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3DSM/CAD
Has anyone ever tried either of these software apps?

3D Studio Max
CAD

They look so cool......

http://www.3dmax.com/...dex.cfm?SubCat=Still

...how neat are those images.

Last edited by:

Paul: Jun 6, 2002, 2:01 PM
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Re: [Paul] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Yeah. Tried this one and loved it. Difficult to use /properly/ though.

In the end I gave up on it as I needed to probably go on a decent training course or come from a designer background. And besides - have you seen the price tag?!

- wil
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Re: [Wil] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
I have now...eek

http://www.3dmax.com/...roductInfo.cfm?ID=48
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Re: [Paul] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Yeah but who pays for it now-a-days, other than professional designers...I use it for "educational purposes only." But if you start making money off of it they will nail yah...Tongue



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
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I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
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AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
maya
electric universe
C4D or soemthing like that

are great!

ugh ... haven't tried them yet but have seen a lot of movies that use 'em.

Maya is like all mightly apparently, SGI software that is now ok for OSX. I think it works on M$ but not sure.

Laugh

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Yeah you are right...Maya is pretty much industry standard for 3D development...but it is sooo complex...my friend had to take a college course just to figure out how to use it, heh. The other ones aren't THAT popular, well I don't think so. What 3D SMax has goin for them is that it is probably the most 'used' 3D development product.



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
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I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
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AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
true. Maya apparently is pretty steep on the learning curve.

C4D is pretty new product based in Germany I believe.
but electric universe ... hmmm used to go by another similar name. Which is a pretty old product.

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
I am pretty sure tho that Maya is the industry standard...I believe that it costs a lot more than 3D Studio Max and is a lot more powerful. It is also smoother and more flexible in the design and camera movement departments...Both are good it's just that Maya is constantly perfecting their product and going to great limits to make it the best, but for this convenience you have to pay a pretty penny to enjoy it's benefits Unsure



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
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I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
--
AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Maya was offering a student licences, possibly to prevent pirating.

Yes, maya is a definitely 1 expensive program.

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Yeh I really gotta learn that, I am still having a hard time with 3D studio max, I really wanna learn how to do some cool effects with it. I mean I have the creativity but I can't express it well through photoshop as it is, hopefully 3D studio max will help me out a bit...By the way anyone in the forum got any tips on how to begin learning 3D studio?



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
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I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
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AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
It seems that I replied to myself Unsure



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
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I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
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AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
http://www.3dlinks.com/tutorials_max.cfm
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Re: [Paul] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
at least you've got the creativity.

I'm stuck to rearranging other's creativity. Hehe, actually having spacial ability is nice when you are packing the trunk / boot of a car with lot's of luggage Laugh

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Yeh...just remember that creativity is learned not inherited...I started in the same spot...there is just a breaking point where you become more independent...

Yeh I am pretty good with luggage too...we will meet up one day...we can have a race...a public spectacle if you will...



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
--
I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
--
AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Smile new sport ... luggage packing !!! Title will go to who can pack the most into a rover mini Laugh

@design

true but I just can't come up with a concept out of the blue. I cruise the net for interesting designs and then combine the ideas into my own. Blush

I just can't break the writers block wall so to say. Frown

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Even professional designers rip alot of their stuff off and recycle designs...as far as layouts go the coolest ones you can see are in HTML pages on the web of people showing ther portfolio...

If you like planetscapes and stuff go to
Art of Greg Martin and go to the vault section there is some really cool shit there done in PS, 3D SMax and Bryce.

It is hard nowadays to find a really cool and unique design all that varies now on the web is picture placement...some stuff is cool but for the most part i have seen it all before

I wanna learn how to do still portraits in 3D Studio and do them in Photoshop to make a kick ass web layout then make dynamic web content for the page...that is my next project



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
--
I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
--
AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Dam nice stuff.

I used to cruise by this site at times. http://www.pixeljerk.com/ it's an OSX icon based site but it seems like that some of the World Cup Graphics for teams and such used this type of idea for some images. Hmm I wonder if what we see in Japan is different than in other countries?

Laugh

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Man...what is up with supid Macs and their whole supid e-plastic thing...it is sooooo overused and soooo outdated...they have to get an original design...we have come far enough that there are cooler techniques out there...have you seen any other sites that use this type of design that are not affiliated with mac or mac designs? NOOOO!

