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GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

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dgerard at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 10:03 AM

Post #1 of 26 (116 views)
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GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again

Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
what we're doing wrong?

- d.

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greg at wikimedia

Aug 5, 2013, 10:25 AM

Post #2 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

<quote name="David Gerard" date="2013-08-05" time="18:03:53 +0100">
> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
> what we're doing wrong?

I got a report that my message to wikitech-ambassadors@ was sent to spam
last week, as well.

Just throwing out a datum.

Greg

--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| identi.ca: @greg A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

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yuvipanda at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 10:31 AM

Post #3 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).

/end-data-point

--
Yuvi Panda T
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psychoslave at culture-libre

Aug 5, 2013, 11:19 AM

Post #4 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :
> All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
> that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
>
> /end-data-point
>
>
Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)

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emijrp at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 11:45 AM

Post #5 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
wiki mailing lists too.

Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and
Google filter has learn it?

2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf <psychoslave [at] culture-libre>

> Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :
> > All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
> > that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
> >
> > /end-data-point
> >
> >
> Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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bawolff at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 11:51 AM

Post #6 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related...

--bawolff

On 8/5/13, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp [at] gmail> wrote:
> What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
> wiki mailing lists too.
>
> Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and
> Google filter has learn it?
>
>
> 2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf <psychoslave [at] culture-libre>
>
>> Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit :
>> > All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
>> > that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
>> >
>> > /end-data-point
>> >
>> >
>> Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
--
- Brian
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

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matma.rex at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 12:06 PM

Post #7 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:

> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
> what we're doing wrong?

I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me.

--
Matma Rex

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dgerard at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 12:07 PM

Post #8 of 26 (110 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On 5 August 2013 20:06, Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:

>> Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out
>> what we're doing wrong?

> I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to
> mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me.

Been affecting a pile of lists for me, so it's something in what we
send in the headers.

- d.

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overlordq at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 1:23 PM

Post #9 of 26 (101 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp [at] gmail
> wrote:

> What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
> wiki mailing lists too.
>
> Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and
> Google filter has learn it?
>
>
Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam,
Google prompts the user with something along the lines of "Do you wish to
unsubscribe rather than report as spam?"
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risker.wp at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 1:57 PM

Post #10 of 26 (101 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On 5 August 2013 16:23, OQ <overlordq [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <
> emijrp [at] gmail
> > wrote:
>
> > What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from
> > wiki mailing lists too.
> >
> > Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam
> and
> > Google filter has learn it?
> >
> >
> Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam,
> Google prompts the user with something along the lines of "Do you wish to
> unsubscribe rather than report as spam?"
>

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different
about that one.

Risker/Anne
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dgerard at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 2:15 PM

Post #11 of 26 (101 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail> wrote:

> Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different
> about that one.

Does anyone have a contact at GMail?

(I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme
last resort ...)

- d.

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overlordq at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 2:25 PM

Post #12 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail> wrote:

Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different
> about that one.
>

Hurm I stand corrected, I know it does this for some lists I've been
subscribed to, but not the WM lists, so *shrug*.[1]
The troubleshooter[2] does encourage SPF/DKIM, and if that fails to contact
them[3].

1 - http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html
2 - https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2696779?rd=1
3 - https://support.google.com/mail/contact/bulk_send
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cananian at wikimedia

Aug 5, 2013, 2:25 PM

Post #13 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

I recommend posters re-read bawolff's message:

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Brian Wolff <bawolff [at] gmail> wrote:

> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related...
>
> --bawolff

lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS. That is most likely
what is causing the email to be flagged.
--scott

--
(http://cscott.net)
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dgerard at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 2:32 PM

Post #14 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On 5 August 2013 22:25, C. Scott Ananian <cananian [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS. That is most likely
> what is causing the email to be flagged.

Is that easy or hard to fix?

(I can't work out how to get a list of email addresses for wikien-l,
to work out how many subscribers are on gmail. I know at one stage
*all* of the moderators were ... it's a popular service for good
reason.)

- d.

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ksnider at wikimedia

Aug 5, 2013, 2:57 PM

Post #15 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email).

Thanks.

--Ken.

On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
>> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
>> exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different
>> about that one.
>
>
> Does anyone have a contact at GMail?
>
> (I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme
> last resort ...)
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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cananian at wikimedia

Aug 5, 2013, 3:18 PM

Post #16 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider <ksnider [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the
> ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org
> email).
>

If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct (
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to
do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google
servers, AFAIK.)
--scott

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tim at tim-landscheidt

Aug 5, 2013, 4:02 PM

Post #17 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

"C. Scott Ananian" <cananian [at] wikimedia> wrote:

>> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the
>> ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org
>> email).

