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mario at slackverse

Mar 20, 2012, 2:58 PM

Post #1 of 9 (523 views)
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xend future

Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
porting all my scripts over to libvirt?

Thanks in advance,
mario

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Ian.Campbell at citrix

Mar 21, 2012, 2:49 AM

Post #2 of 9 (464 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:58 +0000, Mario wrote:
> Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
> next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
> XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
> example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
> porting all my scripts over to libvirt?

The best options for replacing xend here are either libvirt/virtd or
xapi.

I guess you already know about libvirt.

The XML-RPC interface exposed by xapi is a descendant of that used by
xend, although I'm not sure how much they have in common nowadays. Might
potentially make porting somewhat simple I guess (just a guess though).

You can get xapi either via the traditional XCP route or it is also now
available in Debian and Ubuntu as a result of project Kronos. Project
Zeus[2] is in progress to add it to Fedora etc.

Ian.

[0] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XCP_Introduction
[1] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Kronos
[2] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Zeus_Fedora_Spec



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mario at slackverse

Mar 21, 2012, 4:08 AM

Post #3 of 9 (458 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On 03/21/2012 10:49 AM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:58 +0000, Mario wrote:
>> Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
>> next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
>> XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
>> example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
>> porting all my scripts over to libvirt?
>
> The best options for replacing xend here are either libvirt/virtd or
> xapi.
>
> I guess you already know about libvirt.
>
> The XML-RPC interface exposed by xapi is a descendant of that used by
> xend, although I'm not sure how much they have in common nowadays. Might
> potentially make porting somewhat simple I guess (just a guess though).
>
> You can get xapi either via the traditional XCP route or it is also now
> available in Debian and Ubuntu as a result of project Kronos. Project
> Zeus[2] is in progress to add it to Fedora etc.
>
> Ian.
>
> [0] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XCP_Introduction
> [1] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Kronos
> [2] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Zeus_Fedora_Spec
>
>

Well, I would usualy consider Xapi since it's directly related to Xen,
however, because it is "distro-locked" in such a way that there has to
be a fork per distro doesn't really seem like the right choice to me. I
suppose it has to be like that if its just a hack to make XCP work on
classic distro's? Or am I mistaken?

mario

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Ian.Campbell at citrix

Mar 21, 2012, 4:16 AM

Post #4 of 9 (465 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 11:08 +0000, Mario wrote:
> On 03/21/2012 10:49 AM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> > On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:58 +0000, Mario wrote:
> >> Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
> >> next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
> >> XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
> >> example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
> >> porting all my scripts over to libvirt?
> >
> > The best options for replacing xend here are either libvirt/virtd or
> > xapi.
> >
> > I guess you already know about libvirt.
> >
> > The XML-RPC interface exposed by xapi is a descendant of that used by
> > xend, although I'm not sure how much they have in common nowadays. Might
> > potentially make porting somewhat simple I guess (just a guess though).
> >
> > You can get xapi either via the traditional XCP route or it is also now
> > available in Debian and Ubuntu as a result of project Kronos. Project
> > Zeus[2] is in progress to add it to Fedora etc.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> > [0] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XCP_Introduction
> > [1] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Kronos
> > [2] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Zeus_Fedora_Spec
> >
> >
>
> Well, I would usualy consider Xapi since it's directly related to Xen,
> however, because it is "distro-locked" in such a way that there has to
> be a fork per distro doesn't really seem like the right choice to me. I
> suppose it has to be like that if its just a hack to make XCP work on
> classic distro's? Or am I mistaken?

The aim of Kronos and Zeus is to make XAPI available as a proper package
on various distros, there is no fork -- only effort to package things
for the particular distro packaging formats, which is normal for any
software -- or hack involved.

Part of Kronos has necessarily involved changes to the xapi side to make
it less entangled with XCP and therefore usable in a generic environment
(i.e. resolving the "distro-lock" which you refer to), this has
obviously made Zeus a fair bit easier.

Ian.


