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tom at modscape

Mar 19, 2006, 12:56 PM

Post #1 of 22 (7335 views)
Permalink
Version 3

http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3

Updated. Pretty much ready to roll. Please send along any comments.
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michael at d2m

Mar 19, 2006, 1:13 PM

Post #2 of 22 (7240 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>
> http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3
>
> Updated. Pretty much ready to roll. Please send along any comments.

Ok, here we go - just a few questions to start with ;)

- the page looks pretty dark/heavy, got a 'daylight' version ?

- Seachbox is missing

- What about the login + navbars ?

- This is just the frontpage, is there a template for the next level ?


Michael

--
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http://planetzope.org

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tom at modscape

Mar 19, 2006, 5:12 PM

Post #3 of 22 (7292 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

>
> - the page looks pretty dark/heavy, got a 'daylight' version ?

Not really, no. I don't think this version is "dark" at all.

>
> - Seachbox is missing

Will add.

>
> - What about the login + navbars ?

Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about "navbars"? The
navigation is up top, the black bar.

>
> - This is just the frontpage, is there a template for the next level ?

I was thinking every page would have this basic layout. I would think
a lot of traffic would come from search results and send people to
sub-page, so it would be good to have the right column pretty much
the same on all pages. Having said that, I'll mock up a few sub pages.

>
>
> Michael
>
> --
> http://zope.org/Members/d2m
> http://planetzope.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

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brad at allendev

Mar 19, 2006, 7:25 PM

Post #4 of 22 (7297 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

> http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3

>>- the page looks pretty dark/heavy, got a 'daylight' version ?
>
>Not really, no. I don't think this version is "dark" at all.

It looks good to me. I asked my wife, Bonnie, who is opinionated
about color schemes and she described it as "soothing and calm".
If you want flashy, you may want to brighten it up, but I think this
looks appropriate for Zope. It's important to convey seriousness,
good organization and professionalism. Visitors should perceive
that Zope is active, widely used for professional work, and that
the site has usefulness.

The Zope News and Zope Products section do seem slightly drab.
Drab is ok for documention but news stories could use just a
little bit of zing.

Bonnie said she liked the lilies, and they do add a nice bit of
understated beauty to the site. I don't know if the naturalistic
imagery means anything, but adding a bit of "aliveness"
to the page certainly can't hurt.

The right side blurbs with icons looked really good at first glance
but on further examination I think the question mark over the
Zope sphere is visually confusing. An alternative might be to
get rid of the question mark overlay.

The Zope-Power Sites at the bottom only provides one example.
How about a link to more Zope-power sites and/or success stories?

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michael at d2m

Mar 19, 2006, 11:45 PM

Post #5 of 22 (7226 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>> - What about the login + navbars ?
>
> Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about "navbars"? The
> navigation is up top, the black bar.
>

I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global
actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner
block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions.

>>
>> - This is just the frontpage, is there a template for the next level ?
>
> I was thinking every page would have this basic layout. I would think a
> lot of traffic would come from search results and send people to
> sub-page, so it would be good to have the right column pretty much the
> same on all pages. Having said that, I'll mock up a few sub pages.
>

See, you've got a first page, with one column and a sidebar floated to
the right.
Is the level2 template going to have the same sidebar all over, is it a
one-column layout, how about styles for headings, paragraphs,
blockquotes, tables, inputs, ... ?

Michael

--
http://zope.org/Members/d2m
http://planetzope.org

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andrew at sawdog

Mar 20, 2006, 6:29 AM

Post #6 of 22 (7243 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 08:45 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
> >> - What about the login + navbars ?
> >
> > Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about "navbars"? The
> > navigation is up top, the black bar.
Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
'managing' the site: manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
additional skin which includes these macros. Just an idea.
> >
>
> I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global
> actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner
> block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions.
It should be fairly trivial to work these in - remember, these types of
actions are not going to be for the general user populace....thus
shouldn't be a main focus for his designs INMNSHO.

Andrew
>
> >>

>
> Michael
>

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andrew at sawdog

Mar 20, 2006, 6:31 AM

Post #7 of 22 (7279 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 21:25 -0600, Brad Allen wrote:
> > http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3

>
> The Zope News and Zope Products section do seem slightly drab.
> Drab is ok for documention but news stories could use just a
> little bit of zing.
>
The News and Products sections you see now are not going to be paramount
on the page when all is said and done. We're trying to get some good
catchy text/phrases going for the home page which draws users into the
'meat' of the site. A smaller presence of the news and products needs
to be considered.

Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
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michael at d2m

Mar 20, 2006, 7:09 AM

Post #8 of 22 (7293 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 08:45 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>>>> - What about the login + navbars ?
>>> Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about "navbars"? The
>>> navigation is up top, the black bar.
> Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
> 'managing' the site: manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
> additional skin which includes these macros. Just an idea.
>> I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global
>> actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner
>> block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions.
> It should be fairly trivial to work these in - remember, these types of
> actions are not going to be for the general user populace....thus
> shouldn't be a main focus for his designs INMNSHO.
>

Understood and ok with me. Its just that we never talked about that
solution before (i've always seen the modscape mockups as a drop-in
replacement for the current mode of zope.org operation).

Michael

--
http://zope.org/Members/d2m
http://planetzope.org

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andrew at sawdog

Mar 20, 2006, 7:44 AM

Post #9 of 22 (7267 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 16:09 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>
> Understood and ok with me. Its just that we never talked about that
> solution before (i've always seen the modscape mockups as a drop-in
> replacement for the current mode of zope.org operation).
Forgot to reply all....
This thought had never occurred to me, thus the divergence. I had
always thought developmental work was to move forward the 'new' site -
never deal with the current one. It was my opinion it was stay as is.

Andrew
>
> Michael
>

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brad at allendev

Mar 20, 2006, 8:54 AM

Post #10 of 22 (7286 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Here are some comments from Jeff Rush.

>Delivered-To: allendev.com-brad [at] allendev
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:42:26 -0600
>From: Jeff Rush <jeff [at] taupro>
>X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>To: Brad Allen <brad [at] allendev>
>Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Version 3
>
>(I'm not a subscriber to the ZWeb list yet, so I'll send my comments to you)
>
>Brad Allen wrote:
>>> http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3
>>
>>
>>>>- the page looks pretty dark/heavy, got a 'daylight' version ?
>>>
>>>Not really, no. I don't think this version is "dark" at all.
>
>I like the colors -- calming and clear. I suppose if enough people
>dislike it, you could dial up the brightness of the blue a touch.
>
>>Bonnie said she liked the lilies, and they do add a nice bit of
>>understated beauty to the site. I don't know if the naturalistic
>>imagery means anything, but adding a bit of "aliveness"
>>to the page certainly can't hurt.
>
>I like them - they are understated and don't get in the way.
>
>>The right side blurbs with icons looked really good at first glance
>>but on further examination I think the question mark over the
>>Zope sphere is visually confusing. An alternative might be to
>>get rid of the question mark overlay.
>
>The question mark either needs to be dropped or enlarged so it
>extends beyond the Zope circle.
>
>>The Zope-Power Sites at the bottom only provides one example.
>>How about a link to more Zope-power sites and/or success stories?
>
>This is a draft - I'm sure there will be more. A question is how
>will multiple success stories be visually represented?
>
>---
>I have bigger questions though.
>
>1. Does the page print well?
>
>2. Is the site to represent -both- Zope2 and Zope3, or just Zope3?
>Wit mentions of Plone, CMF and Zope Products on the drop-down menus,
>it seems to be targeted at Zope2.
>
>3. On those drop-down menus, lose the constant prefix "Zope". For
>example, under "Business", we don't need "Zope Training", just
>"Training".
>
>4. Re the copyright at the bottom - shouldn't that be Zope Foundation instead?
>
>5. I like the drop-down menus, although they won't print.
>
>6. The icon along the right for "Zope Docs" looks elongated.
>
>Overall it looks like a good start and I like the direction. It
>needs more filling out to get a good grasp of how the overall site
>will flow.
>
>-Jeff

