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Saddam captured!
No need to say any more.
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Re: [Coombes] Saddam captured! In reply to
A terrific holiday treat! I wonder how long it will be before they can put the old bastard & the rest of his cronies on trial?

The Nuremburg trials started in October 1945, some 6 months after VE day. The Tokyo War Crimes Trials started May 1946, some 10 months after VJ day.
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
Unfortunately it 'absolutely' assures George Bush 100% certain re-election victory on November 2nd, 2004. There's no stopping Bush from ordering the US to invade a whole sleugh of other countries including but not limited to Syria (WMD-equipped), Iran, and 'possibly' North Korea (WMD-equipped, and a country that Iraq greatly pales in comparison), beginning in 2005 - which might explain, in part, the US plans to revitalize their draft boards (largely forsaken after the Vietnam War). Bush (but not the US as a whole) has nothing to lose, and everything to gain. And not to mention, five more years of an intense and historically punishing economic war by the protectionist US against its largest trading parner and so-called ally, Canada - especially as Bush pushes the US deficit and debt to new historical levels as he rebuilds the US military and NASA. So I have mixed feelings. It may have been in Canada's (and quite likely the World's, but time will tell) best interest that Saddam was not caught. At any rate, it will be an interesting and 'illuminating' trial - followed by a quick bullet to the head behind the courthouse. That too will drive up Bush's popularity rating even further.

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln
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Re: [dan] Saddam captured! In reply to
First there are no guarantees in politics, particular presidential politics. 24 hours is a lifetime in the political cycle and there is nearly a year left with the campaigns not even into full swing. The opposition party has yet to even pick their nominee.

Granted - success in Iraq and with 2004 predicted to be the strongest US economy in 20 years bodes well for the incumbent, but that's all it does.

Secondly an American president does not operate in a vacuum and invade countries on a whim of his own personal desires. In fact that sounds a little paranoid to me. Look at what's going on with those states you list. Multilateral talks are going pretty well with the North Koreans and the Chinese are playing ball. Iran is set to agree on aggressive nuclear inspections this coming week after caving to international pressures. Syria is wanting to talk and 'clear the air' after sanctions are being leveled against them.

Thirdly, "Draft Boards" aka the Selective Service Program has been in existence for 63 years. 18 year old men deal with it every year. The current review and reorganization is being driven by post-Cold War force numbers and of course by 9-11. The Draft is a dead political issue. It has been broadly rejected by all political quarters, and is championed by only a minor handful of personalities who have no power to effect it.

The trade conflict, I don't have much of an opinion on. But that's what the WTO is for ironing out.

Finally, that last bit is precious...Bush is more an enemy than the Hitlers and Saddams of the world. It really makes that type of thinking easy to dismiss.

Last edited by:

ArmyAirForces: Dec 14, 2003, 9:00 AM
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Re: [dan] Saddam captured! In reply to
Sigh, not again Frown
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
I agree, no guarantees. It was an 'mild' overstatement on my part. However, Bush is still virtually assured re-election despite a historic US deficit/debt (which shows no signs of abatement) - with a number of prominent American economists concerned that job gains are still falling substantially short and out of pace with the recent US economic uptick. Universally, the electorate tends to be myoptic. Another catastrophic terrorist attack on US soil (virtual certainty that it will happen sometime in the not so distant future), and this will catapult Bush even further. And Bush does operate in a vacuum (which sets him aside from recent US presidents), as already proven to the World at large when he launched his illegal and personal war against Iraq for the expressed purpose to unseat Saddam (which his father could not or would not do). No WMD's or evidence that Iraq aggessively supported terrorism (very bad blood between Saddam and al Qaeda and other Arab terrorist organizations), hmmm. Paranoid, hmmm. Then the World is filled to the brim with us, and we fall within the full political spectrum. CBC, BBC, MSNBC and CNN have discussed and continue to discuss these very issues, along these lines. The Washington Post must be staffed by paranoid writers and editors as they have asked many of the same questions. Further, Syria is still not really cooperating, and will never part with their WMD's (chemical and possible biological weapons that Iraq lacked in recent years, but Syria currently has), or significantly tone down their stance against Israel - they are still at war with a hostile nuclear power. Talks with North Korea (DPRK) are not going all that well, according to a number of international affairs experts I've been listening to in the mainstream media. DPRK will never give up the bomb. Kim has too much to win in keeping the bomb, and potentially so much to lose if he gives it up - they are still at war with a hostile nuclear power. Recent activity at one of DPRK's facilities has South Korea and Japan a bit concerned. And Iran nuclear inspections are not as thorough as the World had wanted - although Irani nuclear weapons capability would serve as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) stance against the Middle East's only nuclear power and antagonist to the Arab World, Israel. However, only considering Canada, Saddam was never a significant clear and present danger to Canada. Bush is. The threat of the Bush Administration to Canada is recognized by virtually all of Canada (including even our new Prime Minister, Paul Martin). The US tends to not honour international agreements when they do not favour the US even when the US acted improperly (an example, being the illegal softwood countervailing tarriffs that the US imposed on Canada - to name just one where we were vindicated by the WTO). Being the larger country, the US can sit these out until it resolved by the WTO years later - hoping that Canada (or some other country) will fold on the trade issue. And, Bush (albeit not insane or inherently evil as Saddam) still presents a greater 'potential' danger to the World, than Saddam ever could. World opinion (as seen in many polls taken around the World) seems to support this.

