Login | Register For Free | Help
Search for: (Advanced)

Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Wikitech

Expanding +2 access

 

 

Wikipedia wikitech RSS feed   Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded


erik at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 4:01 PM

Post #1 of 14 (1355 views)
Permalink
Expanding +2 access

Hi folks,

To help accelerate code review, we (WMF) have recently made efforts to
expand the +2 merge right on Git/Gerrit, consistent with the idea that
+2 is an expression of trust and confidence in someone's judgment
rather than an indicator of universal technical competence.

For example, you might have +2 on core, but specialize in front-end
code, or documentation fixes, or test changes. That means you would be
expected to only merge changes relevant to those areas, and we trust
you to exercise good judgment to do so.

Our intent is therefore to grant +2 more broadly than we have in the
past, but to also establish clear parameters under which we would
revoke it.

So we've:

- expanded +2 to all full-time WMF engineers by adding them to a 'wmf'
group which has +2 rights on the following repos: apps, glam,
integration, mediawiki, qa, search, translatewiki, webplatform.org

- been more open in handing out +2 to MediaWiki core. Sumana has been
actively nominating trusted volunteers to ensure that they get merge
rights. Five volunteers have gained maintainership rights in the past
week, and we're encouraging you to apply:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_ownership

- posted a draft policy for owners of the +2 permission here:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/%2B2

This last bit is the critical part -- as we expand +2, these are the
terms under which reviewers would be expected to operate. Please leave
comments on the talk page if anything strikes you as onerous or
unreasonable, or missing.

Hopefully this will reduce friction introduced with the Git/Gerrit
permissions model and review-related blockers.

All best,
Erik

--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


daniel at nadir-seen-fire

Oct 22, 2012, 4:21 PM

Post #2 of 14 (1327 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

Rather than expanding +2 I'm a little more concerned about allowing more
people to create repositories.

Currently it can take a half week waiting for a new repo just so you can
contribute a new extension, and there's typically no notification.
We need to make getting multiple new extensions into version control
somewhat close to how easy it was for a committer to do it back in svn.

--
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:01:03 -0700, Erik Moeller <erik [at] wikimedia>
wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> To help accelerate code review, we (WMF) have recently made efforts to
> expand the +2 merge right on Git/Gerrit, consistent with the idea that
> +2 is an expression of trust and confidence in someone's judgment
> rather than an indicator of universal technical competence.
>
> For example, you might have +2 on core, but specialize in front-end
> code, or documentation fixes, or test changes. That means you would be
> expected to only merge changes relevant to those areas, and we trust
> you to exercise good judgment to do so.
>
> Our intent is therefore to grant +2 more broadly than we have in the
> past, but to also establish clear parameters under which we would
> revoke it.
>
> So we've:
>
> - expanded +2 to all full-time WMF engineers by adding them to a 'wmf'
> group which has +2 rights on the following repos: apps, glam,
> integration, mediawiki, qa, search, translatewiki, webplatform.org
>
> - been more open in handing out +2 to MediaWiki core. Sumana has been
> actively nominating trusted volunteers to ensure that they get merge
> rights. Five volunteers have gained maintainership rights in the past
> week, and we're encouraging you to apply:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_ownership
>
> - posted a draft policy for owners of the +2 permission here:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/%2B2
>
> This last bit is the critical part -- as we expand +2, these are the
> terms under which reviewers would be expected to operate. Please leave
> comments on the talk page if anything strikes you as onerous or
> unreasonable, or missing.
>
> Hopefully this will reduce friction introduced with the Git/Gerrit
> permissions model and review-related blockers.
>
> All best,
> Erik


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


mail at tgries

Oct 22, 2012, 4:26 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1329 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

Am 23.10.2012 01:21, schrieb Daniel Friesen:
> Rather than expanding +2 I'm a little more concerned about allowing
> more people to create repositories.
>
> Currently it can take a half week waiting for a new repo just so you
> can contribute a new extension, and there's typically no notification.
> We need to make getting multiple new extensions into version control
> somewhat close to how easy it was for a committer to do it back in svn.
>
that's why people set up their own github extension repos.


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


tylerromeo at gmail

Oct 22, 2012, 4:37 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1326 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

Agreed on what Daniel said. I'd much prefer to keep my extensions on
Gerrit, but it becomes slightly frustrating when you have to wait two weeks
for the repository to be created.
*--*
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
Major in Computer Science
www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo [at] gmail



On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Daniel Friesen
<daniel [at] nadir-seen-fire>wrote:

> Rather than expanding +2 I'm a little more concerned about allowing more
> people to create repositories.
>
> Currently it can take a half week waiting for a new repo just so you can
> contribute a new extension, and there's typically no notification.
> We need to make getting multiple new extensions into version control
> somewhat close to how easy it was for a committer to do it back in svn.
>
> --
> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:01:03 -0700, Erik Moeller <erik [at] wikimedia>
> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>>
>> To help accelerate code review, we (WMF) have recently made efforts to
>> expand the +2 merge right on Git/Gerrit, consistent with the idea that
>> +2 is an expression of trust and confidence in someone's judgment
>> rather than an indicator of universal technical competence.
>>
>> For example, you might have +2 on core, but specialize in front-end
>> code, or documentation fixes, or test changes. That means you would be
>> expected to only merge changes relevant to those areas, and we trust
>> you to exercise good judgment to do so.
>>
>> Our intent is therefore to grant +2 more broadly than we have in the
>> past, but to also establish clear parameters under which we would
>> revoke it.
>>
>> So we've:
>>
>> - expanded +2 to all full-time WMF engineers by adding them to a 'wmf'
>> group which has +2 rights on the following repos: apps, glam,
>> integration, mediawiki, qa, search, translatewiki, webplatform.org
>>
>> - been more open in handing out +2 to MediaWiki core. Sumana has been
>> actively nominating trusted volunteers to ensure that they get merge
>> rights. Five volunteers have gained maintainership rights in the past
>> week, and we're encouraging you to apply:
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/**wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_**ownership<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_ownership>
>>
>> - posted a draft policy for owners of the +2 permission here:
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/**wiki/%2B2<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/%2B2>
>>
>> This last bit is the critical part -- as we expand +2, these are the
>> terms under which reviewers would be expected to operate. Please leave
>> comments on the talk page if anything strikes you as onerous or
>> unreasonable, or missing.
>>
>> Hopefully this will reduce friction introduced with the Git/Gerrit
>> permissions model and review-related blockers.
>>
>> All best,
>> Erik
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


z at mzmcbride

Oct 22, 2012, 5:11 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1327 views)
Permalink
Re: Length of time to create new Git repositories [In reply to]

Thomas Gries wrote:
> Am 23.10.2012 01:21, schrieb Daniel Friesen:
>> Rather than expanding +2 I'm a little more concerned about allowing
>> more people to create repositories.
>>
>> Currently it can take a half week waiting for a new repo just so you
>> can contribute a new extension, and there's typically no notification.
>> We need to make getting multiple new extensions into version control
>> somewhat close to how easy it was for a committer to do it back in svn.
>
> that's why people set up their own github extension repos.

Heh, quite.

Is there a relevant bug about this? I guess you'd want a general bug about
slowness to create new requested repos (that's the issue, right?), maybe
with some data as supporting evidence of the slowness. I believe the current
workflow is "request made on mediawiki.org; fulfilled within a few days,
usually by ^demon", so it should be fairly easy to graph this, if you're
interested in seeing this resolved. The workflow probably just needs a bit
of optimization?

Allowing users to create their own repos is an interesting idea, but I
imagine it's been discussed elsewhere. If anyone has a bug link, that'd be
great.

MZMcBride



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


sumanah at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 5:12 PM

Post #6 of 14 (1325 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

My understanding is that creating new repositories becomes WAY easier
with Gerrit 2.5, which is one of many reasons the upgrade to 2.5 is one
of Chad's priorities. (Also GitBlit support, automatic GitHub repo
creation, etc.) We know creating new repos is pretty sub-optimal right
now and are working to fix that. Let's take implementation details to
the other thread.

However, back to the main thread: it is going to be GREAT for our whole
community that we're expanding maintainership. Congratulations to Brian
Wolff, Derk-Jan Hartman, Brad Jorsch, Victor Vasiliev, and Robin
Pepermans, who now have the ability to +2 code into MediaWiki core;
we're grateful for their expertise in JS/CSS, media handling, the API,
our parser, language engineering, and more. They join Platonides and
Alexandre Emsenhuber as volunteers who can review and merge changes into
the codebase that will then be deployed onto WMF sites and into the
tarball. I think that's pretty cool.

You can apply at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_ownership - you just
need one approval and no vetoes from the current maintainers to get in.
If you're not ready yet, we'll tell you what you need to do to get there.