There is a reason for that but if I get into it everyone will call me a mac-basher Unimpressed



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
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I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
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AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: 3DSM/CAD In reply to
hehe ... everybody is against me anyway. Let's fire up this thread a bit. All in good humor with nothing personally taken or given.

e-plastics is probably from the e-machine which is a PC imac rip off. Apple use "i" ... just to clarify Angelic

agreed ... this "e" and "i" business is getting pretty stale.

But, it was the iMac that brought back the skelton look. No, I just see a bunch of windoze looking colored sites. hehe ... dbman uses the same colors as w95 wasn't it?

Yes, there definitely color techiniques out there but why does everybody copy Apple then? XP's look and name are extremely suspicious. gee OSX and now XP !

Why do everybody copy the Apple look. I wonder if it's not just because many print companies and designers are mac based. Adobe was. Microsoft grew with Apple's help.
Those icons can't be used by PC folks because you don't have a PDF based GUI. Face it ... MicroSoft will be headed for a holding company Status.

Come on with Apple where would we all be?

A biege box with ADP/PS2 ports or whatever you call them. Floppy system installations, let alone the floppy would still be living. No USB, No Firewire (IEEE 3.95645342317349 what ever number it was has chosen to use iLink and Firewire as acceptable.) No AGP .... gamers would still be stuck in the PCI era. Fat ugly SCSI ports. Humgous printer connectors.

Apple is yes, expensive but so are the BMW and Benz machines.

KDE and Gnome would still be struggling. There never would have been natilus.

Name one GUI distro that comes close to what Apple has done with BSD. KDE is getting close but still 1-2 years away.

JAVA would be ... ??? lol where did it go land.

If apple didn't start pushing the flat display issue we still be stuck with CRTs.

Apple has brought style to servers. Their new server is just so sexy that I want one for my home. Box designs too apple wins hands down basically. How many PC makers get design awards?

Apple even brought the mouse to your desktop.

Ex-Apple employees split off and brought to the masses the Palm. BeOS a failed adventure is what Apple could have been if they were smart when Jobs wasn't around.

Yes, many of the regular Apple OS's were pitiful but now OSX is here and ... lol and behold even the Penguin is bewildered.

M$'s daunted Office suite is better due to all the moaning and groaning of mac users.

Apple for a time truly had a mastery of GUI useability. Recently, trying to bring BSD to everybody's desktop is difficult enough that they've traded off userability for *nix based system but .... what about next year? Apple will return to mastery status again because us mac users what to do our jobs quick and easy.

I have never had to deal with registry or bios troubles when adding a card, memory or even a harddrive. My system was smart enough to know what is up and up. Sure, overclocking is a pain but ... why should I risk my CPU for a few percentage points. Over heating ??? what's that?

I built a wintel machine on my own and spent days just trying to figure out how to install w2k. What a joke.
ugh... had to buy a sound card, an ethernet card, a scsi card, just to catch up to my main G4 tower.
Even then, w2k doesn't shut down properly.

So, ... are macs that bad? Give an OSX based machine a test drive.

Then, Tell me you don't like having BSD on your machine. Tell me you don't like having Apache built in.


ooops major rant. Angelic

side note: this must have been pent up stress. Too many times I've heard macs are lame but ... nobody ever mentions what they've benefited from having a company such as Apple existing and making invovations.

sorry for the rant and Crapshoot ... this isn't aimed at you specifically.

cheers and enjoy the rant!!!


LaughSlyLaughSlyLaughSlyLaughLaugh

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Hehe...nice rant...

Now...you are boasting what Macs because they look good...I could care less if my machine is blue, purple, grey, black, transparent or flat. Heck I dont care if it had little squgglies on the side...I use computers for functionality.

I don't have a problem with using my computer and troubleshooting it...why would I buy a mac what use do I have for it...?

An apache server, ooh its built in...I can just download it and install it and I am ready to go so that doesn't really matter...besides who cares about windows??? Windows sucks...

First off why use windows now when u can just use mandrake or red hat and give it a windows type GUI...i like the extra fuctionality and all that stuff...then if I have a problem I can tap right to the source through a terminal window...does windows let me do that??? NOOOOO, because if I saw their source I would probably cry at how lame and inefficient their coding is...so don't bring stupid Windows into this...its a pile of steamy crap...I only used windows because of their office XP, but now...openoffice has come and XP is gone...open source will destroy windows...

