Mailing List Archive: Zope: CMF

[dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies

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y.2008 at wcm-solutions

Apr 20, 2008, 1:21 PM

Post #1 of 10 (249 views)
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[dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies

Hi!

Each Product has two lists of dependencies: One in DEPENDENCIES.txt and
one in setup.py. They are not in sync.

The setup.py files contain only 'setuptools' and 'five.localsitemanager'
dependencies:

Products.GenericSetup/setup.py:

install_requires=[
"setuptools",
"five.localsitemanager >= 0.2",
# 'Zope >= 2.10',
],

Products.CMFCore/setup.py:

install_requires=[
'setuptools',
'five.localsitemanager>=0.3',
],

all other setup.py files:

install_requires=[
'setuptools',
],

Until recently, the Products themselves didn't use setuptools. Revision
85287 (http://svn.zope.org/?rev=85287&view=rev) changed that. It is no
longer possible to run CMF without setuptools installed.

Was that intended when setuptools was added to install_requires? We
always tried hard to keep CMF dependencies to a minimum. Will we only
support egg releases for CMF 2.2 and later, making setuptools required
anyway?

I'm just asking. If there are good reasons, I'm fine with adding the
setuptools dependency.

As soon as we have a decision, the relevant files should be updated. Can
we get rid of the DEPENDENCIES.txt files and specify *all* dependencies
in the setup.py files?

Any feedback is welcome.

Cheers,

Yuppie

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See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

wichert at wiggy

Apr 20, 2008, 11:59 PM

Post #2 of 10 (228 views)
Permalink

Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Previously yuppie wrote:
> Until recently, the Products themselves didn't use setuptools. Revision
> 85287 (http://svn.zope.org/?rev=85287&view=rev) changed that. It is no
> longer possible to run CMF without setuptools installed.
>
> Was that intended when setuptools was added to install_requires? We
> always tried hard to keep CMF dependencies to a minimum. Will we only
> support egg releases for CMF 2.2 and later, making setuptools required
> anyway?

The eggified CMF already required setuptools to make sure the Products
namespace is setup correctly. Considering that entire python community
appears to be moving to egg, Zope2 is going to be distributed in egg
form (at least there is a strong move in that direction) I think a
dependency on setuptools is not problematic.

>From a Plone perspective CMF 2.1 will be the last CMF version we use as
products. Starting with Plone 4 we will be using the eggified version.

Wichert.

--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert[at]wiggy.net> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

y.2008 at wcm-solutions

Apr 21, 2008, 2:16 AM

Post #3 of 10 (227 views)
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Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Hi!

Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously yuppie wrote:
>> Until recently, the Products themselves didn't use setuptools. Revision
>> 85287 (http://svn.zope.org/?rev=85287&view=rev) changed that. It is no
>> longer possible to run CMF without setuptools installed.
>>
>> Was that intended when setuptools was added to install_requires? We
>> always tried hard to keep CMF dependencies to a minimum. Will we only
>> support egg releases for CMF 2.2 and later, making setuptools required
>> anyway?
>
> The eggified CMF already required setuptools to make sure the Products
> namespace is setup correctly.

'declare_namespace' is used with a fallback, so setuptools was not
strictly required:

try:
__import__('pkg_resources').declare_namespace(__name__)
except ImportError:
from pkgutil import extend_path
__path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__)

> Considering that entire python community
> appears to be moving to egg, Zope2 is going to be distributed in egg
> form (at least there is a strong move in that direction) I think a
> dependency on setuptools is not problematic.

I guess CMF 2.2 will be released before Zope2 or Python requires
setuptools, so at least for now it is a GenericSetup/CMF dependency.

http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/ still exists and needs to be maintained
(or deleted). Who ever added the setuptools dependency should update
INSTALL.txt and friends (if we agree to keep CMF trunk and the dependency).

