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pete-lists at bcmpweb

Feb 16, 2006, 12:58 PM

Post #1 of 25 (7963 views)
Permalink
Zope 3 Website

Hi All,

I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so you
may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have seen. I
have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about setting up
a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.

I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
(jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think they
sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer some
funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000 NZD
(about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.

I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get over
to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able to help
with this when it gets up and running.

I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a site
http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for projects similar
to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a good place to do this
kinda thing.

Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
into place and get this thing going?

Cheers,
Pete

As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
answers the following questions:

1) What is Zope 3?
2) Why use Zope 3?
3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
4) How do I get started?

Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on worldcookery.
However, I would also love to see a section on the lead developers
answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...

Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so forth.
This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.

And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)

Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
way to do this,

As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
hand in hand with development.

Joel


_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


andrew at sawdog

Feb 16, 2006, 1:46 PM

Post #2 of 25 (7850 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

That's excellent Peter! I don't want any money, but would be cool to
find the best use for it....
Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
funds: hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
their site.

I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
established.

Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.

Andrew Sawyers


On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so you
> may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have seen. I
> have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about setting up
> a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
>
> I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
> (jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think they
> sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer some
> funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000 NZD
> (about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
>
> I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get over
> to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able to help
> with this when it gets up and running.
>
> I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a site
> http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for projects similar
> to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a good place to do this
> kinda thing.
>
> Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
> into place and get this thing going?
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
> As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
> coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
> answers the following questions:
>
> 1) What is Zope 3?
> 2) Why use Zope 3?
> 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
> 4) How do I get started?
>
> Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
> two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on worldcookery.
> However, I would also love to see a section on the lead developers
> answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
>
> Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
> colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
> platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
> coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
> of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so forth.
> This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
>
> And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
> quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
> corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
> and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
> raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
> to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)
>
> Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
> of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
> Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
> way to do this,
>
> As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
> online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
> not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
> think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
> hand in hand with development.
>
> Joel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


pete-lists at bcmpweb

Feb 16, 2006, 2:04 PM

Post #3 of 25 (7851 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Hi Andrew,

Cheers. That does sound like a good idea I have been wondering about
creating more content for our site and might do that also :-) Thanks to
Christian T also for the idea in the first place.

Do you help keep zope.org up to date? (forgive my ignorance in this area)

I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3. I truly do
believe that with a little effort we can make the entry point much
better. I know from experience that have the plone.org site (the front
page and demos are the main contribution really) it helps people
understand what they are getting into when they start using plone. I
think we could do the same for Zope 3.

The items

1) What is Zope 3?
2) Why use Zope 3?
3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
4) How do I get started?

Cover it I think. I am pretty keen to keep the aim/goal fairly simple to begin with to ensure we get something up and running. Then I believe we need to keep reinvesting to keep current with what is going on just on these basic items. We should really only expand if these are completely up to date and we have spare resource.

Cheers,
Pete

Andrew Sawyers wrote:

>That's excellent Peter! I don't want any money, but would be cool to
>find the best use for it....
>Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
>he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
>funds: hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
>bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
>their site.
>
>I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
>and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
>established.
>
>Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.
>
>Andrew Sawyers
>
>
>On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
>
>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so you
>>may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have seen. I
>>have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about setting up
>>a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
>>
>>I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
>>(jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think they
>>sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer some
>>funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000 NZD
>>(about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
>>
>>I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get over
>>to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able to help
>>with this when it gets up and running.
>>
>>I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a site
>>http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for projects similar
>>to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a good place to do this
>>kinda thing.
>>
>>Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
>>into place and get this thing going?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Pete
>>
>>As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
>>coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
>>answers the following questions:
>>
>>1) What is Zope 3?
>>2) Why use Zope 3?
>>3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
>>4) How do I get started?
>>
>>Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
>>two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on worldcookery.
>>However, I would also love to see a section on the lead developers
>>answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
>>
>>Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
>>colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
>>platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
>>coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
>>of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so forth.
>> This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
>>
>>And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
>>quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
>>corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
>>and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
>>raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
>>to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)
>>
>>Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
>>of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
>>Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
>>way to do this,
>>
>>As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
>>online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
>>not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
>>think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
>>hand in hand with development.
>>
>>Joel
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>>
>>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


pete-lists at bcmpweb

Feb 16, 2006, 2:23 PM

Post #4 of 25 (7800 views)
Permalink
Re: [ZF] Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Re-reading my email I kinda put the emphasis in the wrong area. If we
need more design then I would like to get it right of couse the existing
isn't too bad so maybe we don't need it so much just a little bit for
differiantion purposes.

The main thing is the content. I would be keen to do some
demos/simulations as well as getting together the existing howtos and
making sure they are up to date.

The 4 items sum it up and the content behind those is the main thing.

Cheers,
Pete

Peter Simmons wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> Cheers. That does sound like a good idea I have been wondering about
> creating more content for our site and might do that also :-) Thanks
> to Christian T also for the idea in the first place.
>
> Do you help keep zope.org up to date? (forgive my ignorance in this area)
>
> I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
> colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3. I truly do
> believe that with a little effort we can make the entry point much
> better. I know from experience that have the plone.org site (the front
> page and demos are the main contribution really) it helps people
> understand what they are getting into when they start using plone. I
> think we could do the same for Zope 3.
>
> The items
>
> 1) What is Zope 3?
> 2) Why use Zope 3?
> 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
> 4) How do I get started?
>
> Cover it I think. I am pretty keen to keep the aim/goal fairly simple
> to begin with to ensure we get something up and running. Then I
> believe we need to keep reinvesting to keep current with what is going
> on just on these basic items. We should really only expand if these
> are completely up to date and we have spare resource.
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
> Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>
>> That's excellent Peter! I don't want any money, but would be cool to
>> find the best use for it....
>> Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
>> he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
>> funds: hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
>> bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
>> their site.
>> I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
>> and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
>> established.
>> Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.
>>
>> Andrew Sawyers
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so
>>> you may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have
>>> seen. I have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about
>>> setting up a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
>>>
>>> I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
>>> (jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think
>>> they sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer
>>> some funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000
>>> NZD (about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
>>>
>>> I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get
>>> over to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able
>>> to help with this when it gets up and running.
>>>
>>> I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a
>>> site http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for
>>> projects similar to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a
>>> good place to do this kinda thing.
>>>
>>> Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
>>> into place and get this thing going?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
>>> coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
>>> answers the following questions:
>>>
>>> 1) What is Zope 3?
>>> 2) Why use Zope 3?
>>> 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
>>> 4) How do I get started?
>>>
>>> Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
>>> two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on
>>> worldcookery. However, I would also love to see a section on the
>>> lead developers
>>> answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
>>>
>>> Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
>>> colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
>>> platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
>>> coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
>>> of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so
>>> forth.
>>> This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
>>>
>>> And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
>>> quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
>>> corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
>>> and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
>>> raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
>>> to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)
>>> Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
>>> of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
>>> Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
>>> way to do this,
>>>
>>> As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
>>> online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
>>> not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
>>> think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
>>> hand in hand with development.
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Foundation mailing list
> Foundation [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


jfmoxley at gmail

Feb 16, 2006, 4:49 PM

Post #5 of 25 (7797 views)
Permalink
Re: [ZF] Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Pete and all,

Like you, I'm fairly new to the Zope3 marketing and website issues --
and relatively new to Zope/Zope3 as well. I was actually unaware of
the zope-web list until that "Guido" thread.

In any event, I agree with you -- the initial and central need is an
intelligent, clear organization of existing content in a single place.

I've followed the discussion on both lists, and my questions are these:

I've seen the zope-web svn text (which is a great start). What's the
plan forward, and when does the zope-web community expect to have
working model? Is there a timeline? Where can a non-expert
individual like myself make a contribution?

I feel as though initially the mere existence of a central Zope3
brochure-type "jumping off" website would be hugely valuable even if
not completely perfected. I'm unclear on whether this is too specific
for zope-web's larger purpose. If it is something zope-web wants to
do, is it something that we would expect in a few months or perhaps
year?

Anyways, I'm excited that so many of us share the enthusiasm for
marketing Zope and Zope3.

Joel

On 2/16/06, Peter Simmons <pete-lists [at] bcmpweb> wrote:
> Re-reading my email I kinda put the emphasis in the wrong area. If we
> need more design then I would like to get it right of couse the existing
> isn't too bad so maybe we don't need it so much just a little bit for
> differiantion purposes.
>
> The main thing is the content. I would be keen to do some
> demos/simulations as well as getting together the existing howtos and
> making sure they are up to date.
>
> The 4 items sum it up and the content behind those is the main thing.
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
> Peter Simmons wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > Cheers. That does sound like a good idea I have been wondering about
> > creating more content for our site and might do that also :-) Thanks
> > to Christian T also for the idea in the first place.
> >
> > Do you help keep zope.org up to date? (forgive my ignorance in this area)
> >
> > I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
> > colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3. I truly do
> > believe that with a little effort we can make the entry point much
> > better. I know from experience that have the plone.org site (the front
> > page and demos are the main contribution really) it helps people
> > understand what they are getting into when they start using plone. I
> > think we could do the same for Zope 3.
> >
> > The items
> >
> > 1) What is Zope 3?
> > 2) Why use Zope 3?
> > 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
> > 4) How do I get started?
> >
> > Cover it I think. I am pretty keen to keep the aim/goal fairly simple
> > to begin with to ensure we get something up and running. Then I
> > believe we need to keep reinvesting to keep current with what is going
> > on just on these basic items. We should really only expand if these
> > are completely up to date and we have spare resource.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Pete
> >
> > Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> >
> >> That's excellent Peter! I don't want any money, but would be cool to
> >> find the best use for it....
> >> Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
> >> he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
> >> funds: hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
> >> bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
> >> their site.
> >> I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
> >> and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
> >> established.
> >> Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.
> >>
> >> Andrew Sawyers
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so
> >>> you may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have
> >>> seen. I have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about
> >>> setting up a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
> >>>
> >>> I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
> >>> (jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think
> >>> they sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer
> >>> some funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000
> >>> NZD (about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get
> >>> over to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able
> >>> to help with this when it gets up and running.
> >>>
> >>> I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a
> >>> site http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for
> >>> projects similar to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a
> >>> good place to do this kinda thing.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
> >>> into place and get this thing going?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Pete
> >>>
> >>> As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
> >>> coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
> >>> answers the following questions:
> >>>
> >>> 1) What is Zope 3?
> >>> 2) Why use Zope 3?
> >>> 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
> >>> 4) How do I get started?
> >>>
> >>> Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
> >>> two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on
> >>> worldcookery. However, I would also love to see a section on the
> >>> lead developers
> >>> answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
> >>>
> >>> Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
> >>> colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
> >>> platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
> >>> coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
> >>> of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so
> >>> forth.
> >>> This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
> >>>
> >>> And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
> >>> quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
> >>> corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
> >>> and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
> >>> raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
> >>> to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)
> >>> Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
> >>> of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
> >>> Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
> >>> way to do this,
> >>>
> >>> As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
> >>> online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
> >>> not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
> >>> think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
> >>> hand in hand with development.
> >>>
> >>> Joel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> >>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foundation mailing list
> > Foundation [at] zope
> > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
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pete-lists at bcmpweb

Feb 16, 2006, 5:20 PM

Post #6 of 25 (7852 views)
Permalink
Re: [ZF] Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Hi Joel,

I agree exactly.

Basically I am just trying to work out how to do it without stepping on
any toes and fit in with whatever plans there are. But so far I haven't
found out anything. So if anyone can help in that area (even if to say
there isn't anything) that would be really helpful.

Cheers,
Pete

Joel Moxley wrote:

>Pete and all,
>
>Like you, I'm fairly new to the Zope3 marketing and website issues --
>and relatively new to Zope/Zope3 as well. I was actually unaware of
>the zope-web list until that "Guido" thread.
>
>In any event, I agree with you -- the initial and central need is an
>intelligent, clear organization of existing content in a single place.
>
>I've followed the discussion on both lists, and my questions are these:
>
>I've seen the zope-web svn text (which is a great start). What's the
>plan forward, and when does the zope-web community expect to have
>working model? Is there a timeline? Where can a non-expert
>individual like myself make a contribution?
>
>I feel as though initially the mere existence of a central Zope3
>brochure-type "jumping off" website would be hugely valuable even if
>not completely perfected. I'm unclear on whether this is too specific
>for zope-web's larger purpose. If it is something zope-web wants to
>do, is it something that we would expect in a few months or perhaps
>year?
>
>Anyways, I'm excited that so many of us share the enthusiasm for
>marketing Zope and Zope3.
>
>Joel
>
>On 2/16/06, Peter Simmons <pete-lists [at] bcmpweb> wrote:
>
>
>>Re-reading my email I kinda put the emphasis in the wrong area. If we
>>need more design then I would like to get it right of couse the existing
>>isn't too bad so maybe we don't need it so much just a little bit for
>>differiantion purposes.
>>
>>The main thing is the content. I would be keen to do some
>>demos/simulations as well as getting together the existing howtos and
>>making sure they are up to date.
>>
>>The 4 items sum it up and the content behind those is the main thing.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Pete
>>
>>Peter Simmons wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>>Cheers. That does sound like a good idea I have been wondering about
>>>creating more content for our site and might do that also :-) Thanks
>>>to Christian T also for the idea in the first place.
>>>
>>>Do you help keep zope.org up to date? (forgive my ignorance in this area)
>>>
>>>I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
>>>colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3. I truly do
>>>believe that with a little effort we can make the entry point much
>>>better. I know from experience that have the plone.org site (the front
>>>page and demos are the main contribution really) it helps people
>>>understand what they are getting into when they start using plone. I
>>>think we could do the same for Zope 3.
>>>
>>>The items
>>>
>>>1) What is Zope 3?
>>>2) Why use Zope 3?
>>>3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
>>>4) How do I get started?
>>>
>>>Cover it I think. I am pretty keen to keep the aim/goal fairly simple
>>>to begin with to ensure we get something up and running. Then I
>>>believe we need to keep reinvesting to keep current with what is going
>>>on just on these basic items. We should really only expand if these
>>>are completely up to date and we have spare resource.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Pete
>>>
>>>Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>That's excellent Peter! I don't want any money, but would be cool to
>>>>find the best use for it....
>>>>Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
>>>>he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
>>>>funds: hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
>>>>bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
>>>>their site.
>>>>I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
>>>>and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
>>>>established.
>>>>Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.
>>>>
>>>>Andrew Sawyers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>>I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so
>>>>>you may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have
>>>>>seen. I have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about
>>>>>setting up a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
>>>>>
>>>>>I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
>>>>>(jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think
>>>>>they sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer
>>>>>some funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000
>>>>>NZD (about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get
>>>>>over to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able
>>>>>to help with this when it gets up and running.
>>>>>
>>>>>I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a
>>>>>site http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for
>>>>>projects similar to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a
>>>>>good place to do this kinda thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
>>>>>into place and get this thing going?
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>Pete
>>>>>
>>>>>As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
>>>>>coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
>>>>>answers the following questions:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) What is Zope 3?
>>>>>2) Why use Zope 3?
>>>>>3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
>>>>>4) How do I get started?
>>>>>
>>>>>Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
>>>>>two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on
>>>>>worldcookery. However, I would also love to see a section on the
>>>>>lead developers
>>>>>answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
>>>>>
>>>>>Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
>>>>>colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
>>>>>platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
>>>>>coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
>>>>>of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so
>>>>>forth.
>>>>>This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
>>>>>
>>>>>And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
>>>>>quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
>>>>>corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
>>>>>and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
>>>>>raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
>>>>>to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)
>>>>>Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
>>>>>of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
>>>>>Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
>>>>>way to do this,
>>>>>
>>>>>As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
>>>>>online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
>>>>>not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
>>>>>think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
>>>>>hand in hand with development.
>>>>>
>>>>>Joel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>>>>>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Foundation mailing list
>>>Foundation [at] zope
>>>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>>
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


andrew at sawdog

Feb 17, 2006, 6:14 AM

Post #7 of 25 (7775 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 11:04 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Cheers. That does sound like a good idea I have been wondering about
> creating more content for our site and might do that also :-) Thanks to
> Christian T also for the idea in the first place.
I just let him know. :)
>
> Do you help keep zope.org up to date? (forgive my ignorance in this area)
I have done lots in the past - mostly hardware wise; and have been
trying to get a redefined new site we can be proud of for some time now.
A few others have stepped up and we're working together to get something
done. So, I'm a participant, yes.
>
> I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
> colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3.
We have some of this expertise at our disposal. Tom V. (who's on this
list IIRC) has done some nice initial design work. I think the last
thread with him was to reduce the front page navigation - which he had
noted he was going to take a stab at.