Now all we have to do is teach our youngins to learn UNIX and linux from a young age...instead of a windows interface...you know what I learned in school using windows...HOW TO POINT AND CLICK...it has come to good use...but I mean you can practice to a point...

XP, OSX...they don't sound the same to me...you realize that OS X has to do with 10...the roman numeral for ten...not X as in XP, which represents god knows what...if you count DOS, that is only thier 7th operating system...

I will give mac heavy props on USB tho...that has really revolutionized computers...firewire I don't use too much but i heard its great so more props right there for the mac...I use macs for graphics...cuz that is pretty much all they are good for in my opinion...i would never run an apache server on a mac...the person on the receiving end doesn't see your server tower...they see the webpage...

As to why is apple expensive, you din't really hit the nail all the way in there...yeh it is supposedly a pinncale machine...but you also have to remember that there is only one manufacturer that produces Mac hardware and that is Apple. BMW and Mercedes Benz...those are two companies right there...so you have alternatives to buying a BMW and Mercedes Benz...like pontiac, or dodge, or acura...etc.

Then you have to upgrade your system...that means that you have to buy new hardware and instead of shopping around for the item you want at the lowest possible price you have to go to an apple depot...buy the part...then you have to pay whatever they want you to pay for it...

PCs you can go to any computer store and pick up that product and install it yourself right into your machine with no hassles...and then you have to set it up...oooh big whoop...all it takes is a little software installation to put the drivers on...

final point that I am gonna hit on is that you are complaining about setting up the BIOS, and registry when install new stuff...well welcome to the world of computers man...just because you don't have to deal with the BIOS...doesn't mean that it is not thereUnsure. You should know how a computer functions before you use one or thats the way I feel...I mean I used to use only software then I figured out how my computer works and boom its all clear and I can all of sudden solve more problems than I could before...sure Mac is less hassle but at the end of the day if you computer breaks you will have to pay the tech support to come over and fix it up while I will just have to sit there for a half an hour and fix it myself...

BTW...I do like the mac OS X, but that is it...I don't really like mac because they are too preoccupied with making their product look good...I like the new shell features in OS X but still I prefer that of the Linux OS...OSX is like a crossbreed between the functionality of Windows and linux...but Gnome is really making some progress and KDE aint all that bad either...

Also mac takes care of the bottleneck between the CPU and RAM speeds versus the BUS speed...which is significantly slower on PCs if AMD (cuz AMD outperforms intel chips), can fix up this bottleneck problem solved and Macs don't have that much of a siginificance anymore...

The one thing I hate about buying a new comp is the wear and tear it takes...because people who make them don't get good cases that have alot of fans and vents in them...that will overheat your chips...so now I turned to cooling such as cooling plates for ram and special conductive jelly to filter out excess heat, put in more fans and of course a chrome orb for my CPU...the folks at dell know how to make the computer but not how to maintain it i think...I just have to work on keepin it myself...I think will make the next one myself...btw my geForce card just overheated the other day had to get a new one in...it was hotter than my damn stove...

heh...guess I beat your rant hands down eh...thats just directed to some of your points QooQ, some of it is just miscellaneous...enjoyLaughLaughLaugh



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
--
I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
--
AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
Hmmm....
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Re: [Paul] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
you are alive Paul...I thought you would have died of hunger by now Sly



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
--
I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
--
AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
rant continues!!

I will not be beat .... hahahaahahahahahahahahah ... good gracious I'm kidding eh!

hehe ... I mentioned M$ and windows basically in passing. Windows only excelled because Gates is a great businessman, the devil possibly but still a smart businessman. Lol ... got himself in trouble though.

Concerning windoze you summed it up best -- sucks. Your word not mine Smile

linux and OSX ... what's different under the hood? Linux is by Linus ---- OSX by BSD.
Apple just made their GUI better than GNOME and KDE hands down flat. Nautilus, well didn't they go under and put up most of their code for opensource therefore recently KDE and Gnome has gotten better? (I could be wrong). If you don't like Apple's gui just install X11 and then slap on some other theme.

Teaching youngins to use unix. .... Apple just opened the market for that ... offering iBooks and what not to the schools. How many now? A few million machines. Not even Dell teaches *nix to school children.

OSX is yes number 10 and XP is the 7th. hehe ... OSX is based on 30+ years of unix technology. XP on top of NT which is on top of windows 3.0 which is based on dos. Your choice.