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

On 10/22/2012 04:37 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
> Agreed on what Daniel said. I'd much prefer to keep my extensions on
> Gerrit, but it becomes slightly frustrating when you have to wait two weeks
> for the repository to be created.
> *--*
> *Tyler Romeo*
> Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
> Major in Computer Science
> www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo [at] gmail
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Daniel Friesen
> <daniel [at] nadir-seen-fire>wrote:
>
>> Rather than expanding +2 I'm a little more concerned about allowing more
>> people to create repositories.
>>
>> Currently it can take a half week waiting for a new repo just so you can
>> contribute a new extension, and there's typically no notification.
>> We need to make getting multiple new extensions into version control
>> somewhat close to how easy it was for a committer to do it back in svn.
>>
>> --
>> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:01:03 -0700, Erik Moeller <erik [at] wikimedia>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> To help accelerate code review, we (WMF) have recently made efforts to
>>> expand the +2 merge right on Git/Gerrit, consistent with the idea that
>>> +2 is an expression of trust and confidence in someone's judgment
>>> rather than an indicator of universal technical competence.
>>>
>>> For example, you might have +2 on core, but specialize in front-end
>>> code, or documentation fixes, or test changes. That means you would be
>>> expected to only merge changes relevant to those areas, and we trust
>>> you to exercise good judgment to do so.
>>>
>>> Our intent is therefore to grant +2 more broadly than we have in the
>>> past, but to also establish clear parameters under which we would
>>> revoke it.
>>>
>>> So we've:
>>>
>>> - expanded +2 to all full-time WMF engineers by adding them to a 'wmf'
>>> group which has +2 rights on the following repos: apps, glam,
>>> integration, mediawiki, qa, search, translatewiki, webplatform.org
>>>
>>> - been more open in handing out +2 to MediaWiki core. Sumana has been
>>> actively nominating trusted volunteers to ensure that they get merge
>>> rights. Five volunteers have gained maintainership rights in the past
>>> week, and we're encouraging you to apply:
>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/**wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_**ownership<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Gerrit_project_ownership>
>>>
>>> - posted a draft policy for owners of the +2 permission here:
>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/**wiki/%2B2<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/%2B2>
>>>
>>> This last bit is the critical part -- as we expand +2, these are the
>>> terms under which reviewers would be expected to operate. Please leave
>>> comments on the talk page if anything strikes you as onerous or
>>> unreasonable, or missing.
>>>
>>> Hopefully this will reduce friction introduced with the Git/Gerrit
>>> permissions model and review-related blockers.
>>>
>>> All best,
>>> Erik
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


innocentkiller at gmail

Oct 22, 2012, 5:16 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1336 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Sumana Harihareswara
<sumanah [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> My understanding is that creating new repositories becomes WAY easier
> with Gerrit 2.5, which is one of many reasons the upgrade to 2.5 is one
> of Chad's priorities. (Also GitBlit support, automatic GitHub repo
> creation, etc.) We know creating new repos is pretty sub-optimal right
> now and are working to fix that. Let's take implementation details to
> the other thread.
>

No, there's no real improvements there. However, I'm all for
streamlining the process as much as humanly possible as
Max already mentioned.

-Chad

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


aklapper at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 5:30 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1330 views)
Permalink
Re: Length of time to create new Git repositories [In reply to]

On Mon, 2012-10-22 at 20:11 -0400, MZMcBride wrote:
> > Am 23.10.2012 01:21, schrieb Daniel Friesen:
> >> Currently it can take a half week waiting for a new repo

> Is there a relevant bug about this? I guess you'd want a general bug about
> slowness to create new requested repos (that's the issue, right?), maybe
> with some data as supporting evidence of the slowness.

If it's a technical problem (can be fixed by a code change):
A bug report in bugzilla.wikimedia.org is very welcome.

If it's a social problem (people are too busy etc.):
Not fixable via a bug report as you will never be able to clearly define
when the problem got "fixed".
I recommend discussing on mailing lists / IRC / wikis instead.

andre
--
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


ori at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 5:46 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1330 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:

> Agreed on what Daniel said. I'd much prefer to keep my extensions on
> Gerrit, but it becomes slightly frustrating when you have to wait two weeks
> for the repository to be created.


FWIW I happened to request a repository on Saturday night and it was ready for me this morning (both times PST). Looking at the history of the requests page, it looks like quick turnarounds are the norm. I'd also like repository creation rights to be expanded, but I don't think being hyperbolic with criticism helps move things along.

--
Ori Livneh
ori [at] wikimedia



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


ori at wikimedia

Oct 22, 2012, 5:52 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1330 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Ori Livneh wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
>
> > Agreed on what Daniel said. I'd much prefer to keep my extensions on
> > Gerrit, but it becomes slightly frustrating when you have to wait two weeks
> > for the repository to be created.
>
>
>
>
> FWIW I happened to request a repository on Saturday night and it was ready for me this morning (both times PST). Looking at the history of the requests page, it looks like quick turnarounds are the norm. I'd also like repository creation rights to be expanded, but I don't think being hyperbolic with criticism helps move things along.
Tyler, I read your e-mail as implying that two-week waits are the norm. It now occurs to me that you may have been referring to a specific case. If so, I misread -- disregard my reply.