> I truly do
> believe that with a little effort we can make the entry point much
> better. I know from experience that have the plone.org site (the front
> page and demos are the main contribution really) it helps people
> understand what they are getting into when they start using plone. I
> think we could do the same for Zope 3.
>
> The items
>
> 1) What is Zope 3?
> 2) Why use Zope 3?
> 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
> 4) How do I get started?
>
> Cover it I think. I am pretty keen to keep the aim/goal fairly simple to begin with to ensure we get something up and running. Then I believe we need to keep reinvesting to keep current with what is going on just on these basic items. We should really only expand if these are completely up to date and we have spare resource.
>
I can't agree more. That's been my main thrust for some time. I just
got access to Phillip's SVN repo yesterday, so I was going to add some
to the documents I had reviewed on D2M's site.

Thanks Again!

Andrew Sawyers
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
> Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>
> >That's excellent Peter! I don't want any money, but would be cool to
> >find the best use for it....
> >Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
> >he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
> >funds: hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
> >bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
> >their site.
> >
> >I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
> >and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
> >established.
> >
> >Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.
> >
> >Andrew Sawyers
> >
> >
> >On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hi All,
> >>
> >>I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so you
> >>may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have seen. I
> >>have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about setting up
> >>a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
> >>
> >>I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
> >>(jfmoxley [at] gmail) as pasted at the end in particular as I think they
> >>sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer some
> >>funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000 NZD
> >>(about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
> >>
> >>I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get over
> >>to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able to help
> >>with this when it gets up and running.
> >>
> >>I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a site
> >>http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for projects similar
> >>to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a good place to do this
> >>kinda thing.
> >>
> >>Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
> >>into place and get this thing going?
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Pete
> >>
> >>As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
> >>coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that
> >>answers the following questions:
> >>
> >>1) What is Zope 3?
> >>2) Why use Zope 3?
> >>3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
> >>4) How do I get started?
> >>
> >>Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
> >>two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on worldcookery.
> >>However, I would also love to see a section on the lead developers
> >>answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
> >>
> >>Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel
> >>colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
> >>platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was
> >>coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
> >>of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :) . And so forth.
> >> This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
> >>
> >>And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
> >>quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
> >>corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
> >>and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
> >>raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want
> >>to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :)
> >>
> >>Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead
> >>of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
> >>Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
> >>way to do this,
> >>
> >>As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
> >>online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and
> >>not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I
> >>think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
> >>hand in hand with development.
> >>
> >>Joel
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> >>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


tom at modscape

Feb 17, 2006, 5:01 PM

Post #8 of 25 (7787 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Based on some of the comments, I'm actually working on a brand new
layout. I'm trying to really simplify and organize things and give
the site a more "marketable" look and feel... without losing
functionality. I should have some new stuff posted this weekend.

On Feb 17, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Andrew Sawyers wrote:

>> I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
>> colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3.
> We have some of this expertise at our disposal. Tom V. (who's on this
> list IIRC) has done some nice initial design work. I think the last
> thread with him was to reduce the front page navigation - which he had
> noted he was going to take a stab at.

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


tom at modscape

Feb 23, 2006, 6:08 PM

Post #9 of 25 (7761 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy
nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I go
along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else
anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but will
try to keep pace on this.
http://modscape.com/zope

On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:01 PM, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

>
> Based on some of the comments, I'm actually working on a brand new
> layout. I'm trying to really simplify and organize things and give
> the site a more "marketable" look and feel... without losing
> functionality. I should have some new stuff posted this weekend.
>
> On Feb 17, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>
>>> I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
>>> colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3.
>> We have some of this expertise at our disposal. Tom V. (who's on
>> this
>> list IIRC) has done some nice initial design work. I think the last
>> thread with him was to reduce the front page navigation - which he
>> had
>> noted he was going to take a stab at.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


simon at joyful

Feb 24, 2006, 3:22 PM

Post #10 of 25 (7745 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Hi Tom, thanks for working on this. I took a quick look, looks great.
Two issues: the fonts are too small (cf our competition's sites), and
the download menu appears behind everything else in firefox 1.5 on
gnu/linux.

Thanks again! Very nice.

