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movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent

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chrism at plope

May 15, 2009, 1:26 AM

Post #1 of 12 (862 views)
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movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent

I've created two codependent branches of zope.container and zope.lifecyclevent:

http://svn.zope.org/zope.container/branches/movedaddedremoved/

http://svn.zope.org/zope.lifecycleevent/branches/movedaddedremoved/

The intent was to move ``IObjectMovedEvent``, ``IObjectAddedEvent``,
``IObjectRemovedEvent`` interfaces and ``ObjectMovedEvent``,
``ObjectAddedEvent`` and ``ObjectRemovedEvent`` to the ``zope.lifecycleevent``
event package. Merging this would allow us to reduce dependencies on
zope.container in other packages (instead, those packages would just depend on
zope.lifecycleevent, which has very few dependencies). zope.intid is one such
package (although it still will have one niggling dependency on "IContained"
from zope.container even after it started to import event stuff from
zope.lifecycleevent)

I don't know if merging this stuff is reasonable. I do understand the
difference between "lifecycle events" and "container events" and the events I
moved out are definitely container events. I just wonder if it matters to be
completely correct terminology-wise here. The other alternative is to create
another package.

- C
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hannosch at hannosch

May 15, 2009, 2:15 AM

Post #2 of 12 (820 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

Chris McDonough wrote:
> I've created two codependent branches of zope.container and zope.lifecyclevent:

[...]

> I don't know if merging this stuff is reasonable. I do understand the
> difference between "lifecycle events" and "container events" and the events I
> moved out are definitely container events. I just wonder if it matters to be
> completely correct terminology-wise here. The other alternative is to create
> another package.

+1 on merging.

I found it rather annoying so far to look for these interfaces in
different places. To me it belongs to the lifecycle of an object to be
part of a container.

Hanno

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faassen at startifact

May 15, 2009, 4:33 AM

Post #3 of 12 (815 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> Chris McDonough wrote:
>> I've created two codependent branches of zope.container and zope.lifecyclevent:
>
> [...]
>
>> I don't know if merging this stuff is reasonable. I do understand the
>> difference between "lifecycle events" and "container events" and the events I
>> moved out are definitely container events. I just wonder if it matters to be
>> completely correct terminology-wise here. The other alternative is to create
>> another package.
>
> +1 on merging.
>
> I found it rather annoying so far to look for these interfaces in
> different places. To me it belongs to the lifecycle of an object to be
> part of a container.

+1 too. Even though formally it might indeed be that these events are
only container related, I did have the same frustration Hanno describes
- these are very common events and often you want to subscribe to them
and IObjectModified which is already in zope.lifecyclevents.

Regards,

Martijn

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chrism at plope

May 17, 2009, 9:43 AM

Post #4 of 12 (790 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

On 5/15/09 7:33 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>> Chris McDonough wrote:
>>> I've created two codependent branches of zope.container and zope.lifecyclevent:
>> [...]
>>
>>> I don't know if merging this stuff is reasonable. I do understand the
>>> difference between "lifecycle events" and "container events" and the events I
>>> moved out are definitely container events. I just wonder if it matters to be
>>> completely correct terminology-wise here. The other alternative is to create
>>> another package.
>> +1 on merging.
>>
>> I found it rather annoying so far to look for these interfaces in
>> different places. To me it belongs to the lifecycle of an object to be
>> part of a container.
>
> +1 too. Even though formally it might indeed be that these events are
> only container related, I did have the same frustration Hanno describes
> - these are very common events and often you want to subscribe to them
> and IObjectModified which is already in zope.lifecyclevents.

These branches were merged. I made a new release of zope.lifecycleevent (3.5.2)
to PyPI. zope.container does not have a new release yet. I may try to move
IContained out of it (to zope.location) then make a new release.

- C

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faassen at startifact

May 17, 2009, 10:34 AM

Post #5 of 12 (789 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

Chris McDonough wrote:

> These branches were merged. I made a new release of zope.lifecycleevent (3.5.2)
> to PyPI.

Thanks very much for doing this work.

As a reminder for the future, please do release changes in the API (as
in zope.lifecycleevent) as major releases (i.e. 3.6).

I realize this requires an extra consideration when releasing that
people seem to forget to do, so I've just adjusted the release
instructions to make a note of this:

(might not have shown up on the web yet, but will soon, step 2)

http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/releasing-software.html

Regards,

Martijn

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chrism at plope

May 17, 2009, 11:18 AM

Post #6 of 12 (788 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

I don't currently have access to publish zope.intid, but I think it's probably
ready for a release too, BTW.