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andrew at sawdog

Mar 20, 2006, 9:19 AM

Post #11 of 22 (7252 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

> >---
> >I have bigger questions though.
> >
> >1. Does the page print well?
Dunno, a print css would solve this easily.
> >
> >2. Is the site to represent -both- Zope2 and Zope3, or just Zope3?
> >Wit mentions of Plone, CMF and Zope Products on the drop-down menus,
> >it seems to be targeted at Zope2.
It has always been in my scope of trying to direct this to focus on Zope
the technology, not a specific zope version.

> >3. On those drop-down menus, lose the constant prefix "Zope". For
> >example, under "Business", we don't need "Zope Training", just
> >"Training".
Drop down menus are placeholders - there is actually structre in svn we
are going to be using on the live site.
> >
> >4. Re the copyright at the bottom - shouldn't that be Zope Foundation instead?\
There is no Zope Foundation yet. Suppose it likely should be when it is
formed.
> >
> >5. I like the drop-down menus, although they won't print.
Do we care? Can this be handled in css?
> >

Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

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tom at modscape

Mar 20, 2006, 9:21 AM

Post #12 of 22 (7236 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

About printing. The CSS for printable pages has not been added yet. The
pages will be printer freindly (inluding menus).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Sawyers" <andrew [at] sawdog>
To: "Brad Allen" <brad [at] allendev>
Cc: <zope-web [at] zope>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Version 3


>
>> >---
>> >I have bigger questions though.
>> >
>> >1. Does the page print well?
> Dunno, a print css would solve this easily.
>> >
>> >2. Is the site to represent -both- Zope2 and Zope3, or just Zope3?
>> >Wit mentions of Plone, CMF and Zope Products on the drop-down menus,
>> >it seems to be targeted at Zope2.
> It has always been in my scope of trying to direct this to focus on Zope
> the technology, not a specific zope version.
>
>> >3. On those drop-down menus, lose the constant prefix "Zope". For
>> >example, under "Business", we don't need "Zope Training", just
>> >"Training".
> Drop down menus are placeholders - there is actually structre in svn we
> are going to be using on the live site.
>> >
>> >4. Re the copyright at the bottom - shouldn't that be Zope Foundation
>> >instead?\
> There is no Zope Foundation yet. Suppose it likely should be when it is
> formed.
>> >
>> >5. I like the drop-down menus, although they won't print.
> Do we care? Can this be handled in css?
>> >
>
> Andrew
>> _______________________________________________
>> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
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chris at simplistix

Mar 20, 2006, 10:35 AM

Post #13 of 22 (7218 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
> 'managing' the site: manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
> additional skin which includes these macros. Just an idea.

How would normal users go about submitting news and product releases?

Where would they upload the files?

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

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michael at d2m

Mar 20, 2006, 2:58 PM

Post #14 of 22 (7277 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Chris Withers wrote:
> Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>> Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
>> 'managing' the site: manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
>> additional skin which includes these macros. Just an idea.
>
> How would normal users go about submitting news and product releases?
>
> Where would they upload the files?
>

Its been a misunderstanding. There are normal users and product releases
in current zope.org, but that might change in the future 'zopeweb' and
thats what Andrew was talking about in his reply.

Maybe we need to label the zope.org vision we refer to in future posts.

Michael

--
http://zope.org/Members/d2m
http://planetzope.org

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chris at simplistix

Mar 20, 2006, 11:48 PM

Post #15 of 22 (7278 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
> Chris Withers wrote:
> > Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> >> Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
> >> 'managing' the site: manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
> >> additional skin which includes these macros. Just an idea.
> >
> > How would normal users go about submitting news and product releases?
> >
> > Where would they upload the files?
> >
>
> Its been a misunderstanding. There are normal users and product releases
> in current zope.org, but that might change in the future 'zopeweb' and
> thats what Andrew was talking about in his reply.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that. But release space for software and
addition of news is about all zope.org is currently used for. I think
this is an important use case to cater for in the future...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
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jens at dataflake

Mar 21, 2006, 2:11 AM

Post #16 of 22 (7226 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 21 Mar 2006, at 07:48, Chris Withers wrote:
> Yeah, I'm well aware of that. But release space for software and
> addition of news is about all zope.org is currently used for. I
> think this is an important use case to cater for in the future...

