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ct at gocept

Jul 4, 2009, 4:33 AM

Post #1 of 27 (2431 views)
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List of packages in ZTK

Hi,

I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
defines which packages belong to the ZTK.

It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html

So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
way, then please speak up.

Christian

--
Christian Theune · ct [at] gocept
gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany
http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 7 · fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development

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tseaver at palladion

Jul 4, 2009, 10:31 AM

Post #2 of 27 (2363 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

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Christian Theune wrote:

> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>
> It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>
> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
> way, then please speak up.

Thanks for putting the list together! A couple of observations:

- - Jim asked us to remove 'zodbcode' and dependencies ('zope.app.module',
'zope.app.interface').

- - 'zope.decorator' doesn't belong at all: it is merely a BBB location
for stuff now in 'zope.security' / 'zope.proxy'.

- - I think that any package on the list which is not used (transitively)
by either Grok or Zope2 should be excluded, unless there is a
developer who will champion it.

o The packages required for Zope2 are listed here:
http://svn.zope.org/Zope/trunk/versions.cfg?view=markup
The 'zodbcode' and 'zope.app.interface' items there are not actually
needed, AFAICT.

o The Grok list is here:
http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/grok-1.0a4.cfg
I don't know whether Grok actually needs 'zodbcode' /
'zope.app.interface', either.

- - I think clustering the list into groups of related pacakges would be
helpful, as well. E.g.:

"Bicycle-seat Toolkit"
----------------------
zope.component
zope.configuration
zope.event
zope.i18nmessageid
zope.interface
zope.schema
zope.testing

"Zope Page Templates"
---------------------
zope.pagetemplate
zope.tal
zope.tales

"DTML / STX"
------------
zope.documenttemplate
zope.structuredtext

Proxy wrappers (require C extensions)
-------------------------------------
zope.deferredimport
zope.deprecation (actually, doesn't require zope.proxy)
zope.location
zope.proxy
zope.security

... and so forth.

- - Links to the dependency graphs for each toolkit package would be
helpful, too.

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver [at] palladion
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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srichter at cosmos

Jul 4, 2009, 4:55 PM

Post #3 of 27 (2352 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On Saturday 04 July 2009, Christian Theune wrote:
> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>
> It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>
> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
> way, then please speak up.

To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally meaningless
to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build even a
fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package in there.

Anyways, if the ZTK does not become more comprehensive, I will keep developing
the list that is now in zope.release (aka Zope 3.5.0dev).

Regards,
Stephan
--
Entrepreneur and Software Geek
Google me. "Zope Stephan Richter"
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chrism at plope

Jul 4, 2009, 5:41 PM

Post #4 of 27 (2361 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On 7/4/09 7:55 PM, Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Saturday 04 July 2009, Christian Theune wrote:
>> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
>> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
>> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>>
>> It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
>> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>>
>> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
>> way, then please speak up.
>
> To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally meaningless
> to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build even a
> fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package in there.

Maybe not surprisingly I have the opposite feeling. To me, it's already a
pretty large set of "definite" packages (~60), and a definitely large set of
"definite" + "under review" packages (~120). Are we going to be able to
maintain all that software over time? If we do, will we have time to do
anything else?

To put this comment in perspective, in our consulting engagements, we build
applications using "the bicycle repair kit" Tres mentioned somewhere in this
thread, plus a few others, totalling usually fewer than 30 packages. The very
largest application we've built with Z3-related packages (KARL, ~70K lines of
Python) depends on 67 packages which seems like a lot of packages to me. I
don't even maintain all of those though.

- C
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regebro at gmail

Jul 4, 2009, 10:06 PM

Post #5 of 27 (2348 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

2009/7/5 Stephan Richter <srichter [at] cosmos>:
> To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally meaningless
> to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build even a
> fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package in there.

As I understand it, ZTK is not meant to build applications on. It's
meant to build application servers on. ZTK is supposed to be tha base
on which we build things like Grok, Plone, and yes, Zope 3.

> Anyways, if the ZTK does not become more comprehensive, I will keep developing
> the list that is now in zope.release (aka Zope 3.5.0dev).

I sure hope you will!

--
Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
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tobias.rodaebel at mac

Jul 5, 2009, 2:14 AM

Post #6 of 27 (2361 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

Hi,

On 05.07.2009, at 07:06, Lennart Regebro wrote:

> 2009/7/5 Stephan Richter <srichter [at] cosmos>:
>> To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally
>> meaningless
>> to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build
>> even a
>> fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package
>> in there.
>
> As I understand it, ZTK is not meant to build applications on. It's
> meant to build application servers on. ZTK is supposed to be tha base
> on which we build things like Grok, Plone, and yes, Zope 3.

I'd like to mention repoze.bfg here. It takes a fairly small set of
zope.* packages. What the ZTK is will be finally defined by the
included packages. From a user's (developing with ZTK) perspective,
I'd appreciate a small good documented well tested and stable set of
tools to build web applications on regardless of which server or which
db I want to use. Christian's list represents that very well, IMHO I'd
kick a few packages I don't use at all. And where is zope.catalog? BTW
z3c.* packages in the ZTK would baffle me a lot, OTOH renaming z3c
packages just to fit into the ZTK seems a bit unorthodox.

Very important are the tools and best practices surrounding the ZTK.
Where do I start to get a state of the art but simple and inviting -
from a developer's perspective - web application?

Regards,
Tobias

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regebro at gmail

Jul 5, 2009, 4:21 AM

Post #7 of 27 (2350 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

2009/7/5 Tobias Rod�bel <tobias.rodaebel [at] mac>:
> I'd like to mention repoze.bfg here. It takes a fairly small set of
> zope.* packages.

Sure. Nothing says you have to use *all* ZTK packages either. It's a
collection of packages for building web frameworks. BFG is amazingly
minimalistic and will by itself only include a very small set of ZTK
packages, and I would be surprised if it ever included all the ZTK
packages. Maybe I stretch the word too much, but I would almost say
that BFG isn't dependent on ZTK, but just on the Zope Component
Architecture.

--
Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
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regebro at gmail

Jul 5, 2009, 4:22 AM

Post #8 of 27 (2350 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

2009/7/5 Lennart Regebro <regebro [at] gmail>:
> Maybe I stretch the word too much, but I would almost say
> that BFG isn't dependent on ZTK, but just on the Zope Component
> Architecture.

(Which of course doesn't the ZTK from being useful in writing BFG
apps. Just not REQUIRED.)
--
Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
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tseaver at palladion

Jul 5, 2009, 9:15 AM

Post #9 of 27 (2331 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

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Lennart Regebro wrote:

> 2009/7/5 Tobias Rod�bel <tobias.rodaebel [at] mac>:
>> I'd like to mention repoze.bfg here. It takes a fairly small set of
>> zope.* packages.
>
> Sure. Nothing says you have to use *all* ZTK packages either. It's a
> collection of packages for building web frameworks. BFG is amazingly
> minimalistic and will by itself only include a very small set of ZTK
> packages, and I would be surprised if it ever included all the ZTK
> packages. Maybe I stretch the word too much, but I would almost say
> that BFG isn't dependent on ZTK, but just on the Zope Component
> Architecture.

BFG-the-framework uses the "bicycle seat toolkit" (zope.interface,
zope.component, and dependencies). The complete set of direct
dependencies are:

$ cat eggs/repoze.bfg-1.0b2-py2.6.egg/EGG-INFO/requires.txt
setuptools
chameleon.core >= 1.0b32
chameleon.zpt >= 1.0b16
PasteScript
WebOb
zope.interface >= 3.5.1
zope.component >= 3.6.0
zope.deprecation
repoze.zcml
repoze.lru
martian

BFG apps don't necessarily require anything beyond BFG's dependencies:

- - They may or may not use the "mini-ZTK" packages directly, because
decorator-style view registrations make thinking about the ZCA
optional.

- - They often use a few extra ZTK pacakges, e.g. zope.index.

- - ZODB is optional; apps using an ORM don't need it.

- - BFG apps normally use the chameleon implementation of ZPT, but that
isn't a requirement: the application is free to use another
templating system, or the zope.pagetemplate implemenatation.

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver [at] palladion
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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regebro at gmail

Jul 5, 2009, 12:03 PM

Post #10 of 27 (2326 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

2009/7/5 Tres Seaver <tseaver [at] palladion>:
> BFG-the-framework uses the "bicycle seat toolkit" (zope.interface,
> zope.component, and dependencies).

Fun name. Any reason for calling it this instead of the ZCA? Except
that it's obviously are funnier? :-)

--
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http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
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tseaver at palladion

Jul 5, 2009, 7:22 PM

Post #11 of 27 (2323 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

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Lennart Regebro wrote:
> 2009/7/5 Tres Seaver <tseaver [at] palladion>:
>> BFG-the-framework uses the "bicycle seat toolkit" (zope.interface,
>> zope.component, and dependencies).
>
> Fun name. Any reason for calling it this instead of the ZCA? Except
> that it's obviously are funnier? :-)

Two reasons:

- - The set I have been describing with that term is a little bigger the
ZCA: it includes zope.testing, for instance.