Cheers,

Yuppie

_______________________________________________
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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

wichert at wiggy

Apr 21, 2008, 2:24 AM

Post #4 of 10 (227 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Previously yuppie wrote:
> Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> >Previously yuppie wrote:
> >>Until recently, the Products themselves didn't use setuptools. Revision
> >>85287 (http://svn.zope.org/?rev=85287&view=rev) changed that. It is no
> >>longer possible to run CMF without setuptools installed.
> >>
> >>Was that intended when setuptools was added to install_requires? We
> >>always tried hard to keep CMF dependencies to a minimum. Will we only
> >>support egg releases for CMF 2.2 and later, making setuptools required
> >>anyway?
> >
> >The eggified CMF already required setuptools to make sure the Products
> >namespace is setup correctly.
>
> 'declare_namespace' is used with a fallback, so setuptools was not
> strictly required:
>
> try:
> __import__('pkg_resources').declare_namespace(__name__)
> except ImportError:
> from pkgutil import extend_path
> __path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__)

However without that code the Products.* namespace would probably be
broken and CMF wouldn't work.

Wichert.

--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert[at]wiggy.net> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

plone at hannosch

Apr 21, 2008, 3:24 AM

Post #5 of 10 (229 views)
Permalink

Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

yuppie wrote:
> Wichert Akkerman wrote:
>> Previously yuppie wrote:
>>> Until recently, the Products themselves didn't use setuptools.
>>> Revision 85287 (http://svn.zope.org/?rev=85287&view=rev) changed
>>> that. It is no longer possible to run CMF without setuptools installed.

For those of you who didn't read the changeset, I used the version
number parsing code from setuptools in order to sort the versions inside
the upgrade machinery. I didn't want to duplicate the code to parse all
those cryptic version numbers like '3.1-rc1-dev-r42' and sort them
correctly. My reasoning for reusing the setuptools functions was, that
we seem to use them for package versions as well since some time and
they seem to be a reasonable standard.

>> Considering that entire python community
>> appears to be moving to egg, Zope2 is going to be distributed in egg
>> form (at least there is a strong move in that direction) I think a
>> dependency on setuptools is not problematic.
>
> I guess CMF 2.2 will be released before Zope2 or Python requires
> setuptools, so at least for now it is a GenericSetup/CMF dependency.
>
> http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/ still exists and needs to be maintained
> (or deleted). Who ever added the setuptools dependency should update
> INSTALL.txt and friends (if we agree to keep CMF trunk and the dependency).

I don't have a strong opinion on CMF/trunk. I don't use it, so I don't
have a particular interest in keeping it around. For me the dependencies
noted in setup.py are the canonical place and I would delete the
DEPENDENCIES.txt files from all packages on trunk and instead make sure
the ones in setup.py are current.

If we can agree on that, I can do the work and make sure INSTALL.txt is
current as well.

Hanno

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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

y.2008 at wcm-solutions

Apr 21, 2008, 10:43 PM

Post #6 of 10 (210 views)
Permalink

Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Hi Hanno!

Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> yuppie wrote:
>> I guess CMF 2.2 will be released before Zope2 or Python requires
>> setuptools, so at least for now it is a GenericSetup/CMF dependency.
>>
>> http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/ still exists and needs to be maintained
>> (or deleted). Who ever added the setuptools dependency should update
>> INSTALL.txt and friends (if we agree to keep CMF trunk and the
>> dependency).
>
> I don't have a strong opinion on CMF/trunk. I don't use it, so I don't
> have a particular interest in keeping it around.

Maybe it should be replaced by a buildout, but for now I would keep it.

> For me the dependencies
> noted in setup.py are the canonical place and I would delete the
> DEPENDENCIES.txt files from all packages on trunk and instead make sure
> the ones in setup.py are current.
>
> If we can agree on that, I can do the work and make sure INSTALL.txt is
> current as well.

I'm still not 100% convinced that making CMF 2.2 depend on setuptools is
necessary. But given that you volunteer to do all the related work, I'm
fine with it.

Cheers,

Yuppie

_______________________________________________
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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

charlie at begeistert

Apr 22, 2008, 1:05 AM

Post #7 of 10 (213 views)
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Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Am 21.04.2008 um 08:59 schrieb Wichert Akkerman:

> The eggified CMF already required setuptools to make sure the Products
> namespace is setup correctly. Considering that entire python community
> appears to be moving to egg, Zope2 is going to be distributed in egg
> form (at least there is a strong move in that direction) I think a
> dependency on setuptools is not problematic.