And, the US draft can always easily make a comeback. The US is at war (War on Terrorism which has been described as WWIV, where WWIII was the "Cold War") - a crusade that will last years, if not (and probably) decades (as it is unwinable, as history tells us). And a large percentage of US soldiers polled, suggested that they will not re-enlist. Fighting a majour global war on multiple fronts, if the US military staffing falls short, are you saying that Bush would not consider the draft to ensure "victory" or otherwise face possible defeat? If they open up a new front (as a number of pundits suggest may happen if 2005), then a comeback of the draft is a virtual forgone conclusion if not enough US soldiers re-enlist. I cannot see it as a political hot potato, as enough Americans (largely neocons and religious extremeists who do not question Bush or his administration, and accept all that Bush says and does as the Gospel) will stay with their man in the Oval Office. But we'll see how things shape up in a year and half to two years when Bush does not have to face re-election again - then the proverbial gloves will be off.

----
Cheers,

Dan
Founder and CEO

LionsGate Creative
GoodPassRobot
Magelln
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Re: [dan] Saddam captured! In reply to
I had hoped this thread could be based around the events of the last 24 hours regarding Saddam's capture and not a continuation of your bickering from the other thread Mad
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Re: [dan] Saddam captured! In reply to
American action in Iraq and Afghanistan has the approval of congress, the American people, and many allies.

It is true that mass stockpiles of WMD have not been found, the search continues. Yet other violations of applicable UN Resolutions have been found.

On the terrorism linkage, you're just wrong. There has been some very good reporting on this issue of late.

If Canada truly sees the Bush Administration as a threat, then that's probably a good thing.

As to so called world opinion - we're fortunate not to have to depend on that fallacy to make the right choices. The weak, and I'm not referring to military strength, always have a problem with leadership and tough choices. It offends their sense of self inforced impotence.

The military draft cannot make an easy comeback. SSP exists solely for the case of extreme emergency. Currently the all volunteer military is having no problem meeting its retention and enlistment goals.

I'd like to know who your pundits are on supposed plans for 2005, and what kind of Canadian home grown they've been smoking.
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Re: [Coombes] Saddam captured! In reply to
Oh come on Coombes, we're just having a little fun. Adults can disagree without it getting messy.

However, if you wish to steer this in another direction. What are your thoughts on his capture?

It looks like the last six months have been pretty rough on him. It will be facinating to learn what he's been doing, what he's had to do to avoid capture, etc.
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
I tend at this point to not believe it was really Saddam. He does have doubles and if it was really him I would think because of what he knows about the US gov't they would have killed him rather than capture him. Just my thoughts :)

I sure hope people do learn the truth about the US government and continue to speak out on the internet while we still have the freedom to do so .. may not be long.

For some interesting reading regarding the New World Order which as been forming for years and is a threat to what freedoms we still have please see the attached .txt file.

Unoffical DBMan FAQ

http://creativecomputingweb.com/dbman/index.shtml/
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Re: [LoisC] Saddam captured! In reply to
Watch out for the black helicopters, they're coming for you!

That's great, I needed a good chuckle.
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Re: [LoisC] Saddam captured! In reply to
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I tend at this point to not believe it was really Saddam.

I'd say a positive DNA match is fairly conclusive =) ...I also wouldn't have thought a body double would be hiding in a hole looking terribly gaunt. You may say Saddam instructed him to do so, but then I'd argue that the "Red Dawn" mission was based on spur of the moment secret intelligence and Saddam would not have been able to plant the decoy.

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I sure hope people do learn the truth about the US government and continue to speak out on the internet while we still have the freedom to do so .. may not be long.

What is the truth?
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
Does this mean we get to see Saddam paraded throughout US cities in a cage on a back of a truck as part of Bush's re-election campaign?

Now that Saddam has been captured. Can we now turn our attention to capturing George Bush? I fear Bush far more than I've ever feared Saddam.

