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sumanah at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 6:31 PM

Post #1 of 16 (756 views)
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whether to do Google Code-In

Last year we decided not to participate in Google Code-In
https://www.google-melange.com/gci/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2012/help_page
, an outreach program to help us get more 13-to-17-year-old
contributors. I outlined the reasons here:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-October/055937.html

This year, we are again eligible to apply to participate. I estimate
that we'd need about 2 organizational administrators and 21 mentors to
do it well. So I've opened signups at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In and explained what those
people would be committing to. If you want us to apply to participate
in GCI this winter, please comment on that page by November 1st. Thanks.

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

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tylerromeo at gmail

Oct 22, 2012, 10:53 PM

Post #2 of 16 (731 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

I think it's a cool idea, especially considering I'm still kicking myself
for not getting involved in open-source earlier. The real problem is
deciding what to have them work on.
*--*
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
Major in Computer Science
www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo [at] gmail



On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Sumana Harihareswara <sumanah [at] wikimedia
> wrote:

> Last year we decided not to participate in Google Code-In
>
> https://www.google-melange.com/gci/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2012/help_page
> , an outreach program to help us get more 13-to-17-year-old
> contributors. I outlined the reasons here:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-October/055937.html
>
> This year, we are again eligible to apply to participate. I estimate
> that we'd need about 2 organizational administrators and 21 mentors to
> do it well. So I've opened signups at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In and explained what those
> people would be committing to. If you want us to apply to participate
> in GCI this winter, please comment on that page by November 1st. Thanks.
>
> --
> Sumana Harihareswara
> Engineering Community Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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ori at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 11:35 PM

Post #3 of 16 (731 views)
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Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:

> I think it's a cool idea, especially considering I'm still kicking myself
> for not getting involved in open-source earlier. The real problem is
> deciding what to have them work on.

Lua templates?

It's Real Programming™; there's plenty of creativity involved; and even amateurish Lua code will be heaps better (heh) than the corresponding wikitext. There are also quite a lot of templates to convert, so the task could be easily divided among a large group of participants.


--
Ori Livneh
ori [at] wikimedia




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sumanah at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 11:51 PM

Post #4 of 16 (732 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On 10/22/2012 10:53 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
> I think it's a cool idea, especially considering I'm still kicking myself
> for not getting involved in open-source earlier. The real problem is
> deciding what to have them work on.

In my experience, it's pretty easy to find small tasks that new
volunteers can work on, and GCI allows organizations to offer a variety
of tasks of different types. The much harder problem is getting enough
committed mentors. Google demands "less than a 36 hour turnaround for
review of each completed task submitted by a student" - see
https://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIMentorInformation2012 .
Other projects participating in GCI have reported that this can be
burdensome.

Also: if you want to help teenagers get involved in open source, we have
teenagers *in the Wikimedia community already* whom you can mentor and
ask to do tasks. And if outreach is the goal, you can make a huge
long-term difference to teenagers in your city by teaching tutorials or
leading hackathons at local schools and community centers.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Tutorials has materials you can
pick up and use. And if you need funding to create events or attend
them, check out https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Participation:Support
and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Index . Google Code-In is
NOT our only way to get teens into open source and nurture them.

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

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quimgil at gmail

Oct 23, 2012, 9:07 AM

Post #5 of 16 (725 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On 10/22/2012 10:53 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
> I think it's a cool idea, especially considering I'm still kicking myself
> for not getting involved in open-source earlier. The real problem is
> deciding what to have them work on.

Features they can see running in their mobile devices? We have all the
buzzwords there: Android, iOS, HTML5, Javascript, PhoneGap, web app...

--
Quim

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mtraceur at member

Oct 25, 2012, 12:48 AM

Post #6 of 16 (718 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On 10/22/2012 06:31 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
> Last year we decided not to participate in Google Code-In
> https://www.google-melange.com/gci/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2012/help_page
> , an outreach program to help us get more 13-to-17-year-old
> contributors. I outlined the reasons here:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-October/055937.html
>
> This year, we are again eligible to apply to participate. I estimate
> that we'd need about 2 organizational administrators and 21 mentors to
> do it well. So I've opened signups at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In and explained what those
> people would be committing to. If you want us to apply to participate
> in GCI this winter, please comment on that page by November 1st. Thanks.