- - I originally used to when arguing that there really wasn't *a* ZTK,
but a number of ZTKs, tailored to different purposes.

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver [at] palladion
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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ct at gocept

Jul 5, 2009, 11:36 PM

Post #12 of 27 (2318 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

Hi,

On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 11:14 +0200, Tobias Rodäbel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 05.07.2009, at 07:06, Lennart Regebro wrote:
>
> > 2009/7/5 Stephan Richter <srichter [at] cosmos>:
> >> To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally
> >> meaningless
> >> to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build
> >> even a
> >> fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package
> >> in there.
> >
> > As I understand it, ZTK is not meant to build applications on. It's
> > meant to build application servers on. ZTK is supposed to be tha base
> > on which we build things like Grok, Plone, and yes, Zope 3.
>
> I'd like to mention repoze.bfg here. It takes a fairly small set of
> zope.* packages. What the ZTK is will be finally defined by the
> included packages. From a user's (developing with ZTK) perspective,
> I'd appreciate a small good documented well tested and stable set of
> tools to build web applications on regardless of which server or which
> db I want to use. Christian's list represents that very well, IMHO I'd
> kick a few packages I don't use at all. And where is zope.catalog? BTW
> z3c.* packages in the ZTK would baffle me a lot, OTOH renaming z3c
> packages just to fit into the ZTK seems a bit unorthodox.

Good catch! The package `zope.catalog` was refactored out of
zope.app.catalog and wasn't in the 3.4 KGS that I used. Damn.

I need to rerun with the package list of 3.5dev ...

Christian

--
Christian Theune · ct [at] gocept
gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany
http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 7 · fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development

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ct at gocept

Jul 5, 2009, 11:58 PM

Post #13 of 27 (2318 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

Hi,

On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 13:31 -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Christian Theune wrote:
>
> > I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
> > to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
> > defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
> >
> > It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
> > http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
> >
> > So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
> > way, then please speak up.
>
> Thanks for putting the list together! A couple of observations:
>
> - - Jim asked us to remove 'zodbcode' and dependencies ('zope.app.module',
> 'zope.app.interface').

Check. I moved those to the "deprecated" list.

> - - 'zope.decorator' doesn't belong at all: it is merely a BBB location
> for stuff now in 'zope.security' / 'zope.proxy'.

And the package name already said so. I've also moved it to the
"deprecated" list.

> - - I think that any package on the list which is not used (transitively)
> by either Grok or Zope2 should be excluded, unless there is a
> developer who will champion it.
>
> o The packages required for Zope2 are listed here:
> http://svn.zope.org/Zope/trunk/versions.cfg?view=markup
> The 'zodbcode' and 'zope.app.interface' items there are not actually
> needed, AFAICT.
>
> o The Grok list is here:
> http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/grok-1.0a4.cfg
> I don't know whether Grok actually needs 'zodbcode' /
> 'zope.app.interface', either.

Hmm. There's quite some truth here. I think this needs discussion. I'm
also currently trying to figure out how stakeholders of the app server
formerly known as Zope 3 will proceed. This would also need to be taken
into account for this.

> - - I think clustering the list into groups of related pacakges would be
> helpful, as well. E.g.:
>
> "Bicycle-seat Toolkit"
> ----------------------
> zope.component
> zope.configuration
> zope.event
> zope.i18nmessageid
> zope.interface
> zope.schema
> zope.testing
>
>
> "Zope Page Templates"
> ---------------------
> zope.pagetemplate
> zope.tal
> zope.tales
>
>
> "DTML / STX"
> ------------
> zope.documenttemplate
> zope.structuredtext
>
>
> Proxy wrappers (require C extensions)
> -------------------------------------
> zope.deferredimport
> zope.deprecation (actually, doesn't require zope.proxy)
> zope.location
> zope.proxy
> zope.security
>
> ... and so forth.

Sounds like a good idea in addition to the life-cycle information that
is currently there. I'd rather first decide which packages we leave in
before clustering them, though.

> - - Links to the dependency graphs for each toolkit package would be
> helpful, too.

I was thinking about some dashboard for getting an overview for all
managed packages anyway. I've added that thought to the list of
information it should provide. (It's in the open issues document for
now.)

Christian

--
Christian Theune · ct [at] gocept
gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany
http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 7 · fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development

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jim at zope

Jul 6, 2009, 6:56 AM

Post #14 of 27 (2316 views)
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Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On Jul 4, 2009, at 8:41 PM, Chris McDonough wrote:

> On 7/4/09 7:55 PM, Stephan Richter wrote:
>> On Saturday 04 July 2009, Christian Theune wrote:
>>> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not
>>> belong
>>> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list
>>> that
>>> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>>>
>>> It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
>>> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>>>
>>> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the
>>> wrong
>>> way, then please speak up.
>>
>> To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally
>> meaningless
>> to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build
>> even a
>> fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package
>> in there.
>
> Maybe not surprisingly I have the opposite feeling. To me, it's
> already a
> pretty large set of "definite" packages (~60), and a definitely
> large set of
> "definite" + "under review" packages (~120). Are we going to be
> able to
> maintain all that software over time?

Yes

> If we do, will we have time to do
> anything else?

Yes. Generally, these packages should require very little
maintenance. They've gotten a lot recently to try to reduce
dependencies, but I don't think they'll need much going forward.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton
Zope Corporation

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ws at gocept

Jul 22, 2009, 11:32 PM

Post #15 of 27 (2004 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

* Christian Theune <ct [at] gocept> [2009-07-04 13:33]:
> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>
> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
> way, then please speak up.

The following packages say about themselves that they are deprecated, so
I proprose moving them to the "deprecated" section in the package listing
as well (I can do the editing if I get a "go"):

zope.modulealias
zope.thread
zope.app.annotation
zope.app.container
zope.app.folder
zope.app.layers
zope.app.skins
zope.app.pluggableauth
zope.app.session
zope.app.traversing
zope.app.workflow
zope.app.zapi
zope.app.intid
zope.app.keyreference

Wolfgang

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ws at gocept

Jul 28, 2009, 10:44 PM

Post #16 of 27 (1946 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

* Wolfgang Schnerring <ws [at] gocept> [2009-07-23 08:32]:
> * Christian Theune <ct [at] gocept> [2009-07-04 13:33]:
>> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
>> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
>> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>
> The following packages say about themselves that they are deprecated, so
> I proprose moving them to the "deprecated" section in the package listing
> as well (I can do the editing if I get a "go"):

Silence is consent, isn't it? ;-) Commited in r102361.

Wolfgang

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ct at gocept

Jul 28, 2009, 10:54 PM

Post #17 of 27 (1950 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On 07/29/2009 07:44 AM, Wolfgang Schnerring wrote:
> * Wolfgang Schnerring<ws [at] gocept> [2009-07-23 08:32]:
>> * Christian Theune<ct [at] gocept> [2009-07-04 13:33]:
>>> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
>>> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
>>> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>>> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>>
>> The following packages say about themselves that they are deprecated, so
>> I proprose moving them to the "deprecated" section in the package listing
>> as well (I can do the editing if I get a "go"):
>
> Silence is consent, isn't it? ;-) Commited in r102361.

Yes. Thanks for taking the time.

--
Christian Theune � ct [at] gocept
gocept gmbh & co. kg � forsterstra�e 29 � 06112 halle (saale) � germany
http://gocept.com � tel +49 345 1229889 0 � fax +49 345 1229889 1
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ct at gocept

Jul 28, 2009, 10:54 PM

Post #18 of 27 (1940 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On 07/29/2009 07:44 AM, Wolfgang Schnerring wrote:
> * Wolfgang Schnerring<ws [at] gocept> [2009-07-23 08:32]:
>> * Christian Theune<ct [at] gocept> [2009-07-04 13:33]:
>>> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
>>> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
>>> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>>> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>>
>> The following packages say about themselves that they are deprecated, so
>> I proprose moving them to the "deprecated" section in the package listing
>> as well (I can do the editing if I get a "go"):
>
> Silence is consent, isn't it? ;-) Commited in r102361.

Yes. Thanks for taking the time.

--
Christian Theune � ct [at] gocept
gocept gmbh & co. kg � forsterstra�e 29 � 06112 halle (saale) � germany
http://gocept.com � tel +49 345 1229889 0 � fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development

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faassen at startifact

Aug 6, 2009, 9:26 AM

Post #19 of 27 (1830 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

Lennart Regebro wrote:
> 2009/7/5 Stephan Richter <srichter [at] cosmos>:
>> To be honest, I am very disappointed by this list. It is totally meaningless
>> to me since it does not represent any list with which I can build even a
>> fairly simple application today. There is not a single z3c package in there.
>
> As I understand it, ZTK is not meant to build applications on. It's
> meant to build application servers on. ZTK is supposed to be tha base
> on which we build things like Grok, Plone, and yes, Zope 3.
>
>> Anyways, if the ZTK does not become more comprehensive, I will keep developing
>> the list that is now in zope.release (aka Zope 3.5.0dev).
>
> I sure hope you will!

