could tweak the sticky post a bit to make it stand out from regular posts. I'd also vote for a memo field configurable by category or forum that could be positioned apart (above) from the standard topic/message display.

Maybe one of you coding geniuses could gen one of those options up as a plug in and become a GForums hero.

Last edited by:

HeavyBombers: Apr 18, 2002, 4:25 PM
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Re: [HeavyBombers] Disorganization In reply to
>>
Maybe if they install the poll plug-in we can start voting for features we'd like to see.
<<

Hehe cool.

>>
Maybe one of you coding geniuses could gen one of those options up as a plug in and become a GForums hero.
<<

Im thinking perhaps sticky posts at least should be a built in feature rather than a plugin....sticky posts could be tricky. I think it would involve ordering changes etc.

Last edited by:

Paul: Apr 19, 2002, 1:26 AM
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Re: [Paul] Disorganization In reply to
Yeah, this should really be a core feature, and I strongly believe it's on the to-do list anyway. :-)

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Disorganization In reply to
It would be good for GT to post the "to-do" list to stop people posting the same suggestions for fear of not being heard.

Even if it was just a text file.
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Re: [Paul] Disorganization In reply to
Definitily. I've requested this before; I can understand why they aren't posting it publicily though. I suppose GF's competitiors could get their hands on it quite easily.

- wil
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Re: Disorganization In reply to
stickies ... been there done that ... way back at 1.0.0 I believe when I mentioned it.

newbies ....

they use scripts off the net, ie, matt wright then you come across as something as complex as links and whamoo ... what the hell is going on.

they turn to the forums for help and somebody "sarcastically" replies ... and somebody gets irratated.

Newbies, don't know that Veterans help on their own time for free.

Not everybody can program and not everybody has the time to learn.

Veterans ....

Help for free.
Some are kind and friendly some are "tired and burned out".
Some Veterans forget what a newbie experiences.
Many Veterans are over loaded since new Veterans aren't coming out of the woodwork.

........

To be fair both sides go through many growing experiences. And many things need be considered on both ends. This is a very dynamic situation and I still feel something should/could be done to help all of those who are involved.


hmmmm.....

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
Quote Reply
Re: [QooQ] Disorganization In reply to
I've often thought that searching would be easier if it just displayed the main thread where the search term is located rather than also displaying each post as RE: ....

It would make searching much easier as you could display more threads when reading each related search result.

Like a more condensed output or perhaps the choice of showing as expanded or not.

Hope that made sense :)

Unoffical DBMan FAQ

http://creativecomputingweb.com/dbman/index.shtml/
Quote Reply
Re: [LoisC] Disorganization In reply to
That does make sense indeed! I think this should be an option, though. As many search results are for specific posts, but if you're trying to find an entire thread about a bug fix or something then yeah it could be useful. Hmm...

- wil
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Re: [QooQ] Disorganization --- paranoia In reply to
now this is the type of thing I was referring to.

Frown

... poor soul ...

And I have seen many such Frown

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile