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DMOZ Problems

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DMOZ Problems
The DMOZ will not list my site because I'm using an import of their data without attribution. Even though I have heavily modified the data and added many new categories and links. So I'm trying to add their attribution.

This is their attribution

<p><table border="0" bgcolor="#336600" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
<td>
<table width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tr align="center">
<td><font face="sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"
color="#FFFFFF">Help build the largest human-edited
directory on the web.</font></td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#CCCCCC" align="center">
<td><font face="sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"> <a
href="http://dmoz.org/cgi-bin/add.cgi?where=$cat">Submit
a Site</a> - <a href="http://dmoz.org/about.html"><b>Open Directory
Project</b></a> -
<a href="http://dmoz.org/cgi-bin/apply.cgi?where=$cat">Become
an Editor</a> </font>
</td></tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</table>


I need a global that will fill in the $cat with the current category being viewed so that it's format is Business/Computers/Software

I thought I could just use <%title%> but I can't find where to change the layout of this. Business : Computers : Software

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Craven
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Re: [craven32] DMOZ Problems In reply to
Isn't it <%Full_Name%> ?
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Re: [afinlr] DMOZ Problems In reply to
I guess so. It works.

I've never seen that tag before though. I looked through the templates to see if the tag was there and didn't see it! Hmm I'm glad it was that easy!!!

Thanks,

Craven
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Re: [craven32] DMOZ Problems In reply to
Actually, being listed in DMOZ is not something I'd worry about.

In doing a major overhaul of my sites, many of my links are not in DMOZ, and many of the searches I do give no hits in DMOZ. They do not spider, and as such, list only "websites" rather than current events, news, and such. After a few times of not finding valid info, people will tend to use on of the more up-to-date and current engines. Searches on some of my sites yeild hits that return '0' results in DMOZ.

I find the _only_ time I check on DMOZ is for an import.

I would love to see some real stats on this, but DMOZ is more of a repository for other links sites, than an end destination in and of itself. Also, their noseology is a bit odd. And some of their topics are way too deep.

Anyway... changing your site around to get listed with DMOZ is not something you should worry about, unless you know it will make a difference.

Run a search on them, google, altavista, msn's default, or even Yahoo (which is more dmoz-like than any of the others). I think you'll find an interesting difference in the data, depending on the "timeliness" of your searches.

While it may have 4,000,000 links, 500,000 categories, and 70,000 editors, it makes me wonder what they all do... and that means less than an average of 10 links per category, and with some categories having 10's of 1000's of links, it makes you wonder what all the "empty" categories do.

Anyway.... DMOZ seems to be more of a seed site for niche engines, rather than a search directory of itself. Then again, getting listed in DMOZ, would tend to ensure you are listed with the other niche engines if that is your target.

After your directory is seeded, get it listed with google, altavista, yahoo, etc, and if it's a niche directory, you'll find yourself diverging from DMOZ greatly (as you have said you have done).

I find their "attribution" requirements excessive, since after an intial seeding of a directory, *MOST* directories look less and less like theirs, and you end up plugging their site, and making their site look good, based on the work you did. If they had a different attribution "Some data originally imported from DMOZ" or something similar, it might not be so bad.

Also, with our thumbnailer/thumbshotter program, we are able to fill in the gaps from http://thumbshots.org, and even regenerate whole directories of images.

While we can in no way do a million images a day, and we are far from automated, for most targeted/niche directories a few thousand links is all that need to be maintained.

anyway.... this message caught me somewhat down on DMOZ for actually being so "poor" in the search results.


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.
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Re: [pugdog] DMOZ Problems In reply to
The ONLY reason I bother to list with the DMOZ is because it is the only way to get into Googles directory. Plus it adds a substantial increase in your Google Pagerank. Plus all the smaller niche sites that do add your link help to boost your link popularity which never hurts.

I agree that you almost never see any hits coming from the DMOZ itself but what happens at Google after you're listed is another story. Other than boosting your site the DMOZ is pretty much useless as far as searching is concerned.

My site already is doing good at Google and the New Yahoo but I would like the boost from the DMOZ.

I mentioned the fact that their attribution was ridiculous because I plan on only using their data import just one time! After which it will be heavily modified and nothing like the DMOZ. No one at their forum had a comment on this.