*bzz* DENIED

This might be an important use case, but it is out of the scope for
the new zope.org setup. The new setup is specifically targeted at not
being a free-for-all community playground anymore.

One of the reasons why the old site is getting worse every day is
loads of outdated and sometimes plain bad documents and products that
no one cares for anymore.

jens

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chris at simplistix

Mar 21, 2006, 2:13 AM

Post #17 of 22 (7244 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> This might be an important use case, but it is out of the scope for the
> new zope.org setup. The new setup is specifically targeted at not being
> a free-for-all community playground anymore.
>
> One of the reasons why the old site is getting worse every day is loads
> of outdated and sometimes plain bad documents and products that no one
> cares for anymore.

So how are people supposed to publish news items?

Where are they supposed to release software?

How are people coming to Zope supposed to find products they want to use?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for limiting scope a lot, but if we're not
catering for these basic needs, then what's the point of having the site
at all?

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


jens at dataflake

Mar 21, 2006, 2:14 AM

Post #18 of 22 (7282 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 21 Mar 2006, at 10:13, Chris Withers wrote:

> Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
>> This might be an important use case, but it is out of the scope
>> for the new zope.org setup. The new setup is specifically targeted
>> at not being a free-for-all community playground anymore.
>> One of the reasons why the old site is getting worse every day is
>> loads of outdated and sometimes plain bad documents and products
>> that no one cares for anymore.
>
> So how are people supposed to publish news items?
>
> Where are they supposed to release software?
>
> How are people coming to Zope supposed to find products they want
> to use?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm all for limiting scope a lot, but if we're
> not catering for these basic needs, then what's the point of having
> the site at all?

Instead of re-hashing stuff for the umpteenth time, please check in
the list archives. These discussions were held several times now.

jens

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_______________________________________________
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regebro at gmail

Mar 21, 2006, 2:25 AM

Post #19 of 22 (7191 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

On 3/21/06, Jens Vagelpohl <jens [at] dataflake> wrote:
> Instead of re-hashing stuff for the umpteenth time, please check in
> the list archives. These discussions were held several times now.

Dont discuss it. Just link to the conclusion. ;-)

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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jens at dataflake

Mar 21, 2006, 2:34 AM

Post #20 of 22 (7245 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 21 Mar 2006, at 10:25, Lennart Regebro wrote:

> On 3/21/06, Jens Vagelpohl <jens [at] dataflake> wrote:
>> Instead of re-hashing stuff for the umpteenth time, please check in
>> the list archives. These discussions were held several times now.
>
> Dont discuss it. Just link to the conclusion. ;-)

That means I would have to go search for it. I know Chris is capable
of doing that himself :P

jens

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chris at simplistix

Mar 21, 2006, 2:53 AM

Post #21 of 22 (7197 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
>
> That means I would have to go search for it. I know Chris is capable of
> doing that himself :P

Funny, I read those discussions and I don't remember any kind of agreed
conclusion...

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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faassen at infrae

Mar 21, 2006, 9:11 AM

Post #22 of 22 (7250 views)
Permalink
Re: Version 3 [In reply to]

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>
> http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3
>
> Updated. Pretty much ready to roll. Please send along any comments.

Wow, great work! Looks nice. I agree with Brad Allen's comments about
Zope needing to project a bit of seriousness, and this is serious with
still enough color.

I'm a text-oriented guy so I'm really am waiting for the catchy text in
the middle. I hope we can get this integrated for another mockup, also
concerning subpages.

Regards,

Martijn
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