Mailing List Archive: Zope: Dev

Re: The future of Zope{2, 3} and Plone in Debian and Ubuntu

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tseaver at palladion

Jun 23, 2009, 1:20 PM

Post #1 of 4 (420 views)
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Re: The future of Zope{2, 3} and Plone in Debian and Ubuntu

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Fabio Tranchitella wrote:

> Zope 2 and Plone
> ================
>
> Zope 2 and Plone are obviously related, so the future of one of the two
> influences the other one.
>
> The main problem for Zope2 is that the current stable upstream branch
> (2.12) still requires python2.4.

Incorrect: Zope 2.12 is supported only on Python 2.5 / 2.6. The
INSTALL.rst[1] file says:

Prerequisites
-------------

System requirements when building from source

- A supported version of Python, including the development support if
installed from system-level packages. Supported versions include:

* 2.5.x, (x >= 4)

* 2.6.x

- Zope needs the Python ``zlib`` module to be importable. If you are
building your own Python from source, please be sure that you have
the headers installed which correspond to your system's ``zlib``.

- A C compiler capable of building extension modules for your Python
(gcc recommended).

> This is not acceptable in Debian and
> Ubuntu, and Zope 2 is right now the only stopper for the removal of
> python2.4 from both Debian and Ubuntu.
>
> Even worse, the current stable Plone releases requires Zope 2.10, which we
> suppose will never support anything but python2.4 in the foreseeable
> future. The new major upstream branch (Plone 4) is still far from being released, which means
> that the only way to support Plone and Zope 2.x in Debian and Ubuntu is to
> keep python2.4 in the distribution.

Plone 4.0 is slated be released this year, with an explicit goal of
running on Zope 2.12 / Python 2.{5,6}][1].

> For this reason, together with the upstream suggestions to use the unified
> installer and zc.buildout as primary tools for deploying Zope 2 and Plone,
> the Debian/Ubuntu Zope Team decided to drop support for Zope 2, Plone and
> all the other Zope 2 products. We will file requests of removal for all the
> Zope and Plone packages from the archive.

In the short term, I would just update the existing packages to use
Python 2.5, which is "known to work" with Zope 2.10.

[1] http://svn.zope.org/Zope/branches/2.12/doc/INSTALL.rst?view=auto

[2] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.zope.plone.teams.framework/2767

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver[at]palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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ree at ree

Jun 23, 2009, 10:20 PM

Post #2 of 4 (388 views)
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Re: The future of Zope{2, 3} and Plone in Debian and Ubuntu [In reply to]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:15:12 +0200, Fabio Tranchitella wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> In the last couple of weeks Brian Sutherland, Matthias Klose and I
> worked together to improve the Zope packaging for Debian and Ubuntu.
> This e-mail summarizes the problems we faced, the decisions that have
> been taken and the changes that we will upload to experimental and
> unstable in the next weeks.
>
> Short summary
> =============
>
> We switch from a monolithic Zope 3 package to individual packages for
> the libraries that are part of the ZTK (Zope Toolkit). Zope instance
> management tools are not supported anymore, as we suggest the use of
> WSGI.
>
> We also drop support for Zope 2 and Plone in Debian and Ubuntu, asking
> for the removal of the packages from the distribution.

I am certainly one person that did use the Debian packages at the time
when people first started to suggest against it. I dropped this habit
when I needed to work most of the time with custom Zope and Plone
versions that were too new or too rare to be in Debian yet. But I'm still
using Debian's python2.4 right now to bootstrap my buildouts.

> The main problem for Zope2 is that the current stable upstream branch
> (2.12) still requires pthon2.4. This is not acceptable in Debian and
> Ubuntu, and Zope 2 is right now the only stopper for the removal of
> python2.4 from both Debian and Ubuntu.

What's the reason for the removal of python2.4? Is there a technological
reason, or is this a policy decision? Don't forget that Plone users, who
are also the biggest consumer group of Zope / ZTK, still will be users of
2.4 for a while. The unified installer is not the only installation
method used for Plone, in fact many users and the majority of deployments
use python + buildout. These users will need to read documentation and do
installation to be able to bootstrap their buildout, which is not exactly
a reason for them to choose Debian / Ubuntu in this case.

--
Balazs Ree

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kobold at kobold

Jun 23, 2009, 10:59 PM

Post #3 of 4 (392 views)
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Re: The future of Zope{2, 3} and Plone in Debian and Ubuntu [In reply to]

Hello,

* 2009-06-24 07:30, Balazs Ree wrote:
> What's the reason for the removal of python2.4? Is there a technological
> reason, or is this a policy decision? Don't forget that Plone users, who
> are also the biggest consumer group of Zope / ZTK, still will be users of
> 2.4 for a while. The unified installer is not the only installation
> method used for Plone, in fact many users and the majority of deployments
> use python + buildout. These users will need to read documentation and do
> installation to be able to bootstrap their buildout, which is not exactly
> a reason for them to choose Debian / Ubuntu in this case.

We already have python2.5 and python2.6; after the release of stable
(either Debian or Ubuntu), we have to provide security support for all the
packages, and supporting three different versions of python is too much
work.

--
Fabio Tranchitella http://www.kobold.it
Free Software Developer and Consultant http://www.tranchitella.it
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sdouche at gmail

Jun 24, 2009, 2:19 AM

Post #4 of 4 (389 views)
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Re: The future of Zope{2, 3} and Plone in Debian and Ubuntu [In reply to]

2009/6/24 Fabio Tranchitella <kobold[at]kobold.it>:
> Hello,

Hi Fabio :)

> We already have python2.5 and python2.6

and Python 3.0 and...

> we have to provide security support for all the
> packages, and supporting three different versions of python is too much
> work.

Is it possible to keep Python 2.4 with a warning like "we don't
provide support on this version" ?

BTW, thank you for your work!

--
Sebastien Douche <sdouche[at]gmail.com>
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