I agree that they should maybe just allow a link back to them and maybe they would actually get a little more people to pay attribution. Just my 2 cents.

I was thinking of giving the thumbnailer a try. I'm just not sure how efficient it would be on my site since the database is fairly large. I'm still thinking about it though because it does look very interesting.

Craven
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Re: [craven32] DMOZ Problems In reply to
Not sure where you heard it helps your sites page rank to be listed in DMOZ. I have several sites that are PR4-6 and they are not in DMOZ. As a matter of fact, I have 2 very similarly structured directories, started at the same time, both LinksSql, the one in DMOZ is a PR4 and the one NOT is Dmoz is a PR6. They have different topics and thus different content. My sites with the most consistent PR are my phpNuke sites.
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Re: [loxly] DMOZ Problems In reply to
I have some sites that were coming up #1 in their category, or a closely associated one, and those sites are *not* listed with DMOZ. That is what started me looking around at what DMOZ is and isn't.

If you look, Google attributes DMOZ, but then states they modified it.... *greatly* <G> I guess it gives them a nosology that they don't have in the spider itself. So, on a search, they can then list categories you can browse. The results sets are quite different though.

I think there are two concepts here.

1) the search engine/spider that *is* "GOOGLE".
2) the directory/browseable layout that is originally DMOZ.

Google integrates DMOZ into it's spider/engine.

How you rank in one, has pretty much no bearing on how you rank in the other... and given my druthers, I'd rather rank above the fold on Google -- or even on the top of page2, than #1 on DMOZ.


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.
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Re: [loxly] DMOZ Problems In reply to
The thing is once you are listed in the DMOZ you are included in their RDF files for other directories to use. Once you are added to several other directories then your link popularity will increase and so will your PR. It does help to be listed. My PR is 5 without the listing but with a listing it could be 6 which makes a difference.

I added the attribution and the next day my site dropped from a number of search terms at Google. I'm wondering if Google penalizes sites that use data from the DMOZ? Maybe it assumes that there is no original content when it sees the attribution. Has anyone else experienced a drop after adding the attribution?
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Re: [craven32] DMOZ Problems In reply to
I don't think that was the reason you dropped. It takes longer than a day for Google to process changes.

You are right in theory, however it would take time to get into those other directories and get PR from them. New directories using DMOZ data don't have PR worth worrying about. Thinking that a DMOZ listing is going to boost your PR is not accurate unless you have a good site of your own to back it up. Backlinks get Google to pay attention but don't automatically help or hurt your PR. I gave my example, I rest my case.

Build your site content and spend your time making a better site, with good meta tags and Google will find you. There are no shortcuts.
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Re: [loxly] DMOZ Problems In reply to
I had a fight with Dmoz as well.
As far as I can see the attribution only applies if you are linking to their database. This is not what we are doing though Dmoz likes to think that this is not the case. Big Brother tactics as I see it. They dropped me from their indexing. It did hurt site stats a bit, maybe 20% in the short term becuase of the 'linking' by other sites who draw direclty from their database. I have had long discussions with Pugdog about proper keywords and what people look for & etc, and he certainly appears to know his stuff. Been at it a lot of years.
My opinion is don't worry about them do your own thing.

Last edited by:

Gypsypup: Mar 17, 2004, 2:25 PM
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Re: [loxly] DMOZ Problems In reply to
>> There are no shortcuts.

That is very true. Google and other search engines have spent 90% of their time trying to beat the people who are trying to beat the system, and the only way was to "get smarter" and look for content, not "spam" and to develop the technology to figure out the difference. Everytime the spammers figure something out, google/etc have to combat it to make the search engines useful.

The spammers don't realize that trying to monopolize the top positions doesn't help anyone, since it's all 'fake'. If the content doesn't match what the user is searching for, then the engines become useless.

But, you can't stop the theives. All you can do is block them for awhile.

The problem with the spam is they are not paying for it. If it was junk mail, or even phone calls, they would have to pay. But listing sites, spamming, and such only takes a small amount of their time, to waste HUGE amounts of everyone elses.


PUGDOG� Enterprises, Inc.

The best way to contact me is to NOT use Email.
Please leave a PM here.