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


jens at dataflake

Feb 25, 2006, 2:32 PM

Post #11 of 25 (7751 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

On 24 Feb 2006, at 03:08, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy
> nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I
> go along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else
> anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but
> will try to keep pace on this.
> http://modscape.com/zope

Thanks Tom, this is wonderful work :) I'm conservative, I actually
prefer version 1. I don't think it would be hard to whittle down that
left navigation to something that fits above the fold in its
entirety. I find the menu across the top problematic in version 2.
The font (at least in Firefox on OS X) is not distinguished in size
or looks over the standard text font, and the dropdown menus render
really badly.

jens

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


tom at modscape

Feb 25, 2006, 4:12 PM

Post #12 of 25 (7725 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Thanks for the feedback Jens. Good to hear from you! :) Actually, I
may have made a mistake by posting the mockups early. I'm actually
right in the middle of working on the navs, I'm aware of both issues
and working on them offline. Just wanted to let everyone know, but
please don't hesitate to send comments. Thanks.

On Feb 25, 2006, at 5:32 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:

>
> On 24 Feb 2006, at 03:08, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the
>> buggy nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages
>> as I go along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever
>> else anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now,
>> but will try to keep pace on this.
>> http://modscape.com/zope
>
> Thanks Tom, this is wonderful work :) I'm conservative, I actually
> prefer version 1. I don't think it would be hard to whittle down
> that left navigation to something that fits above the fold in its
> entirety. I find the menu across the top problematic in version 2.
> The font (at least in Firefox on OS X) is not distinguished in size
> or looks over the standard text font, and the dropdown menus render
> really badly.
>
> jens
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


regebro at gmail

Feb 26, 2006, 12:50 AM

Post #13 of 25 (7735 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

On 2/24/06, Tom Von Lahndorff <tom [at] modscape> wrote:
> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy
> nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I go
> along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else
> anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but will
> try to keep pace on this.
> http://modscape.com/zope

Very nice, big friendly icons! I like it.

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


andrew at sawdog

Feb 27, 2006, 6:32 AM

Post #14 of 25 (7746 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Great job Tom.
I like the layout (minus what's in the content well) - but that's a nit.
I think we have to expect more for 'marketing' then one might otherwise
(note to Jens) :)

Keep up the excellent work!
Andrew
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 21:08 -0500, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy
> nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I go
> along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else
> anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but will
> try to keep pace on this.
> http://modscape.com/zope
>
> On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:01 PM, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

>
> >
> > Based on some of the comments, I'm actually working on a brand new
> > layout. I'm trying to really simplify and organize things and give
> > the site a more "marketable" look and feel... without losing
> > functionality. I should have some new stuff posted this weekend.
> >
> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> >
> >>> I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
> >>> colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3.
> >> We have some of this expertise at our disposal. Tom V. (who's on
> >> this
> >> list IIRC) has done some nice initial design work. I think the last
> >> thread with him was to reduce the front page navigation - which he
> >> had
> >> noted he was going to take a stab at.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


chris at simplistix

Mar 3, 2006, 3:10 AM

Post #15 of 25 (7710 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>
> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy nav.
> Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I go along.
> I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else anyone can
> think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but will try to keep
> pace on this.
> http://modscape.com/zope

Having finally remembered to look at this while I'm online, I really
like it :-)
(much more than v1, in fact!)

The rollovers don't work right ofr me in firefox though: no content
shows in them and funny formatting...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


andrew at sawdog

Mar 3, 2006, 12:18 PM

Post #16 of 25 (7682 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

He noted he's aware of that and working on it. Talking to him
yesterday, he thought he could have something done that we can start
using by Monday.

Andrew Sawyers
On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 11:10 +0000, Chris Withers wrote:
> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
> >
> > Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy nav.
> > Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I go along.
> > I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else anyone can
> > think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but will try to keep
> > pace on this.
> > http://modscape.com/zope
>
> Having finally remembered to look at this while I'm online, I really
> like it :-)
> (much more than v1, in fact!)
>
> The rollovers don't work right ofr me in firefox though: no content
> shows in them and funny formatting...
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris
>

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


pete-lists at bcmpweb

Mar 7, 2006, 12:29 PM

Post #17 of 25 (7672 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Hi All,

I had a look at the latest from Tom also and like it too. I am not sure
about having the content that is in the content area as the very first
thing newbies will see. Is the idea that this is the stuff that changes
the most and so will draw people back or is it just filler content at
this stage?

I think if we just had a clear statement of intent, something punchy
like Looking for an enterprise web framework? You've found the right place.

Other statements which I think fit might be 'A web framework built by
developers for developers so that they can deliver.'

Or something like that.