Yes, apple is expensive but ... I don't feel the need to buy a new CPU every year. More like every 3 years. I don't need to get a new sound card since the built in one is pretty much great as is. Ok, monitor cards ... but still most of the time I don't even fudge with drivers. So, yes I pay more in the beginning but I wonder how much you spend (excluding harddrives and memory upgrades) in 3 years on your machine compared to a mac users 3 years?

Apple is still expensive and should lower their prices by a few more hundred but still what I pay saves on troubles and headaches in the long run.

Expensive parts? Not really considering most graphic cards are the same price. Peripherals same here. Memory a tad bit higher for macs because Apple requires better made memory. sound card isn't necessary. SCSI cards if really needed are basically the same price. I can only think that of the CPU which like I mentioned above isn't really necessary to update for a while. Even by the time you feel the need for a new and faster CPU most motherboard technology has been advanced and system bus speeds are up and what not therefore even a PC user will want to upgrade then too.

Pretty boxes. Of course, they look great in most homes. They prove a point on somebodys desk at an office. And if you're a designer it adds a touch class to your shop. True only an appearnace benefit but it sure isn't like you have to hide it away under some desk.

Knowing how a machine works is truly an advantage. Yes, apple has a bios that can be reset anytime on startup with a combined keystroke. No need to edit a registry by hand.
Problem is that many folks don't know how a machine works let alone are able to change their memory. I know several people who bought both wintel machines and macs. The mac folks actually use their machines while the M$ based crowd normally let's dust gather on their machines.
More advanced user are definitely different on both sides.

Wear and tear? Hmmm Apple builds from the beginning for that. I don't need gel or orbs or super turbo coolers ... my machine is always pretty cool. LoL ... I look at the temp just because it's interesting and haven't done so in about 4 years.


OSX isn't just some fancy GUI. It's a true BSD machine that just has beaten the Linux crowd to the table. Of course, Apple cheated because they have more money and resources than the Linux crowd and you have to pay for it while Linux is basically free ... unless you buy the CD's from redhat or some other distro. If OSX isn't a true *nix then Hubbard the main guy from the BSD group would be working for Apple.

The only thing I can see that puts apple at a disadvantage is that you can't really tinker with your machine as much as you can with a PC box. I like tinker and enjoyed making my PC frankenstein. But, when the day was over the novelty of that even wore off. I think I'll spend that free time on my stereo system in my car instead.

Apple now sells a true server too. Pretty dam nice piece of hardware at that too. And don't try to write off OSX Server, Because it does a hell of a lot, a lot quicker than redhat or some other distro. The only thing missing right now is hosting panel for regular users, like cpanel or plesk. You don't even need webmin to make controling easy. Besides it has streaming built in and WebObjects.

cheers ....

I like this thread.
Finally getting to the nit and griddy with facts and truths and no BS gibberish.

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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Re: [QooQ] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
I'mmmmmm Baaaaaaack...for another contribution to this fantastic and informative post...be sure to bookmark this post Tongue...and doesn't anyone else have an opinion other than the debatable "Hmmmmm"? Or does no one know hardware anymore Unsure. I myself like to know how something works before I use it...just a little trait of mine...heh.

Well we can get the whole Windows thing out of the picture because we both agree that it sucks...so that is knocked off the table...(glad that it is gone, there is nothing debateable about windows because at the end of the day it is only the most widely used because we aren't trained to use anything more powerful at a young age). Gates could be a great business man...but thusfar he has made quite a number of boo boos, or so I have seen. Tongue

I haven't gone much into UNIX vs Mac OSX but I still prefer my linux... Well if you like the whole Mac inteface that is good for you...but I don't so if you want to use Linux and like the mac OSX just open up GNome and slap a good ol skin on there that emulates the OSX appearance and functionality. GNome still has one steppingstone to overcome of course but what skinnable application doesn't? I feel that the OS should not just be skinnable but you can change your settings based on the skin you choose...like windows vs OSX vs Linux functionalit... windows isn't fully skinnable which I don't really like and neither is X11 is it? I mean you can change colors and stuff but as far as the overall interface goes you can't tamper with that can you...I haven't really read alot about that...

Dude just because they donate computers Dell and Apple do not create the computer curriculum as we know it...I know that our school uses both Dells and Macs macs are basically for our audio visual department...so I use them there but predominently I use mine at home...

