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Mailing list search changes

 

 

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brion at pobox

Nov 2, 2006, 5:47 AM

Post #1 of 11 (1819 views)
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Mailing list search changes

I'm setting up htdig search integration for the mailing lists; once
that's working, list archives for all remaining lists will be forbidden
from robots.txt.

This should hopefully cut down on requests to remove items from the list
archives due to someone's name showing up on Google from posting a
message to a public list.


The mail server will be briefly shut down while upgrading.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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brion at pobox

Nov 2, 2006, 6:38 AM

Post #2 of 11 (1737 views)
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Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Brion Vibber wrote:
> I'm setting up htdig search integration for the mailing lists; once
> that's working, list archives for all remaining lists will be forbidden
> from robots.txt.
>
> This should hopefully cut down on requests to remove items from the list
> archives due to someone's name showing up on Google from posting a
> message to a public list.
>
>
> The mail server will be briefly shut down while upgrading.

Mail is back online. Searching should be available after indexes are
built, if all goes well.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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brion at pobox

Nov 2, 2006, 9:01 AM

Post #3 of 11 (1755 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Brion Vibber wrote:
> Brion Vibber wrote:
>> I'm setting up htdig search integration for the mailing lists; once
>> that's working, list archives for all remaining lists will be forbidden
>> from robots.txt.
>>
>> This should hopefully cut down on requests to remove items from the list
>> archives due to someone's name showing up on Google from posting a
>> message to a public list.
>>
> Mail is back online. Searching should be available after indexes are
> built, if all goes well.

Seems to more or less work now. Not all lists are indexed yet, so have
patience; lists will be reindexed nightly.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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travis at wikihow

Nov 2, 2006, 3:52 PM

Post #4 of 11 (1739 views)
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Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Now, only if you could remove the mailing list submissions from those
third party mirrors.... :)

Travis


On 11/2/06, Brion Vibber <brion [at] pobox> wrote:
> I'm setting up htdig search integration for the mailing lists; once
> that's working, list archives for all remaining lists will be forbidden
> from robots.txt.
>
> This should hopefully cut down on requests to remove items from the list
> archives due to someone's name showing up on Google from posting a
> message to a public list.
>
>
> The mail server will be briefly shut down while upgrading.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] wikimedia
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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timwi at gmx

Nov 3, 2006, 1:54 PM

Post #5 of 11 (1733 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Brion Vibber wrote:
> I'm setting up htdig search integration for the mailing lists; once
> that's working, list archives for all remaining lists will be forbidden
> from robots.txt.
>
> This should hopefully cut down on requests to remove items from the list
> archives due to someone's name showing up on Google from posting a
> message to a public list.

I don't understand. Why don't you just remove the e-mail addresses from
the archives? You've now rendered Google useless for searching the
mailing lists, and I'm sure you know that nothing else achieves its
level of usefulness...

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nickpj at gmail

Nov 3, 2006, 3:43 PM

Post #6 of 11 (1728 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

> > I'm setting up htdig search integration for the mailing lists; once
> > that's working, list archives for all remaining lists will be forbidden
> > from robots.txt.
> >
> > This should hopefully cut down on requests to remove items from the list
> > archives due to someone's name showing up on Google from posting a
> > message to a public list.
>
> I don't understand. Why don't you just remove the e-mail addresses from
> the archives? You've now rendered Google useless for searching the
> mailing lists, and I'm sure you know that nothing else achieves its
> level of usefulness...

I'm not sure it's the email address that's the problem.

If I recall correctly, at least one of the requests was from someone ("user-A") who used their real name and their Wikipedia
username together (just once) in an email to one of the mailing lists.

This then allowed another Wikipedia user ("user-B"), who had developed a grudge against user-A, and who had been blocked on the
Wikipedia, to use Google to find the real name of user-A, whereas previously they only knew their username.

User-B then posted on their personal web site various things attacking user-A, using user-A's real name. As a result, someone
googling user-A's name would get various results, some of which were effectively slandering user-A.

User-A was then able to use various legal avenues to get user-B to remove this stuff from their website.

However, user-A also requested that the particular message (which allowed the connection between their Wikipedia name & their real
name) be deleted from the mailing list archives (or made so that no search engine would index it), to try and prevent the same thing
ever happening to them again.

There may be other reasons too, but at least in this case, it wasn't the email address that was the issue, rather it was the mailing
list serving as username <--> real name lookup table.

All the best,
Nick.

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timwi at gmx

Nov 3, 2006, 4:39 PM

Post #7 of 11 (1740 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Nick Jenkins wrote:
>
> If I recall correctly, at least one of the requests was from someone
> ("user-A") who used their real name and their Wikipedia username
> together (just once) in an email to one of the mailing lists.

Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
are we penalised for it?

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gmane at kennel17

Nov 3, 2006, 6:00 PM

Post #8 of 11 (1746 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

"Timwi" <timwi [at] gmx> wrote in message
news:eigng9$boa$1 [at] sea
> Nick Jenkins wrote:
> >
> > If I recall correctly, at least one of the requests was from someone
> > ("user-A") who used their real name and their Wikipedia username
> > together (just once) in an email to one of the mailing lists.
>
> Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
> regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
> Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
> are we penalised for it?

I agree. People should learn to take responsibility for their actions.
Mailing lists like this are permanent and public records. Newsgroups are
permanent and public records. Forums are permanent and public records.
It's not our fault if someone decided to post something they shouldn't have.
If I was holding a press conference and accidentally mentioned something I
shouldn't have I would have no right to tell the journalists not to publish
it, and they most defenitely ignore me if I did!

The very most that should be done is to edit the database/files/wherever the
post is stored and XXX out the offending text.

- Mark Clements (HappyDog)



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brion at pobox

Nov 4, 2006, 6:40 AM

Post #9 of 11 (1746 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Timwi wrote:
> Nick Jenkins wrote:
>> If I recall correctly, at least one of the requests was from someone
>> ("user-A") who used their real name and their Wikipedia username
>> together (just once) in an email to one of the mailing lists.
>
> Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
> regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
> Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
> are we penalised for it?

After a few dozen of those, yeah. I'm tired of fighting with people over
stupid shit like that.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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Platonides at gmail

Nov 5, 2006, 2:38 PM

Post #10 of 11 (1742 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

> Timwi wrote:
>> Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
>> regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
>> Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
>> are we penalised for it?
>
> After a few dozen of those, yeah. I'm tired of fighting with people over
> stupid shit like that.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

It's the mail program's field 'User name' + using the same email for
everything what 'leaks' information on the from field. As the user haven't
typed on the message it's a bit hidden ;-)



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timwi at gmx

Nov 6, 2006, 5:16 AM

Post #11 of 11 (1732 views)
Permalink
Re: Mailing list search changes [In reply to]

Brion Vibber wrote:
> Timwi wrote:
>
>>Nick Jenkins wrote:
>>
>>>If I recall correctly, at least one of the requests was from someone
>>>("user-A") who used their real name and their Wikipedia username
>>>together (just once) in an email to one of the mailing lists.
>>
>>Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
>>regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
>>Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
>>are we penalised for it?
>
> After a few dozen of those, yeah. I'm tired of fighting with people over
> stupid shit like that.

So don't. Ignore them. Instead, you're giving in to an unreasonable
request from them.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I hope you'll /still/ receive
complaints that things people posted are visible publicly, even if it's
not googlable. Then hopefully you'll reinstate Google's indexing.

Timwi

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