--
Ori Livneh
ori [at] wikimedia




_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


tylerromeo at gmail

Oct 22, 2012, 5:59 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1327 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

Sorry about that. Two weeks is indeed *not* the norm. Most repositories
(from what I can tell) are created pretty quickly. However, if we're
encouraging extension developers to stick to Gerrit, the occasional edge
case might put a bad taste in somebody's mouth (as for me, I'm a patient
man ;) ).
*--*
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
Major in Computer Science
www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo [at] gmail



On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Ori Livneh <ori [at] wikimedia> wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Ori Livneh wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
> >
> > > Agreed on what Daniel said. I'd much prefer to keep my extensions on
> > > Gerrit, but it becomes slightly frustrating when you have to wait two
> weeks
> > > for the repository to be created.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > FWIW I happened to request a repository on Saturday night and it was
> ready for me this morning (both times PST). Looking at the history of the
> requests page, it looks like quick turnarounds are the norm. I'd also like
> repository creation rights to be expanded, but I don't think being
> hyperbolic with criticism helps move things along.
> Tyler, I read your e-mail as implying that two-week waits are the norm. It
> now occurs to me that you may have been referring to a specific case. If
> so, I misread -- disregard my reply.
>
>
> --
> Ori Livneh
> ori [at] wikimedia
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


daniel at nadir-seen-fire

Oct 22, 2012, 5:59 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1326 views)
Permalink
Re: Expanding +2 access [In reply to]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:46:33 -0700, Ori Livneh <ori [at] wikimedia> wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
>
>> Agreed on what Daniel said. I'd much prefer to keep my extensions on
>> Gerrit, but it becomes slightly frustrating when you have to wait two
>> weeks
>> for the repository to be created.
>
>
> FWIW I happened to request a repository on Saturday night and it was
> ready for me this morning (both times PST). Looking at the history of
> the requests page, it looks like quick turnarounds are the norm. I'd
> also like repository creation rights to be expanded, but I don't think
> being hyperbolic with criticism helps move things along.
>
> --
> Ori Livneh
> ori [at] wikimedia

I made a request at 7h on the 15th, it was finished at 15h on the 19th. I
didn't know it was ready till 0h on the 23rd. (rough UTC)

2 weeks is an exaggeration for actual fulfillment time. But it can take
days.
And the drive for extensions can fade within the first day. It should't
take any time at all to get extensions into the wild.
--
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


steven.walling at gmail

Oct 23, 2012, 10:52 AM

Post #13 of 14 (1322 views)
Permalink
Re: Length of time to create new Git repositories [In reply to]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:11 PM, MZMcBride <z [at] mzmcbride> wrote:

> Allowing users to create their own repos is an interesting idea, but I
> imagine it's been discussed elsewhere. If anyone has a bug link, that'd be
> great.
>

Not sure about a bug, but my understanding from previous wikitech-l threads
is that the primary obstacle was the Gerrit does not (or did not at the
time) allow actually deleting repos, only 'archiving' them, and that the
rights for creating repos are/were bundled with other administrative rights
that we didn't want to hand out widely.

Chad, that still the case?

Steven
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


innocentkiller at gmail

Oct 23, 2012, 10:58 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1321 views)
Permalink
Re: Length of time to create new Git repositories [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Steven Walling
<steven.walling [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:11 PM, MZMcBride <z [at] mzmcbride> wrote:
>
>> Allowing users to create their own repos is an interesting idea, but I
>> imagine it's been discussed elsewhere. If anyone has a bug link, that'd be
>> great.
>>
>
> Not sure about a bug, but my understanding from previous wikitech-l threads
> is that the primary obstacle was the Gerrit does not (or did not at the
> time) allow actually deleting repos, only 'archiving' them, and that the
> rights for creating repos are/were bundled with other administrative rights
> that we didn't want to hand out widely.
>
> Chad, that still the case?
>

That was part of it. With 2.5, we'll be able to actually delete repos,
so the "can't get rid of mistakes" argument goes away.

They are decoupled from admin rights, but the setup process isn't
always straightforward (new extensions are, though). At least having
a real queue with notifications & such would streamline the process.

-Chad

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Wikipedia wikitech RSS feed   Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded
 
 


Interested in having your list archived? Contact Gossamer Threads
 
  Web Applications & Managed Hosting Powered by Gossamer Threads Inc.