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Specialised wiki editor?

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stevage at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:04 PM

Post #1 of 9 (861 views)
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Specialised wiki editor?

Hi all,
Two questions: Do any decent editing tools exist, specialised for
editing wikis, and in particular, mediawiki wikis. Such a thing would
have to be capable of browsing, but let you do editing in some kind of
more sophisticated, enhanced way - whatever that is.

Secondly, if such a thing doesn't exist (possible since I haven't
heard of one), are there any real obstacles to it happening? Why has
all the discussion of WYSIWYG wiki editing been focused on server-side
implementations. With the exception of querying the database, why
can't all this be implemented locally, allowing a possibly richer user
experience by using native Windows (for example :)) calls, rather than
the limitations of javascript.

Has no one tried?

Steve
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jra at baylink

Aug 16, 2006, 1:07 PM

Post #2 of 9 (811 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 16, 2006 at 10:04:30PM +0200, Steve Bennett wrote:
> Two questions: Do any decent editing tools exist, specialised for
> editing wikis, and in particular, mediawiki wikis. Such a thing would
> have to be capable of browsing, but let you do editing in some kind of
> more sophisticated, enhanced way - whatever that is.
>
> Secondly, if such a thing doesn't exist (possible since I haven't
> heard of one), are there any real obstacles to it happening? Why has
> all the discussion of WYSIWYG wiki editing been focused on server-side
> implementations. With the exception of querying the database, why
> can't all this be implemented locally, allowing a possibly richer user
> experience by using native Windows (for example :)) calls, rather than
> the limitations of javascript.

It sounds as if you do *not* mean "embedded in a browser".

Do you, in fact, not mean that?

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth jra [at] baylink
Designer Baylink RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates The Things I Think '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

The Internet: We paved paradise, and put up a snarking lot.
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robchur at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:11 PM

Post #3 of 9 (820 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On 16/08/06, Steve Bennett <stevage [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Two questions: Do any decent editing tools exist, specialised for
> editing wikis, and in particular, mediawiki wikis. Such a thing would
> have to be capable of browsing, but let you do editing in some kind of
> more sophisticated, enhanced way - whatever that is.
>
> Secondly, if such a thing doesn't exist (possible since I haven't
> heard of one), are there any real obstacles to it happening? Why has
> all the discussion of WYSIWYG wiki editing been focused on server-side
> implementations. With the exception of querying the database, why
> can't all this be implemented locally, allowing a possibly richer user
> experience by using native Windows (for example :)) calls, rather than
> the limitations of javascript.

One of the ideas I had a few months ago was to expand the external
editing concept and make it more useful. Erik's initial implementation
was good enough, but it could be made much better. I envisioned
multiple editors spanning various platforms, interacting with
Wikipedia via a standardised editing API.

That idea is still in the depths of my skull. But like many ideas,
that's where it's stayed. I would still love to see a nice
Windows-based editor, and then we can port something to Unix and the
Mac.

Rob Church
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stevage at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:22 PM

Post #4 of 9 (821 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On 8/16/06, Jay R. Ashworth <jra [at] baylink> wrote:
> It sounds as if you do *not* mean "embedded in a browser".
>
> Do you, in fact, not mean that?

I guess I'm probably thinking something external to a browser - but
almost certainly with browsing capabilities. However, much of what I'm
picturing could possibly be carried out with some sort of enhanced
browser, even using a lot of greasemonkey, for instance.

So, yeah your three possibilities would be:
- embedded in a browser, using javascript or something similar to
provide more power
- extending a browser, say by using mozilla to produce a custom wikibrowser
- embedding a browser, using either a native windows (or possibly java
based cross-platform windowy thing) application that interacts
directly with the user, but also embeds some kind of browser component
to render HTML and allow the user to, well, browse.

If that doesn't answer the question I'll try again. I'm trying to
avoid imposing a solution to the general problem...

Steve
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stevage at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:23 PM

Post #5 of 9 (820 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On 8/16/06, Rob Church <robchur [at] gmail> wrote:
> One of the ideas I had a few months ago was to expand the external
> editing concept and make it more useful. Erik's initial implementation
> was good enough, but it could be made much better. I envisioned
> multiple editors spanning various platforms, interacting with
> Wikipedia via a standardised editing API.

Where is Erik's implementation? Do you have any notes, plans, design
etc anywhere?

Steve
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ron.hall at mcgill

Aug 16, 2006, 1:26 PM

Post #6 of 9 (828 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

>
> - embedded in a browser, using javascript or something similar to
> provide more power
>
I don't know if you were soliciting comments or not, but I suspect
that the first alternative is likely the most attractive - IMO, but
don't
even begin to ask me how one actually builds such a beastie.

r

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robchur at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:28 PM

Post #7 of 9 (822 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On 16/08/06, Steve Bennett <stevage [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 8/16/06, Rob Church <robchur [at] gmail> wrote:
> > One of the ideas I had a few months ago was to expand the external
> > editing concept and make it more useful. Erik's initial implementation
> > was good enough, but it could be made much better. I envisioned
> > multiple editors spanning various platforms, interacting with
> > Wikipedia via a standardised editing API.
>
> Where is Erik's implementation? Do you have any notes, plans, design
> etc anywhere?

The current external editing interface is Erik's implementation. A
sample script which uses it can be found in Subversion;
trunk/extensions/ee.

More of the conflict detection and handling need to be dealt with
server-side; client applications implementing a standard editing API
should be able to do so without too much duplication of logic.

Rob Church
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stevage at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:30 PM

Post #8 of 9 (824 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On 8/16/06, Ron Hall <ron.hall [at] mcgill> wrote:
> I don't know if you were soliciting comments or not, but I suspect
> that the first alternative is likely the most attractive - IMO, but
> don't
> even begin to ask me how one actually builds such a beastie.

I'm definitely soliciting comments. Why is it more attractive?
Consider that the user would have to install an extension. And I
suspect that javascript can't do that much within an edit control.
Perhaps it could replace the edit control by something different
altogether? Someone correct me?

>From a couple of greasemonkey scripts I wrote, I found it's pretty
easy to manipulate elements of a webpage, moving stuff around and
adding new controls. But I don't think you can alter the way a button
behaves, for instance - it's just a button, and you get told when it
gets clicked on, released, or hovered over...but not sure how much
further you can go.

Steve
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stevage at gmail

Aug 16, 2006, 1:33 PM

Post #9 of 9 (824 views)
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Re: Specialised wiki editor? [In reply to]

On 8/16/06, Rob Church <robchur [at] gmail> wrote:
> The current external editing interface is Erik's implementation. A
> sample script which uses it can be found in Subversion;
> trunk/extensions/ee.

So we have an external editing interface just begging for an external
editor? I'm pleasantly surprised.

Steve
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