Yes I have both Mac and PC but I only use my Mac for graphics...that is pretty much all...it sucks at everything that my PC does so well Wink.

More like OSX ripped off 30+ years of Unix technology Laugh.

Yes XP is based on NT technology...but the key word is technology...the reason for this is because 2000 another system built on NT tech...was the first acutal operating system that they made...98 was like a prelude to the first OS...98 was somewhat independent from DOS but still had some DOS functionality...2000 totally eliminated that and became one in its own...you have to give windows some credit tho...they have come so far in the past few years its incredible...maybe Billy is stealing more ideas...who knows...but something definitely happend. As far as the "chain of command" you stated back there...that could not be further from the truth. As I said before...2000 and DOS are totally different...all windows OSs ran off of DOS up to 98, that partially did, then 2000 was totally independent from DOS.

When you term it CPU do you mean PC or buying a new chip for your computer? My old computer has lasted me like 5 years and still performs well...thats just because like everything else I maintain it. You talked about your precious vehicle...I maintain my computer system and I maintain my Lexus...they are both machines...so I keep them in good shape to keep them running like they should...that means regular tuneups and the lot...as far as upgrading goes...I do not upgrad taht often, I just upgrade when I want my computer to go faster...memory upgrades aren't that much and harddrives...are standard dude...how much room do you have on your HD 60 Gigs? Well i have 3 harddrives...just because I want the extra space...and two of them are portable...I set them up so that you can send files to them and move from computer to computer It is like CDs but I get alot more room Tongue. The fact that I need these upgrades could not be further from the truth...I do not need them I just WANT them...Laugh.

As far as headaches go...most of my headaches come from programming rather than my PC, unless you really fool around with it you do not encounter major problems...and if you do that is the fault of the OS and not the computer...the computer is stupid it only takes instructions from my OS and does what I want it to do...again...I upgrade because I want to...not because I need to...but again I like that I do not have to maintain the temp in my mac...that is a great feature...but noone builds computers anymore that can cool themselves efficiently...I don't think that even the Mac os has enough vents...and shouldn't vents be at the top anyway...I mean hot air rises right??? Tongue...Maybe I could poineer that...hehe don't try to take it I am on my way to the patent office right now Tongue.

Hehe, well expensive parts...I think I covered that already but just to recap, I don't buy these parts because I need them its because I WANT them...Tongue(last time I will say it I promise). Hehe...apple memory is better eh...prove it then...I will not believe it till I see it and if you have no proof I do not believe it. What does Mac use for ram anyway??? DDR or RD or what, their own brand?

Well it is always important for a mac user to want to gobble up those BUS and CPU upgrades since they go hand in hand...but if the Memory speed isn't there there really is no point...your computer is only as fast as its slowest part...REMEMBER THAT...that will be one of the only pieces of valueable information you will get from me if you didn't know this already. But if you neglect the bus on a MAC you have pretty much lost your advantage over the PC right there...but PCs are catching up as far as Bus speeds go...i think that the P4 is capable of 466MHz...I dunno if this is totally correct tho...

If I really want a pretty box for my PC what is stopping me from getting one??? Of course you are restricted to some style but you are with mac...I don't think that you can do much as far as box upgrades with the new and old I-mac designs...btw...I hate the new imac design...looks too much like a lamp for me...what I am sayin is that I can make my PC look sexy if I want it to...

What are you comparing to as far as the PCs gathering dust...I use my PC...I don't know what you are implying if you could clear that up for me...so that I can show you that you are wrong Tongue.

I agree with you on the maintenance level...if I didn't have to bother maintaining my computer myself I would be a very happy man...but alas this is not the case and I have to go though it...but hey there are disadvantages to everything...just as long as my computer is maintained well it will run well and that is when I am happiest Smile. But again you are right...it is a pain in the ass(I shouldn't say that eh...Ok, its a pain the buttocks)...

OSX is somewhat still a fancy GUI tho...again as I said before...Apple despite their resouces stole the main functionality of Linux...the only reason that Linus doesn't sell his product is because it is open source and it is illegal to sell opensource products...what you pay for when you buy linux is the packaging cost...not the actual coding software...

Again remember yes...apple does have resources under thier belt and they did kinda cheat...but Linux is open source so it just keeps getting better over time in all aspects, from the kernel to the GUI, people spend time perfecting the Linux OS.

Still I like to tinker with my computer as much as I do with my car and stero...its just kinda fun...that sounds kinda nerdy...and I don't usually like to take that kind of self-image on and see myself as a computer geek but I guess thats what is sounds like and I cannot rectify this in monotone text.

An AMD processor inside a server would outperform the OSX server dude...and who is willing to pay the money when you have tha kind of option...in MY opinion Mac should stick to graphics Tongue. Its just that AMD does sooooo many processes per clock cycle...its insane..double that of the P4 processor...and i think that it was 1.3x or something like that more than the Mac CPU. As far as webmin goes how the hell is that possible...maybe you should define "webmin" I mean you always have to maintain a server...even if it IS mac it will still get fudged up somehow...you are giving it too much credit...IT ISN'T THAT STABLE...

heh...kinda outdid myself there...maybe???

well enjoy that Sly and keep on postin' !!!

Notice how I made good use of the webicons there...as opposed to my dry first post with a total of 1...



Crapshoot70 (this isn't my real name)
--
I don't like anyone...but everyone LOVES me Unsure
--
AKA...The Post Pirate Pirate

Last edited by:

Crapshoot70: Jun 14, 2002, 10:27 AM
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Re: [Crapshoot70] 3DSM/CAD In reply to
ugh ... gonna take me an hour to write my reply Laugh

@tech side

First let's clear this up once and for all. OSX is BSD based Darwin. Only real *nix heads can really comment on the finer points of UNIX vs BSD vs Linux vs OSX. From the bits and pieces I understand, FreeBSD still seems to in the lead. Hubbard who was with the BSD(open, free, net) is now at Apple. So, we need to get somebody that really knows what's going on to sort this out for us.

OSX is Darwin which is basically freeBSD so they didn't rip off Linus or Linux but rather BSD. Darwin is a modified/restricted open source project. And Yes, OSX gets better because of this but at the same time limited by which functions they will include in their distro. IE: wget has been dumped and curl is included in the standard distro but we can still install wget on our own. 1 hassle that many of have faced was with a poor GCC distro. Yet, this has been getting better with every update.

Darwin itself has been ported (or is in the final stages of being ported) to regular PC hardware. Of course, the gui is not included but quicktime streaming server is included.

If anything that is up to debate is the Mach based kernel which still has lot's of legacy code from NEXT included. So folks are complaining that it's not as fast as the Linux based ones. lol ... who am I know different or even dare to comment on this.

Being Stable is a good question. Which *nix distro is the stablest?

Personally, the time I frigged up my computer was when I ditto'd a fully functional system to a another larger drive. Hey, even then I was extremely surprised. Almost all permissions went over properly. "." directories were ok. MySQL database carried over.

@gui side

As for X11 I thought that it was the main gui engine for the other *nixs outside of OSX. Gnome and KDE are just a theme engine like enlightenment ice and the others but much more developed. OSX vs X11 would be a little diffcult because X11 is now probably legacy coded while OSX has been able to start basically from scratch and uses PDF technology to produce it's outstanding graphics. Colors and design is not what I referring to here. But rather the ability to produce GUI based graphics, like icons that never pixelize due to re-sizing.

Apple still uses what they call the finder which I think controls the main themeing of the system (lol .. never did bother to study up on this) but a few folks have started their own projects to replace this finder with their own version.

Apple is very protective of their gui, I never did find any real reason for this.

@control panel like abilities

I mentioned webmin since it's an easy package to identify with. Caldera bought the rights or sponsors the developer. Gee, why would they do that? Anyway, back to topic. A user here "maxpico" would probably be able to explain this better since he uses the OSX server distro while I just use regular OSX.

Let see now. I was thinking of the ability to start and stop of services like apache, ftp with out going to the command line. An called Netinfo Manger is included that let's you control domains, vhosts, user and stuff that's way out of my league. Ping, finger, whois and such are all in one quick and easy app. I haven't tried OSX server but reports have been that maintaining a server is really easy and quick. I wasn't referring to over speed of the server but more to servicing and maintaining it.

@windows

ughh, I thought I had made a mistake. Thanks for the correction.

But still, NT doesn't compare to *nix

I agree that M$ has gotten better at designing products. Their recent release of Office for once made me remeber what they were able to do back in the late 80's. Ahh Mac users bitch about Billy swipping ideas but in reality who doesn't ?

@school

you mentioned:

Quote:
Now all we have to do is teach our youngins to learn UNIX and linux from a young age...instead of a windows interface...you know what I learned in school using windows...HOW TO POINT AND CLICK...it has come to good use...but I mean you can practice to a point...

I had replied:
Quote:
Teaching youngins to use unix. .... Apple just opened the market for that ... offering iBooks and what not to the schools. How many now? A few million machines. Not even Dell teaches *nix to school children.

So why now?
Quote:
Dude just because they donate computers Dell and Apple do not create the computer curriculum as we know it...I know that our school

I used Dell because they are the PC counter part to Apple in many ways and also has been aiming strongly for the educational based sales. OSX is Darwin is BSD so ... Apple is helping students learn *nix in a round about way.

Wink gottcha.

@harware

lol ... how true. Not many people really need better parts except for those that do rendering and movie production probably. So, let's just agree and say we buy parts because we just "want" them Laugh

True, overall speed is affected by the slowest part which can even include your harddrive. (adding info only)

imacs and the cube don't use fans. The cube had vents on top, so you've already out of business for that idea.

Regarding memory, I mentioned that macs require better "made" memory. (long post confusion at work I guess Crazy) Meaning that any cheap five and dime stick shouldn't be used; even in your PC. Memory failures and misses and what not I guess.

Ok, sure you won't see many mac users buying and changing their cases. But you mentioned that you can't do box upgrades for an imac. LOL ... can you upgrade an e-machine or the Mattel barbie and matchbox machines? These machines have a monitor built in the box.

If you don't like the iLamp well who am I to complain. I haven't had a chance to whack the monitor around on the iLamp to test for base stability and arm wear so I'm holding off on passing judgement on the "iLamp"

@CPU

I was referring to CPU as "C.P.U" dang what was it "Control Processing Unit" or is it "Computer Processing Unit" lol ... who cares.

So to make it easy for you Laugh CPU = chip for your computer.

OK, Apple is taking a beating on CPU speeds and what not. I really wonder if Apple shouldn't just rethink it's alliance with Motorola and IBM. Possibly add in AMD or Transmeta.
But, like you said above, this speed is just a "want" not a "need" feature. I'll try to explain a bit more about this at the bottom.

@???????? -- lol what are you trying to say?

Quote:
An AMD processor inside a server would outperform the OSX server dude...and who is willing to pay the money when you have tha kind of option...in MY opinion Mac should stick to graphics . Its just that AMD does sooooo many processes per clock cycle...its insane..double that of the P4 processor...and i think that it was 1.3x or something like that more than the Mac CPU.

Please check out Apple's 1U xserver for more details. Now, I wonder if an AMD chip is that necessary? Also, don't forget that xserver uses Mac OS X Server which is the server package of OSX.

Expensive ???? the xserver comes in at around US$3,000 for the bottom of the line model. What would a similarly equipped PC machine cost?

hehe ... I'd love to buy one of these babies for my next home use machine.

You go from AMD does sooo many processes to a P4 chip to a Mac CPU. ??? lol I got lost. Anyway, G4 chips are basically by Motorola and the G3 line by IBM. All 3 companies work together building chips in one form or another, at times like recently pursuing slightly different paths.

Why is "Mac should stick to graphics" fit in here? ???? (long-thread-osis) ?

@graphics

I'm glad that you think that Macs are great for graphics!

Name one *nix distro that influenced Adobe to port their products. Or any major piece of software.

I wonder if Apple is gunning to destroy SGI or just to bring total editing ability to your desktop? Or to keep on top of SONY and their efforts? cnet.com article about Apple's latest purchase.

@linux box

I've been thinking about either getting a used G4 powerbook or a new Dell laptop. Of course, XP, isn't even an option since I want to be able to do web work at my desk while at work.

My ideal machine would be fast, easy to use, and powerful and of course reasonably priced.

I'm not against PC machines or even PC based systems. I just have preferences.

I was thinking a Dell notebook and use a Linux distro with openoffice, gimp, sketch thereby having all I need but ... having used OSX for a while has been addicting and getting used to a new enviornment is a bit troublesome. ughhhh ... the "want" factor at work.

Best solution probably would be an old PC notebook with Linux / Darwin / freeBSD.

So, here I spend all my time fitting for an Apple based system but when it comes down to it "need" and "want" should be thouroughly evaluated before making any decision.

Cheers!!!

openoffice + gimp + sketch ... Smile
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