- wil
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Re: [Wil] Saddam captured! In reply to
Yes, I suggest you immediately devote all your efforts to that goal.
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Re: [Wil] Saddam captured! In reply to
As a rational, fairly well educated person, I really can't fathom that view-point.

Even some of the doubters such as Jacques Chirac have praised the capture of Saddam.

Prevention is better than cure.
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
lol how amusing. Mr Anti-America himself (Saddam) was scoffing Mars bars in his little cabin before being captured Laugh
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Re: [Coombes] Saddam captured! In reply to
I liked how he exorted all his Fedayeen Saddam & other special units to "fight to the death", while he came out of that hole in the ground wanting to negotiate. Even his sons fought.

I think I've also read that his favorite movie is The Godfather.

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ArmyAirForces: Dec 15, 2003, 2:20 PM
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Re: [dan] Saddam captured! In reply to
Dan,

One word for 2004: Howard Dean!!!
--
Rob

SW Montana's Online Community
Modular Model Railroading

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BeaverheadRiver: Dec 15, 2003, 3:23 PM
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Re: [BeaverheadRiver] Saddam captured! In reply to
Sorry for bad language, Iam german ;-)
after i saw the pics of this man on tv i cant believe it was really saddam. Isn`t it true that saddam had many doubles, in fact many irakys have this beard, etc. Many people worldwide have problems with the US-politics. But it seems, that this new event is right on time now. GW Bush's popularity is rising again. What if somebody spent a lot of money to make someone look like the dictator or manipulated informations? As normal thinking german i stopped since the WTC-crash believing everything shown on TV. to fake people isn`t very nice. Nobody knows whats fact and whats fake but truth is somewhere between informations given to the people and the thoughts of everybody. Maybe in future people will know, what really happens in the last years and what was GW Bush's roll in this plot. But its also true, that history is written by winners.
greetings, zap, Leipzig, Germany

für alle die verstehen was hier steht:
habe versucht mit händen und füssen auszudrücken, das ich den Nachrichten über Saddams Festnahme mit skepsis begegne. Ist ers wirklich? Hat man jemanden gekauft, der mitspielt bis man ihm mit einem haufen Geld eine neue Identität verschafft? Es sieht auch ein wenig passend aus, daß jetzt, wo Busch's Popularität wegen der anhaltenden Anschläge im Irak immer weiter sinkt, der zum personifizierten Bösen gemachte Saddam endlich gefunden wurde?
bis zum nächsten mal, ZAP
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Re: [Zap] Saddam captured! In reply to
>>>Isn`t it true that saddam had many doubles, in fact many irakys have this beard, etc<<<

I think it was more the fact that the DNA matched up.

Cheers

Andy (mod)
andy@ultranerds.co.uk
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Re: [Andy] Saddam captured! In reply to
You have to give him credit for the WTC fake line though, that's pretty good. That beats black helicopters hovering over your house any day. I'd put that on par with the tinfoil hats.

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ArmyAirForces: Dec 16, 2003, 1:40 PM
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
Related website:

http://www.infowars.com/

Alex Jones has been helping to "Keep Austin Weird" for years now.

Cool
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Re: [Watts] Saddam captured! In reply to
I actually picture him, and his fellow travelers, whenever I think of black helicopters Tongue
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Re: [ArmyAirForces] Saddam captured! In reply to
Hello ArmyAirForces, Saddam is just a man , not an empire.

The USA likes to think FREEDOM.

To an Iraq person freedom is different to a US person.

Iraq has been in the world as parts since time began , the US ~200 years.

They have not been a new world and a new economy.

They have been old world for the people living there daily.

Yes They have the rich and powerful as all places do but

most people live as most people do here.

They buy food as they can afford and work.

They all have guns, and lots of them, that makes them feel safe at night.

Try to tell some one to trade in their AK47 and rounds

for an ocassional US military patrol for security.

You might as well tell the NYPD to not carry sidearms

as the bad guys have given up firearms for lent.

Local Iraqi people have to take local political leadership

and take charge and move on , before many people will disarm.

They did not buy guns to fight the US, they armed to fight each other.

If Saddam was all powerful why do his citizens have firearms ?

Ask the people of Iraq when did you get a firearm and why ?

I think you will find it will be : when I could afford and protection.



The US is trying to change a peoples attitude FAST.

In a world that has mercedes and camels and ak47 rifles.

The frontier west in the USA was not done in a year ? Was it ?

More thought should be done in the local political area and

then physical improvements will register with the individual people

and they will begin to be a free people and decide on their future.

Don't try to take a gun off a scared population , in Iraq , in Texas !

My penny

cornball
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Re: [cornball] Saddam captured! In reply to
Yes a reply to mine own but lest we forget :

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.




Thanks

cornball
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