I wanted to ping the list again about this....our project and others
will really benefit from having new contributors, and the tech community
at large will benefit from the education we can help provide these
students. And of course, it means new community members and a generally
more informed public.

Please consider signing the list before the deadline, I'd really love to
see this program happen. I'm willing to help a lot, but I can't do it all!

Thanks,

--
Mark Holmquist
Software Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation
mtraceur [at] member
http://marktraceur.info

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Platonides at gmail

Oct 25, 2012, 9:44 AM

Post #7 of 16 (713 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On 23/10/12 08:35, Ori Livneh wrote:
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
>
>> I think it's a cool idea, especially considering I'm still kicking myself
>> for not getting involved in open-source earlier. The real problem is
>> deciding what to have them work on.
>
> Lua templates?
>
> It's Real Programming™; there's plenty of creativity involved; and even
> amateurish Lua code will be heaps better (heh) than the corresponding
> wikitext. There are also quite a lot of templates to convert, so the task
> could be easily divided among a large group of participants.


Do we know enough about propper Lua template coding *ourselves* ?

We can probably pick up that new language faster than them, but I
wouldn't feel too comfortable mentoring something I don't really know about.

I have in the past impressed some people where I was figuring out
things on the fly (“try this”, “write len()”, “maybe it's called
length?”...) yet it's not the ideal situation, special with random
participants.

An issue I haven't clarified is the size of each task. There's a mention
on how tasks have deadlines attached, but not what's the normal deadline
for each task.
A certificate for one task and a T-shirt for three tasks make it look
like they would be “big”, even though my first impression was that they
would be small. Also, we must have enough tasks for during 1.5 months. I
don't know how many people would sign up for our tasks, but we shouldn't
get out of tasks in the first week (or we may, and finish the mentors
labour...). We can always reuse tasks in some hackaton, if they were too
much. My concern is in making up many tasks.


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Platonides at gmail

Oct 25, 2012, 9:55 AM

Post #8 of 16 (714 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

I looked at randmly at some tasks from last year:
http://www.google-melange.com/gci/homepage/google/gci2011

Some were given 4h, 24h, 48h or 96h. I guess that tasks of 24h would be
a good estimate to plan for 24h (without assuming they will be
programming non-stop, of course :).

Some tasks were quite open, such as "Find and report a bug in $product"
or "Find a security vulnerability (a file that crashes the program)".
I'm not sure if asking for something we don't know if it's doable is
appropiate, though. OTOH they allow multiple instances of the same task.
Others like update $PROGRAM to use this new API doesn't seem to have
been successful. I don't think tasks of that level are appropiate (we
could place a few, but without an expectation of being solved by the
average teenager).

A good thing is that I don't think that reviewing a task will take
longer than 5-10 minutes. So it shouldn't be a burden on the mentors.
Seems a workflow like the one used on OTRS. The key is having a big pool
of developers so a few ones don't need to review all of them.

An easy way to get articles would be in the documentation front, asking
for a couple of wiki pages documenting something, a tutorial (with
screenshots) on installing MediaWiki... Creating X new translations for
MediaWiki or its extensions on translatewiki would also be an easy way
of producing tasks.



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niklas.laxstrom at gmail

Oct 25, 2012, 11:26 AM

Post #9 of 16 (715 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On 25 October 2012 19:55, Platonides <Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:

> An easy way to get articles would be in the documentation front, asking
> for a couple of wiki pages documenting something, a tutorial (with
> screenshots) on installing MediaWiki... Creating X new translations for
> MediaWiki or its extensions on translatewiki would also be an easy way
> of producing tasks.

Translation tasks are not allowed as far as I remember, but some open
support tasks at translatewiki.net could be suitable.

Perhaps 'document X messages' would be allowed. That could include
taking screenshots and stuff.
-Niklas

--
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matma.rex at gmail

Oct 25, 2012, 11:29 AM

Post #10 of 16 (714 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

2012/10/25 Niklas Laxström <niklas.laxstrom [at] gmail>:
> Translation tasks are not allowed as far as I remember, but some open
> support tasks at translatewiki.net could be suitable.

They were allowed last year; did it change? (I took part in GCI last
year as a student, but I'm too old now :( )

-- Matma Rex

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aklapper at wikimedia

Oct 25, 2012, 11:46 AM

Post #11 of 16 (714 views)
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Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 20:29 +0200, Bartosz Dziewoński wrote:
> 2012/10/25 Niklas Laxström <niklas.laxstrom [at] gmail>:
> > Translation tasks are not allowed as far as I remember, but some open
> > support tasks at translatewiki.net could be suitable.
>
> They were allowed last year; did it change?

Yes, see
http://code.google.com/p/google-code-in/wiki/GCIMentorInformation2012

andre
--
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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strainu10 at gmail

Oct 25, 2012, 11:47 AM

Post #12 of 16 (714 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

2012/10/25 Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex [at] gmail>:
> 2012/10/25 Niklas Laxström <niklas.laxstrom [at] gmail>:
>> Translation tasks are not allowed as far as I remember, but some open
>> support tasks at translatewiki.net could be suitable.
>
> They were allowed last year; did it change? (I took part in GCI last
> year as a student, but I'm too old now :( )

I mentored for openSUSE last year and we had some translation tasks,
so they should be OK if rules haven't changed.

Strainu

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lydia.pintscher at wikimedia

Oct 25, 2012, 1:50 PM

Post #13 of 16 (713 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Platonides <Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:
> An issue I haven't clarified is the size of each task. There's a mention
> on how tasks have deadlines attached, but not what's the normal deadline
> for each task.
> A certificate for one task and a T-shirt for three tasks make it look
> like they would be “big”, even though my first impression was that they
> would be small. Also, we must have enough tasks for during 1.5 months. I
> don't know how many people would sign up for our tasks, but we shouldn't
> get out of tasks in the first week (or we may, and finish the mentors
> labour...). We can always reuse tasks in some hackaton, if they were too
> much. My concern is in making up many tasks.

The tasks should take a "normal" contributor of the project about 2
hours. The kids can of course take more than that. It's not a hard
rule but a guideline to give you some idea of what Google would like
to see.


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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lydia.pintscher at wikimedia

Oct 25, 2012, 1:50 PM

Post #14 of 16 (714 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Strainu <strainu10 [at] gmail> wrote:
> I mentored for openSUSE last year and we had some translation tasks,
> so they should be OK if rules haven't changed.

The rules changed. Translation tasks are not allowed because there was
basically too much cheating last time with people just using Google
Translate.


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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strainu10 at gmail

Oct 25, 2012, 2:26 PM

Post #15 of 16 (715 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

2012/10/25 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher [at] wikimedia>:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Strainu <strainu10 [at] gmail> wrote:
>> I mentored for openSUSE last year and we had some translation tasks,
>> so they should be OK if rules haven't changed.
>
> The rules changed. Translation tasks are not allowed because there was
> basically too much cheating last time with people just using Google
> Translate.
>

Yeah, Andre's mail arrived just after sending mine :) It's a shame
though, we had some good translations last year (some Google translate
too, but I rejected those versions).

Strainu

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sumanah at wikimedia

Nov 5, 2012, 3:46 AM

Post #16 of 16 (694 views)
Permalink
Re: whether to do Google Code-In [In reply to]

On 10/25/2012 03:48 AM, Mark Holmquist wrote:
> On 10/22/2012 06:31 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
>> Last year we decided not to participate in Google Code-In
>> https://www.google-melange.com/gci/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2012/help_page
>>
>> , an outreach program to help us get more 13-to-17-year-old
>> contributors. I outlined the reasons here:
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-October/055937.html
>>
>> This year, we are again eligible to apply to participate. I estimate
>> that we'd need about 2 organizational administrators and 21 mentors to
>> do it well. So I've opened signups at
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In and explained what those
>> people would be committing to. If you want us to apply to participate
>> in GCI this winter, please comment on that page by November 1st. Thanks.
>
> I wanted to ping the list again about this....our project and others
> will really benefit from having new contributors, and the tech community
> at large will benefit from the education we can help provide these
> students. And of course, it means new community members and a generally
> more informed public.
>
> Please consider signing the list before the deadline, I'd really love to
> see this program happen. I'm willing to help a lot, but I can't do it all!
>
> Thanks,

We weren't able to get enough mentors to sign up to do Google Code-In,
so we will not be participating. I know this disappoints some of you;
we do want to encourage new participants, and we want some structured
mentorship that isn't just Google Summer of Code. I will start a new
thread about a more suitable program for us to participate in. :-)

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

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