Mailing List Archive: Zope: CMF

CMF collector on Launchpad?

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jens at dataflake

Aug 13, 2007, 12:17 AM

Post #1 of 16 (2079 views)
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CMF collector on Launchpad?

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Andreas Jung is in the process of getting the regular Zope 2 issue
collector moved onto Launchpad. He said the Launchpad guys could move
other collectors like the CMF collector at the same time. The
question is, do we want this?

My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One
drawback that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do not
contain the full bug history. From other bugtracker experience I know
that's very annoying.

Andreas mentioned some arguments for the move, like having the same
user base on all those collectors, the ability to move bugs between
them, and a much better user interface than the sometimes odd
collector UI.

What's the consensus?

jens

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_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

optilude at gmx

Aug 13, 2007, 12:26 AM

Post #2 of 16 (2029 views)
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Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
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>
> Andreas Jung is in the process of getting the regular Zope 2 issue
> collector moved onto Launchpad. He said the Launchpad guys could move
> other collectors like the CMF collector at the same time. The
> question is, do we want this?
>
> My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One
> drawback that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do not
> contain the full bug history. From other bugtracker experience I know
> that's very annoying.
>
> Andreas mentioned some arguments for the move, like having the same
> user base on all those collectors, the ability to move bugs between
> them, and a much better user interface than the sometimes odd
> collector UI.
>
> What's the consensus?

+1 to move. I find the CMFCollector instances on zope.org incredibly
cumbersome and unintuitive to use. The "downside" is that you'd probably
get more people reporting bugs because they are able to figure out how. ;-)

Martin

--
Acquisition is a jealous mistress

_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

philipp at weitershausen

Aug 13, 2007, 12:34 AM

Post #3 of 16 (2033 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> Andreas Jung is in the process of getting the regular Zope 2 issue
> collector moved onto Launchpad. He said the Launchpad guys could move
> other collectors like the CMF collector at the same time. The question
> is, do we want this?
>
> My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One drawback
> that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do not contain the
> full bug history. From other bugtracker experience I know that's very
> annoying.
>
> Andreas mentioned some arguments for the move, like having the same user
> base on all those collectors, the ability to move bugs between them, and
> a much better user interface than the sometimes odd collector UI.

In general I'm +1.

I agree about the full history in the email, though. Perhaps we can get
it at some point if we bug the Launchpad people enough. As far as the
user interface is concerned, I actually find the Launchpad one a bit
cumbersome at times, too. It's much speedier than our CMFCollector on
zope.org, though.

--
http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training
_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

jens at dataflake

Aug 13, 2007, 12:35 AM

Post #4 of 16 (2037 views)
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Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

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On 13 Aug 2007, at 09:17, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One
> drawback that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do
> not contain the full bug history. From other bugtracker experience
> I know that's very annoying.

I'll have to amend this. My vote is now "-1". As it turns out, their
site doesn't even display in the browser I use most (OmniWeb).

jens

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_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

wichert at wiggy

Aug 13, 2007, 1:10 AM

Post #5 of 16 (2028 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Previously Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Andreas Jung is in the process of getting the regular Zope 2 issue
> collector moved onto Launchpad. He said the Launchpad guys could move
> other collectors like the CMF collector at the same time. The
> question is, do we want this?
>
> My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One
> drawback that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do not
> contain the full bug history. From other bugtracker experience I know
> that's very annoying.
>
> Andreas mentioned some arguments for the move, like having the same
> user base on all those collectors, the ability to move bugs between
> them, and a much better user interface than the sometimes odd
> collector UI.
>
> What's the consensus?

I'm -0.5. The current collector works and the mentions about lack of
context in launchpad are worrying.

Wichert.

--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert [at] wiggy> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

wichert at wiggy

Aug 13, 2007, 1:10 AM

Post #6 of 16 (2044 views)
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Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

plone at hannosch

Aug 13, 2007, 1:49 AM

Post #7 of 16 (2046 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> Andreas Jung is in the process of getting the regular Zope 2 issue
> collector moved onto Launchpad. He said the Launchpad guys could move
> other collectors like the CMF collector at the same time. The question
> is, do we want this?
>
> My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One drawback
> that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do not contain the
> full bug history. From other bugtracker experience I know that's very
> annoying.
>
> Andreas mentioned some arguments for the move, like having the same user
> base on all those collectors, the ability to move bugs between them, and
> a much better user interface than the sometimes odd collector UI.
>
> What's the consensus?

I'm +0.5 on moving away from anything on zope.org. I find the collector
UI and speed suboptimal to work with. Launchpad provides a reasonable
good bug tracker from my experience (I mostly reported bugs against the
launchpad translation system itself in the past ;)).

Personally I find trac a lot more efficient to work with, though. But
it's UI is definitely geared towards developers (which is in the end the
prime target group for CMF).

I'll dare to speak out the unthinkable and as an alternative option
suggest to move the CMF bug tracker to a trac instance hosted on plone.org.