- C

On 5/17/09 1:34 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Chris McDonough wrote:
>
>> These branches were merged. I made a new release of zope.lifecycleevent (3.5.2)
>> to PyPI.
>
> Thanks very much for doing this work.
>
> As a reminder for the future, please do release changes in the API (as
> in zope.lifecycleevent) as major releases (i.e. 3.6).
>
> I realize this requires an extra consideration when releasing that
> people seem to forget to do, so I've just adjusted the release
> instructions to make a note of this:
>
> (might not have shown up on the web yet, but will soon, step 2)
>
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/releasing-software.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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faassen at startifact

May 18, 2009, 3:42 AM

Post #7 of 12 (774 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

Chris McDonough wrote:
> I don't currently have access to publish zope.intid, but I think it's probably
> ready for a release too, BTW.

I just gave you access to this package. Stephan has a script by the way
that can give you access to a wide range of packages, might be a good
idea if he ran it. :)

Regards,

Martijn

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chrism at plope

May 18, 2009, 4:30 PM

Post #8 of 12 (764 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

On 5/18/09 6:42 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Chris McDonough wrote:
>> I don't currently have access to publish zope.intid, but I think it's probably
>> ready for a release too, BTW.
>
> I just gave you access to this package. Stephan has a script by the way
> that can give you access to a wide range of packages, might be a good
> idea if he ran it. :)

Thanks.

zope.intid 3.7.1 (which depends on zope.lifecycleevent>=3.5.2 and
zope.location>=3.5.4) has been released.

- C
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faassen at startifact

May 19, 2009, 3:49 AM

Post #9 of 12 (755 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

Chris McDonough wrote:
> On 5/18/09 6:42 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> Chris McDonough wrote:
>>> I don't currently have access to publish zope.intid, but I think it's probably
>>> ready for a release too, BTW.
>> I just gave you access to this package. Stephan has a script by the way
>> that can give you access to a wide range of packages, might be a good
>> idea if he ran it. :)
>
> Thanks.
>
> zope.intid 3.7.1 (which depends on zope.lifecycleevent>=3.5.2 and
> zope.location>=3.5.4) has been released.

Thanks.

But: why is this not zope.intid 3.8? It's clearly not a bugfix release.

Regards,

Martijn

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chrism at plope

May 19, 2009, 7:53 AM

Post #10 of 12 (756 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

On 5/19/09 6:49 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Chris McDonough wrote:
>> On 5/18/09 6:42 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
>>> Chris McDonough wrote:
>>>> I don't currently have access to publish zope.intid, but I think it's probably
>>>> ready for a release too, BTW.
>>> I just gave you access to this package. Stephan has a script by the way
>>> that can give you access to a wide range of packages, might be a good
>>> idea if he ran it. :)
>> Thanks.
>>
>> zope.intid 3.7.1 (which depends on zope.lifecycleevent>=3.5.2 and
>> zope.location>=3.5.4) has been released.
>
> Thanks.
>
> But: why is this not zope.intid 3.8? It's clearly not a bugfix release.

Er, it actually isn't a major release. None of *its* interfaces moved. I
thought we were defining "major release" as "API change".

- C
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faassen at startifact

May 19, 2009, 8:06 AM

Post #11 of 12 (757 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

Chris McDonough wrote:
[snip]
> Er, it actually isn't a major release. None of *its* interfaces moved. I
> thought we were defining "major release" as "API change".

Hm, a dependency change isn't a bugfix either.

It's an edge case, and one where I think we should err on the side of
caution. It's a change in behavior that could have more consequences
than the normally bugfix, though less consequences than API change.

It could be argued that a change in dependencies *is* a feature change.
Less might be registered. People might depend on implicit dependencies
being present (even though they shouldn't). Less might be monkey-patched...

It was recorded here previously:

http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/steeringgroup/decisions.html

"Moving code around as part of dependency refactoring is worth a feature
release (x.y as opposed to x.y.z version number) for the affected
packages. Changing an import to make use of a new package that came out
of such refactoring is also worth a feature release."

Regards,

Martijn

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chrism at plope

May 19, 2009, 8:28 AM

Post #12 of 12 (747 views)
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Re: movedaddedremoved branches of zope.container and zope.lifecycleevent [In reply to]

On 5/19/09 11:06 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Chris McDonough wrote:
> [snip]
>> Er, it actually isn't a major release. None of *its* interfaces moved. I
>> thought we were defining "major release" as "API change".
>
> Hm, a dependency change isn't a bugfix either.
>
> It's an edge case, and one where I think we should err on the side of
> caution. It's a change in behavior that could have more consequences
> than the normally bugfix, though less consequences than API change.
>
> It could be argued that a change in dependencies *is* a feature change.
> Less might be registered. People might depend on implicit dependencies
> being present (even though they shouldn't). Less might be monkey-patched...
>
> It was recorded here previously:
>
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/steeringgroup/decisions.html
>
> "Moving code around as part of dependency refactoring is worth a feature
> release (x.y as opposed to x.y.z version number) for the affected
> packages. Changing an import to make use of a new package that came out
> of such refactoring is also worth a feature release."

OK, noted.

Thanks,

- C
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