-1

Lemmings and cliff spring to mind when you mention inevitability. I
think there is a significant difference between supporting eggs and
requiring them.

Charlie
--
Charlie Clark
Helmholtzstr. 20
D�sseldorf
D- 40215
Tel: +49-211-938-5360
GSM: +49-178-782-6226

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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

wichert at wiggy

Apr 22, 2008, 1:10 AM

Post #8 of 10 (211 views)
Permalink

Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Previously Charlie Clark wrote:
>
> Am 21.04.2008 um 08:59 schrieb Wichert Akkerman:
>
> >The eggified CMF already required setuptools to make sure the Products
> >namespace is setup correctly. Considering that entire python community
> >appears to be moving to egg, Zope2 is going to be distributed in egg
> >form (at least there is a strong move in that direction) I think a
> >dependency on setuptools is not problematic.
>
>
> -1
>
> Lemmings and cliff spring to mind when you mention inevitability. I
> think there is a significant difference between supporting eggs and
> requiring them.

I never said 'require eggs'. I said 'requiring setuptools is not
problematic'.

Wichert.

--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert[at]wiggy.net> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF[at]lists.zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

tseaver at palladion

Apr 22, 2008, 8:06 AM

Post #9 of 10 (206 views)
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Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

yuppie wrote:
> Hi Hanno!
>
>
> Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>> yuppie wrote:
>>> I guess CMF 2.2 will be released before Zope2 or Python requires
>>> setuptools, so at least for now it is a GenericSetup/CMF dependency.
>>>
>>> http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/ still exists and needs to be maintained
>>> (or deleted). Who ever added the setuptools dependency should update
>>> INSTALL.txt and friends (if we agree to keep CMF trunk and the
>>> dependency).
>> I don't have a strong opinion on CMF/trunk. I don't use it, so I don't
>> have a particular interest in keeping it around.
>
> Maybe it should be replaced by a buildout, but for now I would keep it.

- -1 to managing dependencies in buildout-specific files: they belong in
setup.py.

>> For me the dependencies
>> noted in setup.py are the canonical place and I would delete the
>> DEPENDENCIES.txt files from all packages on trunk and instead make sure
>> the ones in setup.py are current.
>>
>> If we can agree on that, I can do the work and make sure INSTALL.txt is
>> current as well.
>
> I'm still not 100% convinced that making CMF 2.2 depend on setuptools is
> necessary. But given that you volunteer to do all the related work, I'm
> fine with it.

Given that setuptools is the only mechanism which *enforces*
dependencies, spelling them in setup.py is not likely to cause any
difficulties. I'm averse to packaging future versions of CMF in any
form other than a setuptools-using sdist (no binaries, just the tarballs
as generated by setuptools).

Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver[at]palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
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See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

y.2008 at wcm-solutions

Apr 22, 2008, 8:29 AM

Post #10 of 10 (208 views)
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Re: [dev] GenericSetup and CMF dependencies [In reply to]

Tres Seaver wrote:
> yuppie wrote:
>> Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>>> yuppie wrote:
>>>> I guess CMF 2.2 will be released before Zope2 or Python requires
>>>> setuptools, so at least for now it is a GenericSetup/CMF dependency.
>>>>
>>>> http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/ still exists and needs to be maintained
>>>> (or deleted). Who ever added the setuptools dependency should update
>>>> INSTALL.txt and friends (if we agree to keep CMF trunk and the
>>>> dependency).
>>> I don't have a strong opinion on CMF/trunk. I don't use it, so I don't
>>> have a particular interest in keeping it around.
>> Maybe it should be replaced by a buildout, but for now I would keep it.
>
> - -1 to managing dependencies in buildout-specific files: they belong in
> setup.py.

I guess you did get me wrong. I was talking about the future of
http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/, not about dependency management.

Cheers, Yuppie

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