Agreed. The ZTK is pulled into one direction or another (is it a renamed
and refocused Zope 3? or is it a framework construction kit? or a set of
libraries we can build other libraries on?).

I think in general frameworks like Zope 2, Grok and
whatever-Stephan's-appserver-is-named should lock down quite a bit more
than what's in the ZTK itself. It's just that the ZTK process itself
doesn't manage these packages.

Regards,

Martijn

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jim at zope

Aug 11, 2009, 2:39 PM

Post #20 of 27 (1748 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Christian Theune<ct [at] gocept> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>
> It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>
> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
> way, then please speak up.

Why is zope.ucol in the list? It's a pain to install (and thus test)
because it needs ICU.

Jim

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jim at zope

Aug 11, 2009, 2:53 PM

Post #21 of 27 (1747 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Jim Fulton<jim [at] zope> wrote:
...
> Why is zope.ucol in the list? �It's a pain to install (and thus test)
> because it needs ICU.

BTW, I hope that zope.ucol isn't needed (when you need unicode
collation badly enough that you're willing to install ICU) anymore. I
wrote it when PyICU was a pain to install. I hear it's gotten easier
to install.

Jim

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ct at gocept

Aug 12, 2009, 11:42 PM

Post #22 of 27 (1727 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

On 08/11/2009 11:39 PM, Jim Fulton wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Christian Theune<ct [at] gocept> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I took the Zope 3.4 KGS, removed the obvious packages that do not belong
>> to the ZTK out of the list and created a home for the master list that
>> defines which packages belong to the ZTK.
>>
>> It's in the Zope toolkit documentation:
>> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/packages.html
>>
>> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
>> way, then please speak up.
>
> Why is zope.ucol in the list? It's a pain to install (and thus test)
> because it needs ICU.

It is in there because I started that list from an inclusive point of
view, removing things that shouldn't be in there. I'll take zope.ucol out.

Christian

- --
Christian Theune � ct [at] gocept
gocept gmbh & co. kg � forsterstra�e 29 � 06112 halle (saale) � germany
http://gocept.com � tel +49 345 1229889 0 � fax +49 345 1229889 1
Zope and Plone consulting and development
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jim at zope

Aug 14, 2009, 3:32 AM

Post #23 of 27 (1698 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Christian Theune<ct [at] gocept> wrote:
> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
> way, then please speak up.

I think zope.wfmc and zope.app.wfmc should be removed. I don't think
they're widely used. I don't use them any more and I wrote them. :)
I'm not personally maintaining them.

I think zope.xmlpickle should be removed. I don't think it's widely
used in Zope applications. I do find it useful from time to time for
looking at pickles and plan to maintain it in the future, but don't
think it should be in the ZTK.

Jim

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faassen at startifact

Aug 25, 2009, 9:04 AM

Post #24 of 27 (1495 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

Jim Fulton wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Jim Fulton<jim [at] zope> wrote:
> ...
>> Why is zope.ucol in the list? It's a pain to install (and thus test)
>> because it needs ICU.
>
> BTW, I hope that zope.ucol isn't needed (when you need unicode
> collation badly enough that you're willing to install ICU) anymore. I
> wrote it when PyICU was a pain to install. I hear it's gotten easier
> to install.

+1 on removing zope.ucol from the list.

Regards,

Martijn

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faassen at startifact

Aug 25, 2009, 9:17 AM

Post #25 of 27 (1495 views)
Permalink

Re: List of packages in ZTK [In reply to]

Jim Fulton wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Christian Theune<ct [at] gocept> wrote:
>> So, if you see that a package is missing or is classified in the wrong
>> way, then please speak up.
>
> I think zope.wfmc and zope.app.wfmc should be removed. I don't think
> they're widely used. I don't use them any more and I wrote them. :)
> I'm not personally maintaining them.

+1 to removing those.

> I think zope.xmlpickle should be removed. I don't think it's widely
> used in Zope applications. I do find it useful from time to time for
> looking at pickles and plan to maintain it in the future, but don't
> think it should be in the ZTK.

+1 as well.

Regards,

Martijn

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