A common user database between the Plone and CMF bug trackers is a
bigger benefit than the common user base between CMF and Zope I think.
But maybe our two communities still don't overlap enough for that idea
to work out ;)

Hanno

_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

charlie at begeistert

Aug 13, 2007, 4:55 AM

Post #8 of 16 (2045 views)
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Re: Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Am 13.08.2007 um 10:49 schrieb Hanno Schlichting:

> I'm +0.5 on moving away from anything on zope.org. I find the
> collector
> UI and speed suboptimal to work with. Launchpad provides a reasonable
> good bug tracker from my experience (I mostly reported bugs against
> the
> launchpad translation system itself in the past ;)).
>
> Personally I find trac a lot more efficient to work with, though. But
> it's UI is definitely geared towards developers (which is in the
> end the
> prime target group for CMF).

Trac certainly *looks* good and has done to highlight usability
deficiences of other bug trackers such as Bugzilla and Collector.

> I'll dare to speak out the unthinkable and as an alternative option
> suggest to move the CMF bug tracker to a trac instance hosted on
> plone.org.

Andrew Milton has at least done a wrapper so you can run Trac on a
Zope site. But having spent some time on Trac I would be against
using it in its current form for a product as complex as the CMF. It
has an appalling data model which is simply not suited to any form of
dependency.

> A common user database between the Plone and CMF bug trackers is a
> bigger benefit than the common user base between CMF and Zope I think.
> But maybe our two communities still don't overlap enough for that idea
> to work out ;)

I think there's merit in having some form of connection Zope -> CMF -
> Plone for reporting bugs in which case I would be in favour of
either modifying Collector or Launchpad for our needs.

I've not posted or dealt with a great many bugs but have not found
the form of the Collector to be a big problem. It's certainly easier
to use than Bugzilla. What is often a greater issue is actually
tackling bugs that do get submitted.

Charlie
--
Charlie Clark
Helmholtzstr. 20
D�sseldorf
D- 40215
Tel: +49-211-938-5360
GSM: +49-178-782-6226

_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

wichert at wiggy

Aug 13, 2007, 5:27 AM

Post #9 of 16 (2029 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Previously Charlie Clark wrote:
> Andrew Milton has at least done a wrapper so you can run Trac on a
> Zope site. But having spent some time on Trac I would be against
> using it in its current form for a product as complex as the CMF. It
> has an appalling data model which is simply not suited to any form of
> dependency.

I'ld counter that Plone is a lot more complex than CMF and Trac is
working great for it.

> I think there's merit in having some form of connection Zope -> CMF -
> > Plone for reporting bugs in which case I would be in favour of
> either modifying Collector or Launchpad for our needs.

The only system which currently would support that is having all of
those in LaunchPad as far as I know. I don't think Trac's multi-tracker
support is up to that yet. And that is not going to happen since Plone
is quite happy with Trac and has no interest in moving to another system
at the moment.

Wichert.

--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert [at] wiggy> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

limi at plone

Aug 13, 2007, 2:53 PM

Post #10 of 16 (2035 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:49:36 -0700, Hanno Schlichting
<plone [at] hannosch> wrote:

> I'll dare to speak out the unthinkable and as an alternative option
> suggest to move the CMF bug tracker to a trac instance hosted on
> plone.org.

As another piece of info (I'm not +/-1, as I rarely use the CMF collector,
and it works for me), we have a script that is capable of doing the
CMFCollector -> Trac migration, if that should be on the table in any
variation. Our Bug #1 still exists in Trac:

http://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/1

("Opened 5 years ago" indeed — quite a bit before Trac existed :)

--
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net

_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

lists at zopyx

Aug 13, 2007, 9:38 PM

Post #11 of 16 (2038 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

--On 13. August 2007 10:49:36 +0200 Hanno Schlichting <plone [at] hannosch>
wrote:

>
> A common user database between the Plone and CMF bug trackers is a
> bigger benefit than the common user base between CMF and Zope I think.
> But maybe our two communities still don't overlap enough for that idea
> to work out ;)

-1

Andreas

optilude at gmx

Aug 14, 2007, 12:42 PM

Post #12 of 16 (2022 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

Hanno Schlichting wrote:

> I'll dare to speak out the unthinkable and as an alternative option
> suggest to move the CMF bug tracker to a trac instance hosted on plone.org.
>
> A common user database between the Plone and CMF bug trackers is a
> bigger benefit than the common user base between CMF and Zope I think.
> But maybe our two communities still don't overlap enough for that idea
> to work out ;)

+1 - for every CMF bug we probably get a report or two as well. I'm not
saying keep them in the same tracker, but having
http://dev.plone.org/cmf might be easier for all parties involved.

At least I'm assuming it's not too much work for Wichert & co to get it
set up and migrating the old issues (we migrated plone.org's
CMFCollector instance), and if the CMF folks don't like Launchpad, then
Trac's at least pretty good, gives you a wiki should you want it, and (a
great benefit for me) a good SVN browser.