Cheers,
Pete

Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> He noted he's aware of that and working on it. Talking to him
> yesterday, he thought he could have something done that we can start
> using by Monday.
>
> Andrew Sawyers
> On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 11:10 +0000, Chris Withers wrote:
>
>> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>>
>>> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the buggy nav.
>>> Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages as I go along.
>>> I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever else anyone can
>>> think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now, but will try to keep
>>> pace on this.
>>> http://modscape.com/zope
>>>
>> Having finally remembered to look at this while I'm online, I really
>> like it :-)
>> (much more than v1, in fact!)
>>
>> The rollovers don't work right ofr me in firefox though: no content
>> shows in them and funny formatting...
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>
>
_______________________________________________
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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


tom at modscape

Mar 7, 2006, 12:38 PM

Post #18 of 25 (7687 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

"Is the idea that this is the stuff that changes the most and so will
draw people back or is it just filler content at this stage?"

Mostly filler. I agree with what you say. I'm thinking some of the
testimonials would be good and I'm planning on mocking that up. I
also think Andrew S. said he's looking into getting some good
introductory text as well.

-----------------------------
tom [at] modscape
www.modscape.com
-----------------------------


On Mar 7, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Peter Simmons wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I had a look at the latest from Tom also and like it too. I am not
> sure about having the content that is in the content area as the
> very first thing newbies will see. Is the idea that this is the
> stuff that changes the most and so will draw people back or is it
> just filler content at this stage?
>
> I think if we just had a clear statement of intent, something
> punchy like Looking for an enterprise web framework? You've found
> the right place.
>
> Other statements which I think fit might be 'A web framework built
> by developers for developers so that they can deliver.'
>
> Or something like that.
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
> Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>> He noted he's aware of that and working on it. Talking to him
>> yesterday, he thought he could have something done that we can start
>> using by Monday.
>>
>> Andrew Sawyers
>> On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 11:10 +0000, Chris Withers wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the
>>>> buggy nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more
>>>> pages as I go along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and
>>>> whatever else anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work
>>>> right now, but will try to keep pace on this.
>>>> http://modscape.com/zope
>>>>
>>> Having finally remembered to look at this while I'm online, I
>>> really like it :-)
>>> (much more than v1, in fact!)
>>>
>>> The rollovers don't work right ofr me in firefox though: no
>>> content shows in them and funny formatting...
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


pete-lists at bcmpweb

Mar 7, 2006, 12:48 PM

Post #19 of 25 (7669 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Thanks Tom I figured as much but always good to be sure.

Cheers,
Pete

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
> "Is the idea that this is the stuff that changes the most and so will
> draw people back or is it just filler content at this stage?"
>
> Mostly filler. I agree with what you say. I'm thinking some of the
> testimonials would be good and I'm planning on mocking that up. I also
> think Andrew S. said he's looking into getting some good introductory
> text as well.
>
> -----------------------------
> tom [at] modscape
> www.modscape.com
> -----------------------------
>
>
> On Mar 7, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Peter Simmons wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I had a look at the latest from Tom also and like it too. I am not
>> sure about having the content that is in the content area as the very
>> first thing newbies will see. Is the idea that this is the stuff that
>> changes the most and so will draw people back or is it just filler
>> content at this stage?
>>
>> I think if we just had a clear statement of intent, something punchy
>> like Looking for an enterprise web framework? You've found the right
>> place.
>>
>> Other statements which I think fit might be 'A web framework built by
>> developers for developers so that they can deliver.'
>>
>> Or something like that.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pete
>>
>> Andrew Sawyers wrote:
>>> He noted he's aware of that and working on it. Talking to him
>>> yesterday, he thought he could have something done that we can start
>>> using by Monday.
>>>
>>> Andrew Sawyers
>>> On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 11:10 +0000, Chris Withers wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Version 2 is linked below. Its a work in progress, namely the
>>>>> buggy nav. Any comments are appreciated. I'll be adding more pages
>>>>> as I go along. I'm also open to providing a Media Kit and whatever
>>>>> else anyone can think of. I'm a little slammed at work right now,
>>>>> but will try to keep pace on this.
>>>>> http://modscape.com/zope
>>>>>
>>>> Having finally remembered to look at this while I'm online, I
>>>> really like it :-)
>>>> (much more than v1, in fact!)
>>>>
>>>> The rollovers don't work right ofr me in firefox though: no content
>>>> shows in them and funny formatting...
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>
>
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


chris at simplistix

Mar 8, 2006, 1:40 AM

Post #20 of 25 (7595 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
> "Is the idea that this is the stuff that changes the most and so will
> draw people back or is it just filler content at this stage?"
>
> Mostly filler. I agree with what you say. I'm thinking some of the
> testimonials would be good and I'm planning on mocking that up. I also
> think Andrew S. said he's looking into getting some good introductory
> text as well.