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mario at slackverse

Mar 21, 2012, 4:25 AM

Post #5 of 9 (458 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On 03/21/2012 12:16 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 11:08 +0000, Mario wrote:
>> On 03/21/2012 10:49 AM, Ian Campbell wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:58 +0000, Mario wrote:
>>>> Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
>>>> next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
>>>> XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
>>>> example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
>>>> porting all my scripts over to libvirt?
>>>
>>> The best options for replacing xend here are either libvirt/virtd or
>>> xapi.
>>>
>>> I guess you already know about libvirt.
>>>
>>> The XML-RPC interface exposed by xapi is a descendant of that used by
>>> xend, although I'm not sure how much they have in common nowadays. Might
>>> potentially make porting somewhat simple I guess (just a guess though).
>>>
>>> You can get xapi either via the traditional XCP route or it is also now
>>> available in Debian and Ubuntu as a result of project Kronos. Project
>>> Zeus[2] is in progress to add it to Fedora etc.
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>> [0] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XCP_Introduction
>>> [1] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Kronos
>>> [2] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Zeus_Fedora_Spec
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, I would usualy consider Xapi since it's directly related to Xen,
>> however, because it is "distro-locked" in such a way that there has to
>> be a fork per distro doesn't really seem like the right choice to me. I
>> suppose it has to be like that if its just a hack to make XCP work on
>> classic distro's? Or am I mistaken?
>
> The aim of Kronos and Zeus is to make XAPI available as a proper package
> on various distros, there is no fork -- only effort to package things
> for the particular distro packaging formats, which is normal for any
> software -- or hack involved.
>
> Part of Kronos has necessarily involved changes to the xapi side to make
> it less entangled with XCP and therefore usable in a generic environment
> (i.e. resolving the "distro-lock" which you refer to), this has
> obviously made Zeus a fair bit easier.
>
> Ian.
>

In that case, I am interested in making a package for yet another
distribution, and instead of making up yet another name and doing it all
from scratch (if its even possible), which of the two would be a better
choice to follow? Which of the two is more generic? Does having Zeus
project ensure that Kronos will stay active, or is Zeus not dependant on
Kronos development, etc etc :-)
Any info I can get, would help alot.

Thanks,
mario

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Ian.Campbell at citrix

Mar 21, 2012, 4:32 AM

Post #6 of 9 (468 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 11:25 +0000, Mario wrote:
> On 03/21/2012 12:16 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 11:08 +0000, Mario wrote:
> >> On 03/21/2012 10:49 AM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:58 +0000, Mario wrote:
> >>>> Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
> >>>> next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
> >>>> XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
> >>>> example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
> >>>> porting all my scripts over to libvirt?
> >>>
> >>> The best options for replacing xend here are either libvirt/virtd or
> >>> xapi.
> >>>
> >>> I guess you already know about libvirt.
> >>>
> >>> The XML-RPC interface exposed by xapi is a descendant of that used by
> >>> xend, although I'm not sure how much they have in common nowadays. Might
> >>> potentially make porting somewhat simple I guess (just a guess though).
> >>>
> >>> You can get xapi either via the traditional XCP route or it is also now
> >>> available in Debian and Ubuntu as a result of project Kronos. Project
> >>> Zeus[2] is in progress to add it to Fedora etc.
> >>>
> >>> Ian.
> >>>
> >>> [0] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XCP_Introduction
> >>> [1] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Kronos
> >>> [2] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Zeus_Fedora_Spec
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, I would usualy consider Xapi since it's directly related to Xen,
> >> however, because it is "distro-locked" in such a way that there has to
> >> be a fork per distro doesn't really seem like the right choice to me. I
> >> suppose it has to be like that if its just a hack to make XCP work on
> >> classic distro's? Or am I mistaken?
> >
> > The aim of Kronos and Zeus is to make XAPI available as a proper package
> > on various distros, there is no fork -- only effort to package things
> > for the particular distro packaging formats, which is normal for any
> > software -- or hack involved.
> >
> > Part of Kronos has necessarily involved changes to the xapi side to make
> > it less entangled with XCP and therefore usable in a generic environment
> > (i.e. resolving the "distro-lock" which you refer to), this has
> > obviously made Zeus a fair bit easier.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
>
> In that case, I am interested in making a package for yet another
> distribution, and instead of making up yet another name and doing it all
> from scratch (if its even possible), which of the two would be a better
> choice to follow? Which of the two is more generic? Does having Zeus
> project ensure that Kronos will stay active, or is Zeus not dependant on
> Kronos development, etc etc :-)

Which distro? CCing Mike who has been heavily involved with both Kronos
and Zeus (I'm just an outside observer).