Martin

--
Acquisition is a jealous mistress

_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

jens at dataflake

Aug 14, 2007, 11:11 PM

Post #13 of 16 (2027 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

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On 14 Aug 2007, at 21:42, Martin Aspeli wrote:

> Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>
>> I'll dare to speak out the unthinkable and as an alternative option
>> suggest to move the CMF bug tracker to a trac instance hosted on
>> plone.org.
>> A common user database between the Plone and CMF bug trackers is a
>> bigger benefit than the common user base between CMF and Zope I
>> think.
>> But maybe our two communities still don't overlap enough for that
>> idea
>> to work out ;)
>
> +1 - for every CMF bug we probably get a report or two as well. I'm
> not saying keep them in the same tracker, but having http://
> dev.plone.org/cmf might be easier for all parties involved.
>
> At least I'm assuming it's not too much work for Wichert & co to
> get it set up and migrating the old issues (we migrated plone.org's
> CMFCollector instance), and if the CMF folks don't like Launchpad,
> then Trac's at least pretty good, gives you a wiki should you want
> it, and (a great benefit for me) a good SVN browser.

Let's please keep this on topic - this is not about moving the CMF
collector in general, it's specifically about the Launchpag guys
offer to move it there. Otherwise there is no real need to move it
elsewhere.

jens

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_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

lists at zopyx

Sep 21, 2007, 8:44 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1769 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

We are currently working on the migration of the Zope 2 bugtracker.
Jim asked about the migration of the CMF bugtracker...the discussion on
this list was pretty much undecided...anyone of the CMF core developers
should say yes or no. I don't care much about the CMF tracker....it's
basically your decision.

Andreas

--On 13. August 2007 09:17:45 +0200 Jens Vagelpohl <jens [at] dataflake>
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Andreas Jung is in the process of getting the regular Zope 2 issue
> collector moved onto Launchpad. He said the Launchpad guys could move
> other collectors like the CMF collector at the same time. The question
> is, do we want this?
>
> My vote is "-0.5", mostly because I never used Launchpad. One drawback
> that was mentioned is the fact that bugtracker emails do not contain the
> full bug history. From other bugtracker experience I know that's very
> annoying.
>
> Andreas mentioned some arguments for the move, like having the same user
> base on all those collectors, the ability to move bugs between them, and
> a much better user interface than the sometimes odd collector UI.
>
> What's the consensus?
>
> jens
>
>
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> q/VIoce1d3mtw6gB5a6BbCg=
> =WQrO
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf
>
> See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

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jens at dataflake

Sep 21, 2007, 9:11 AM

Post #15 of 16 (1773 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

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On 21 Sep 2007, at 17:44, Andreas Jung wrote:

> We are currently working on the migration of the Zope 2 bugtracker.
> Jim asked about the migration of the CMF bugtracker...the
> discussion on this list was pretty much undecided...anyone of the
> CMF core developers should say yes or no. I don't care much about
> the CMF tracker....it's basically your decision.

The earlier discussion kind of derailed when it swung to the
suggestion to move the CMF collector into a trac-based setup already
used by Plone, and no consensus was reached either way.

I definitely know I don't want trac - I've been using it extensively
for a project I am working on and hate the way it handles email to
the people who are involved in an issue, and it also doesn't put the
full issue "conversation" into the notification emails, so you're
forced to open a web browser and look it up.

Since there is no strong vote either way I'll go out on a limb and
say let's just keep the situation as it is right now and stick with
zope.org.

jens

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_______________________________________________
Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF [at] lists
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf

See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests

lists at zopyx

Sep 21, 2007, 9:14 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1772 views)
Permalink

Re: CMF collector on Launchpad? [In reply to]

--On 21. September 2007 18:11:33 +0200 Jens Vagelpohl <jens [at] dataflake>
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> On 21 Sep 2007, at 17:44, Andreas Jung wrote:
>
>> We are currently working on the migration of the Zope 2 bugtracker.
>> Jim asked about the migration of the CMF bugtracker...the
>> discussion on this list was pretty much undecided...anyone of the
>> CMF core developers should say yes or no. I don't care much about
>> the CMF tracker....it's basically your decision.
>
> The earlier discussion kind of derailed when it swung to the suggestion
> to move the CMF collector into a trac-based setup already used by Plone,
> and no consensus was reached either way.
>
> I definitely know I don't want trac - I've been using it extensively for
> a project I am working on and hate the way it handles email to the people
> who are involved in an issue, and it also doesn't put the full issue
> "conversation" into the notification emails, so you're forced to open a
> web browser and look it up.
>
> Since there is no strong vote either way I'll go out on a limb and say
> let's just keep the situation as it is right now and stick with zope.org.

Point taken...less work for Jim :-)

Tnx,
Andreas

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