Honestly, I'd prefer the front page to be less
testimonials/marketing/etc and more content that the rest of us with
find useful, which seemed to be what your v3 had, bar the testimonial at
the top.

I think Zope would be much more appealing for newcomers if they could
see it was vibrant and focussed rather than trying to "sell" itself...

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


regebro at gmail

Mar 8, 2006, 4:03 AM

Post #21 of 25 (7594 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

On 3/8/06, Chris Withers <chris [at] simplistix> wrote:
> I think Zope would be much more appealing for newcomers if they could
> see it was vibrant and focussed rather than trying to "sell" itself...

Although if you see on all other wibsites, it seems to actually work
the otehr way around. ;)

But of course, there can be an overload. One or two nice testimonials,
and then some news would be the right mix I think. No news is dead
news. :)
--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


tom at modscape

Mar 8, 2006, 4:11 AM

Post #22 of 25 (7586 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

"
> But of course, there can be an overload. One or two nice testimonials,
> and then some news would be the right mix I think."

I agree.

On Mar 8, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:

> On 3/8/06, Chris Withers <chris [at] simplistix> wrote:
>> I think Zope would be much more appealing for newcomers if they could
>> see it was vibrant and focussed rather than trying to "sell"
>> itself...
>
> Although if you see on all other wibsites, it seems to actually work
> the otehr way around. ;)
>
> But of course, there can be an overload. One or two nice testimonials,
> and then some news would be the right mix I think. No news is dead
> news. :)
> --
> Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
> CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


chris at simplistix

Mar 8, 2006, 11:56 PM

Post #23 of 25 (7508 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Lennart Regebro wrote:
> On 3/8/06, Chris Withers <chris [at] simplistix> wrote:
>> I think Zope would be much more appealing for newcomers if they could
>> see it was vibrant and focussed rather than trying to "sell" itself...
>
> Although if you see on all other wibsites, it seems to actually work
> the otehr way around. ;)

Hmm, not sure I agree...

> But of course, there can be an overload. One or two nice testimonials,
> and then some news would be the right mix I think.

Yep, I could live with that...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


chris at simplistix

Mar 9, 2006, 12:58 AM

Post #24 of 25 (7506 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Lennart Regebro wrote:
> Of course not, you are a total thinker, and not affected positively
> about people bragging. But most other people are. It's all about hype.

I'll take that as a compliment ;-)

Do we really want people that are attracted? How are they going to
benefit our community?

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


pete-lists at bcmpweb

Mar 11, 2006, 4:01 PM

Post #25 of 25 (7347 views)
Permalink
Re: Zope 3 Website [In reply to]

Those are the type of people that ideas but need us to implement them to
make them real. Those ideas and having them implemented means more work
for us in the community and that means more bright people in the community.

Just my experience.

Like the idea of balance also. What I was thinking wasn't really aimed
from a pure selling point of view more getting back to grass roots
websites though. The home page should provide a clear message about what
the site is all about. That means a clear message about what zope 3 is
all about.

The reason it should appeal to newcomers in particular is because they
are less likely to go further if then do not understand what the
benefits are. Anyone already in the community is likely to be able to
bookmark their ideal landing page whether it be news, new products,
mailing list archives or whatever they like to use to keep abreast.

There is a balance to be struck of course as we are not about hype but a
clear consistent, concise message goes a long way.

Think of it as a backing up of the community, when we try to convince
someone they should use zope we can point them at the site to find out
why we are so evangelistic about it.

Anyway sounds like you guys are all on the right track so don't take
this as a disagreement :-)

cheers,
Pete

Chris Withers wrote:
> Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> Of course not, you are a total thinker, and not affected positively
>> about people bragging. But most other people are. It's all about hype.
>
> I'll take that as a compliment ;-)
>
> Do we really want people that are attracted? How are they going to
> benefit our community?
>
> Chris
>
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web [at] zope
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

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