AFAIK the disentanglement aspect arising from both Kronos and Zeus are
resulting in patches which are being committed to the upstream xapi code
base. Unless your distro happens to use .deb (Kronos) or .rpm (Zeus)
packages then probably only this upstream aspect is useful to you,
otherwise the appropriate project could perhaps serve as a starting
point to apply the necessary distro specific policies to.

Ian.

> Any info I can get, would help alot.
>
> Thanks,
> mario



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mario at slackverse

Mar 21, 2012, 4:55 AM

Post #7 of 9 (456 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On 03/21/2012 12:32 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 11:25 +0000, Mario wrote:
>> On 03/21/2012 12:16 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2012-03-21 at 11:08 +0000, Mario wrote:
>>>> On 03/21/2012 10:49 AM, Ian Campbell wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 21:58 +0000, Mario wrote:
>>>>>> Hey everyone, I was wondering, since xend will finaly be removed in the
>>>>>> next major release, what will the future be like for us who use its
>>>>>> XML-RPC features? Is there going to be some other way to do it, for
>>>>>> example adding xml-rpc support into libxl, or should I simply start
>>>>>> porting all my scripts over to libvirt?
>>>>>
>>>>> The best options for replacing xend here are either libvirt/virtd or
>>>>> xapi.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you already know about libvirt.
>>>>>
>>>>> The XML-RPC interface exposed by xapi is a descendant of that used by
>>>>> xend, although I'm not sure how much they have in common nowadays. Might
>>>>> potentially make porting somewhat simple I guess (just a guess though).
>>>>>
>>>>> You can get xapi either via the traditional XCP route or it is also now
>>>>> available in Debian and Ubuntu as a result of project Kronos. Project
>>>>> Zeus[2] is in progress to add it to Fedora etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian.
>>>>>
>>>>> [0] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/XCP_Introduction
>>>>> [1] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Kronos
>>>>> [2] http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Project_Zeus_Fedora_Spec
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I would usualy consider Xapi since it's directly related to Xen,
>>>> however, because it is "distro-locked" in such a way that there has to
>>>> be a fork per distro doesn't really seem like the right choice to me. I
>>>> suppose it has to be like that if its just a hack to make XCP work on
>>>> classic distro's? Or am I mistaken?
>>>
>>> The aim of Kronos and Zeus is to make XAPI available as a proper package
>>> on various distros, there is no fork -- only effort to package things
>>> for the particular distro packaging formats, which is normal for any
>>> software -- or hack involved.
>>>
>>> Part of Kronos has necessarily involved changes to the xapi side to make
>>> it less entangled with XCP and therefore usable in a generic environment
>>> (i.e. resolving the "distro-lock" which you refer to), this has
>>> obviously made Zeus a fair bit easier.
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>
>> In that case, I am interested in making a package for yet another
>> distribution, and instead of making up yet another name and doing it all
>> from scratch (if its even possible), which of the two would be a better
>> choice to follow? Which of the two is more generic? Does having Zeus
>> project ensure that Kronos will stay active, or is Zeus not dependant on
>> Kronos development, etc etc :-)
>
> Which distro? CCing Mike who has been heavily involved with both Kronos
> and Zeus (I'm just an outside observer).
>
> AFAIK the disentanglement aspect arising from both Kronos and Zeus are
> resulting in patches which are being committed to the upstream xapi code
> base. Unless your distro happens to use .deb (Kronos) or .rpm (Zeus)
> packages then probably only this upstream aspect is useful to you,
> otherwise the appropriate project could perhaps serve as a starting
> point to apply the necessary distro specific policies to.
>
> Ian.
>
>> Any info I can get, would help alot.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> mario
>
>

Distro in question is Slackware, I already maintain a script for
building a Xen package for it, so it would make sense to try and hammer
this one in aswell if at all possible. Slackware can install rpm, and
there is also a tool for converting deb packages, but it would be much
better if I could do it from clean sources, instead of repackaging
another distros cruft.
Is there a place for "vanilla" xapi source I could download and try
building?