> If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct (
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to
> do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google
> servers, AFAIK.)

Just want to point that I am neither Brian Wolff nor would I
call the bug report a diagnosis :-) -- it's just a guess.

Greg asked
(cf. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556#c1):

| Can someone who has some of the emails that were marked as spam please pastebin
| the headers? We're working with a contact at Google now to diagnose. It is
| probably the SPF issue, but they haven't suggested it yet (they probably
| haven't gotten that far).

Tim

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z at mzmcbride

Aug 5, 2013, 4:10 PM

Post #18 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider <ksnider [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the
>> ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for
>>org email).
>
>If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct (
>https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to
>do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google
>servers, AFAIK.)

Tim L.'s diagnosis, rather, but indeed. As I understand it, this would be
a Wikimedia operations issue (setting an SPF record in Wikimedia's DNS
records for lists.wikimedia.org) and would fall to Ken and his team.

MZMcBride

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greg at wikimedia

Aug 5, 2013, 4:29 PM

Post #19 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

Just looping the list in on the status:

We're talking with a support person from Google, they've made a couple
of suggestions that I've forwarded to Ops (specifically SPF and DKIM).

They also asked for the headers of some of the messages, which you saw I
related to the bug. I sent them the one Alex shared.

I'll let the list know when I have a more solid answer (ie: "we're all
fixed" or "email hates us").

Greg

--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| identi.ca: @greg A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

Attachments:

signature.asc (0.82 KB)

wikiposta at gmail

Aug 5, 2013, 9:26 PM

Post #20 of 26 (100 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail>

>
> Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> exception of the checkuser mailing list.

CU-list is also deeply involved. :-(
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emijrp at gmail

Aug 6, 2013, 3:48 AM

Post #21 of 26 (98 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

Meanwhile you can fix the filters and add the option "do not send to spam
folder". I did it for all my wiki filters...

2013/8/6 Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail>

> 2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail>
>
> >
> > Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
> > affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> > exception of the checkuser mailing list.
>
>
> CU-list is also deeply involved. :-(
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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ladsgroup at gmail

Aug 7, 2013, 12:42 AM

Post #22 of 26 (81 views)
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Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

Same for me. I added a filter but I'm thinking about a better solution...

Best

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp [at] gmail
> wrote:

> Meanwhile you can fix the filters and add the option "do not send to spam
> folder". I did it for all my wiki filters...
>
>
> 2013/8/6 Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail>
>
> > 2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail>
> >
> > >
> > > Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
> > > affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
> > > exception of the checkuser mailing list.
> >
> >
> > CU-list is also deeply involved. :-(
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
Amir
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shizhao at gmail

Aug 7, 2013, 1:12 AM

Post #23 of 26 (81 views)
Permalink

Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

wikimedia-l, checkuser-l, wikitext-l and wikitech-l in spam, but just
the a email not in spam :D
Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/
My blog: http://shizhao.org
twitter: https://twitter.com/shizhao

[[zh:User:Shizhao]]

2013/8/6 Yuvi Panda <yuvipanda [at] gmail>:
> All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule
> that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me).
>
> /end-data-point
>
>
> --
> Yuvi Panda T
> http://yuvi.in/blog
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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tstarling at wikimedia

Aug 7, 2013, 6:18 AM

Post #24 of 26 (81 views)
Permalink

Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

Everyone who is affected by this should complain to Google. Make it
clear that it is a recent problem. It's better if the complaints come
from users than from outside.

-- Tim Starling

On 07/08/13 17:42, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
> Same for me. I added a filter but I'm thinking about a better solution...
>
> Best
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada <emijrp [at] gmail
>> wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile you can fix the filters and add the option "do not send to spam
>> folder". I did it for all my wiki filters...
>>
>>
>> 2013/8/6 Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail>
>>
>>> 2013/8/5 Risker <risker.wp [at] gmail>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is
>>>> affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible
>>>> exception of the checkuser mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> CU-list is also deeply involved. :-(
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>
>
>

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dgerard at gmail

Aug 7, 2013, 6:55 AM

Post #25 of 26 (77 views)
Permalink

Re: GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again [In reply to]

On 7 August 2013 14:18, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> Everyone who is affected by this should complain to Google. Make it
> clear that it is a recent problem. It's better if the complaints come
> from users than from outside.

Is there anywhere they're actually listening? That's really not
something Google is good at.

- d.

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