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mike.mcclurg at citrix

Mar 22, 2012, 5:02 AM

Post #8 of 9 (447 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On 21/03/12 11:25, Mario wrote:
> On 03/21/2012 12:16 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
>> The aim of Kronos and Zeus is to make XAPI available as a proper package
>> on various distros, there is no fork -- only effort to package things
>> for the particular distro packaging formats, which is normal for any
>> software -- or hack involved.
>>
<snip>
>> Ian.
>>
>
> In that case, I am interested in making a package for yet another
> distribution, and instead of making up yet another name and doing it all
> from scratch (if its even possible), which of the two would be a better
> choice to follow? Which of the two is more generic? Does having Zeus
> project ensure that Kronos will stay active, or is Zeus not dependant on
> Kronos development, etc etc :-)
> Any info I can get, would help alot.
>
> Thanks,
> mario

Hi Mario,

Glad to hear that you're interested in packaging Xapi! Just to clarify,
Zeus isn't "starting from scratch," but instead is taking the work that
we did with Kronos and building packages that will work on Fedora and
CentOS. To get Xapi working on Debian, we mostly had to patch Xapi so
that it works with upstream Linux and Xen. We're going to be upstreaming
as many of those patches as possible, so the difference between Xapi on
Debian and Xapi on XCP will go down over time.

If you want to build Xapi for Slackware, you should take a look at the
Xapi source code on GitHub. In each of the source repositories that Xapi
depends on, there is a debian branch, which contains all the patches we
wrote to get Xapi and it's dependencies running. Zeus will make use of
these patches too.

Hope that helps!

Mike

https://github.com/xen-org/xen-api

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mario at slackverse

Mar 25, 2012, 4:17 AM

Post #9 of 9 (436 views)
Permalink
Re: xend future [In reply to]

On 03/22/2012 01:02 PM, Mike McClurg wrote:
> On 21/03/12 11:25, Mario wrote:
>> On 03/21/2012 12:16 PM, Ian Campbell wrote:
>>> The aim of Kronos and Zeus is to make XAPI available as a proper package
>>> on various distros, there is no fork -- only effort to package things
>>> for the particular distro packaging formats, which is normal for any
>>> software -- or hack involved.
>>>
> <snip>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>
>> In that case, I am interested in making a package for yet another
>> distribution, and instead of making up yet another name and doing it all
>> from scratch (if its even possible), which of the two would be a better
>> choice to follow? Which of the two is more generic? Does having Zeus
>> project ensure that Kronos will stay active, or is Zeus not dependant on
>> Kronos development, etc etc :-)
>> Any info I can get, would help alot.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> mario
>
> Hi Mario,
>
> Glad to hear that you're interested in packaging Xapi! Just to clarify,
> Zeus isn't "starting from scratch," but instead is taking the work that
> we did with Kronos and building packages that will work on Fedora and
> CentOS. To get Xapi working on Debian, we mostly had to patch Xapi so
> that it works with upstream Linux and Xen. We're going to be upstreaming
> as many of those patches as possible, so the difference between Xapi on
> Debian and Xapi on XCP will go down over time.
>
> If you want to build Xapi for Slackware, you should take a look at the
> Xapi source code on GitHub. In each of the source repositories that Xapi
> depends on, there is a debian branch, which contains all the patches we
> wrote to get Xapi and it's dependencies running. Zeus will make use of
> these patches too.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Mike
>
> https://github.com/xen-org/xen-api

Ok thanks, unfortunatly some of the ocaml dependancies only come with
unstable xen (for example xenctrl), so I probably can't use this in
production untill the next major release. Along the way I have noticed
that another ocaml dependancy "type-conv" is not being installed as
such, instead it installs as "type_conv" (notice the underscore) under
/usr/lib*/ocaml tree. I am unsure if this is how its supposed to be, or
if its a bug, but for now I have it symlinked, type_conv to type-conv.
Is there a preffered way to report issues to, a mailing list or irc
channel for example?

mario

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