Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Wikitech

Work offer inside

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mediawiki-announce at wikimedia

Aug 30, 2012, 8:15 AM

Post #1 of 20 (709 views)
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Work offer inside

I would like to take this time to welcome you to our hiring process
and give you a brief synopsis of the position's benefits and requirements.

If you are taking a career break, are on a maternity leave,
recently retired or simply looking for some part-time job, this position is for you.

Occupation: Flexible schedule 2 to 8 hours per day. We can guarantee a minimum 20 hrs/week occupation
Salary: Starting salary is 2000 GBP per month plus commission, paid every month.
Business hours: 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, MON-FRI, 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM SAT or part time (UK time).

Region: United Kingdom.

Please note that there are no startup fees or deposits to start working for us.

To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more information about this position
please reply to Tommy [at] xpatjobsuk,with your personal identification number for this position IDNO: 3985

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akshay.leadindia at gmail

Aug 30, 2012, 10:19 AM

Post #2 of 20 (675 views)
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Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

This is definitely a fraud message, checked it on various scamming sites

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:45 PM, <board [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> I would like to take this time to welcome you to our hiring process
> and give you a brief synopsis of the position's benefits and requirements.
>
> If you are taking a career break, are on a maternity leave,
> recently retired or simply looking for some part-time job, this position
> is for you.
>
> Occupation: Flexible schedule 2 to 8 hours per day. We can guarantee a
> minimum 20 hrs/week occupation
> Salary: Starting salary is 2000 GBP per month plus commission, paid every
> month.
> Business hours: 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, MON-FRI, 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM SAT or
> part time (UK time).
>
> Region: United Kingdom.
>
> Please note that there are no startup fees or deposits to start working
> for us.
>
> To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more
> information about this position
> please reply to Tommy [at] xpatjobsuk,with your personal identification
> number for this position IDNO: 3985
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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daniel at nadir-seen-fire

Aug 30, 2012, 11:15 AM

Post #3 of 20 (674 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

This brings up the question.
Why does wikimedia.org not have a SPF record?

We should be rejecting wikimedia.org emails that we know do not come from
Wikimedia.

--
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:19:52 -0700, Akshay Agarwal
<akshay.leadindia [at] gmail> wrote:

> This is definitely a fraud message, checked it on various scamming sites
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:45 PM, <board [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>
>> I would like to take this time to welcome you to our hiring process
>> and give you a brief synopsis of the position's benefits and
>> requirements.
>>
>> If you are taking a career break, are on a maternity leave,
>> recently retired or simply looking for some part-time job, this position
>> is for you.
>>
>> Occupation: Flexible schedule 2 to 8 hours per day. We can guarantee a
>> minimum 20 hrs/week occupation
>> Salary: Starting salary is 2000 GBP per month plus commission, paid
>> every
>> month.
>> Business hours: 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, MON-FRI, 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM SAT or
>> part time (UK time).
>>
>> Region: United Kingdom.
>>
>> Please note that there are no startup fees or deposits to start working
>> for us.
>>
>> To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more
>> information about this position
>> please reply to Tommy [at] xpatjobsuk,with your personal identification
>> number for this position IDNO: 3985

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tstarling at wikimedia

Aug 30, 2012, 5:28 PM

Post #4 of 20 (674 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On 31/08/12 04:15, Daniel Friesen wrote:
> This brings up the question.
> Why does wikimedia.org not have a SPF record?
>
> We should be rejecting wikimedia.org emails that we know do not come
> from Wikimedia.

In May, Jeff Green proposed deploying it with "softfail", but it
wasn't ever actually done. Nobody wanted to use a "fail" qualifier,
due to the risk of legitimate mail not being delivered. So even if he
had deployed it, it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.

Mailman's security weaknesses are inherent to the protocol it uses,
there's no way to repair it. The scam email could have been sent with
a "From" header copied from anyone who has posted to the list
recently. In the unlikely event that SPF fail was used for that sender
and the receiver respected it, the scammer could have just picked
again. We should use a web interface for posting to groups, web
interfaces can be password protected without breaking 99% of clients.

I removed board [at] wikimedia from the list of email addresses
that are allowed to post to the list without being subscribed.

-- Tim Starling

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jgreen at wikimedia

Aug 31, 2012, 1:01 PM

Post #5 of 20 (670 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

I still think it's a very good idea to deploy both SPF and domainkeys. SPF
keeps coming up--twice this week from completely different quarters. Today
the mailhouse we hired to help with the fundraiser tells me our
deliverability with one major ISP is poor because we lack SPF.

We are currently stuck at the step of mapping out how we originate mail
for the whitelist. Production and Google Apps mail are easy. But people
say we may have volunteers, board members, etc. who do not use our known
mail routes. I think OIT is in the best position to sort that out. They're
the go-to for mail client setup and can survey any outliers. I spoke to
Andrew about it in June and he was up for it but felt it needs to be
approved and prioritized by managers.

jg

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Tim Starling wrote:

> On 31/08/12 04:15, Daniel Friesen wrote:
>> This brings up the question.
>> Why does wikimedia.org not have a SPF record?
>>
>> We should be rejecting wikimedia.org emails that we know do not come
>> from Wikimedia.
>
> In May, Jeff Green proposed deploying it with "softfail", but it
> wasn't ever actually done. Nobody wanted to use a "fail" qualifier,
> due to the risk of legitimate mail not being delivered. So even if he
> had deployed it, it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.
>
> Mailman's security weaknesses are inherent to the protocol it uses,
> there's no way to repair it. The scam email could have been sent with
> a "From" header copied from anyone who has posted to the list
> recently. In the unlikely event that SPF fail was used for that sender
> and the receiver respected it, the scammer could have just picked
> again. We should use a web interface for posting to groups, web
> interfaces can be password protected without breaking 99% of clients.
>
> I removed board [at] wikimedia from the list of email addresses
> that are allowed to post to the list without being subscribed.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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roan.kattouw at gmail

Aug 31, 2012, 1:07 PM

Post #6 of 20 (669 views)
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Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Derric Atzrott
<datzrott [at] alizeepathology> wrote:
> Forgive me for not knowing, but what is OIT? A quick Google gives me Oregon
> Institute of Technology, but I that is it given the context.
>
Wikimedia's Office IT department.

Roan

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datzrott at alizeepathology

Aug 31, 2012, 1:07 PM

Post #7 of 20 (669 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

>I still think it's a very good idea to deploy both SPF and domainkeys. SPF
>keeps coming up--twice this week from completely different quarters. Today
>the mailhouse we hired to help with the fundraiser tells me our
>deliverability with one major ISP is poor because we lack SPF.
>
>We are currently stuck at the step of mapping out how we originate mail
>for the whitelist. Production and Google Apps mail are easy. But people
>say we may have volunteers, board members, etc. who do not use our known
>mail routes. I think OIT is in the best position to sort that out. They're
>the go-to for mail client setup and can survey any outliers. I spoke to
>Andrew about it in June and he was up for it but felt it needs to be
>approved and prioritized by managers.

Forgive me for not knowing, but what is OIT? A quick Google gives me Oregon
Institute of Technology, but I that is it given the context.

Thank you,
Derric Atzrott

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jgreen at wikimedia

Aug 31, 2012, 1:15 PM

Post #8 of 20 (669 views)
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Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

that should read "survey and reconfigure any outliers"

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Jeff Green wrote:

> I still think it's a very good idea to deploy both SPF and domainkeys. SPF
> keeps coming up--twice this week from completely different quarters. Today
> the mailhouse we hired to help with the fundraiser tells me our
> deliverability with one major ISP is poor because we lack SPF.
>
> We are currently stuck at the step of mapping out how we originate mail for
> the whitelist. Production and Google Apps mail are easy. But people say we
> may have volunteers, board members, etc. who do not use our known mail
> routes. I think OIT is in the best position to sort that out. They're the
> go-to for mail client setup and can survey any outliers. I spoke to Andrew
> about it in June and he was up for it but felt it needs to be approved and
> prioritized by managers.
>
> jg
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Tim Starling wrote:
>
>> On 31/08/12 04:15, Daniel Friesen wrote:
>>> This brings up the question.
>>> Why does wikimedia.org not have a SPF record?
>>>
>>> We should be rejecting wikimedia.org emails that we know do not come
>>> from Wikimedia.
>>
>> In May, Jeff Green proposed deploying it with "softfail", but it
>> wasn't ever actually done. Nobody wanted to use a "fail" qualifier,
>> due to the risk of legitimate mail not being delivered. So even if he
>> had deployed it, it probably wouldn't have helped in this case.
>>
>> Mailman's security weaknesses are inherent to the protocol it uses,
>> there's no way to repair it. The scam email could have been sent with
>> a "From" header copied from anyone who has posted to the list
>> recently. In the unlikely event that SPF fail was used for that sender
>> and the receiver respected it, the scammer could have just picked
>> again. We should use a web interface for posting to groups, web
>> interfaces can be password protected without breaking 99% of clients.
>>
>> I removed board [at] wikimedia from the list of email addresses
>> that are allowed to post to the list without being subscribed.
>>
>> -- Tim Starling
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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mah at everybody

Aug 31, 2012, 1:20 PM

Post #9 of 20 (670 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On 08/31/2012 04:01 PM, Jeff Green wrote:
> We are currently stuck at the step of mapping out how we originate mail
> for the whitelist. Production and Google Apps mail are easy. But people
> say we may have volunteers, board members, etc. who do not use our known
> mail routes.

I'm not why you couldn't give volunteers, etc. a server to send from and
add that IP to your trusted senders for the domain that they use
(assuming they're using one of your domains for their email address).

This does seem like an OIT function instead of an Operations one, but it
seems very doable. Thunderbird, at least, supports different servers
per-identity.

Mark.

--
http://hexmode.com/

Human evil is not a problem. It is a mystery. It cannot be solved.
-- When Atheism Becomes a Religion, Chris Hedges

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jgreen at wikimedia

Aug 31, 2012, 1:31 PM

Post #10 of 20 (672 views)
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Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:

> On 08/31/2012 04:01 PM, Jeff Green wrote:
>> We are currently stuck at the step of mapping out how we originate mail
>> for the whitelist. Production and Google Apps mail are easy. But people
>> say we may have volunteers, board members, etc. who do not use our known
>> mail routes.
>
> I'm not why you couldn't give volunteers, etc. a server to send from and
> add that IP to your trusted senders for the domain that they use
> (assuming they're using one of your domains for their email address).

Andrew suggested giving them Google apps accounts. I think it's a great
solution--it allows people to use gmail or pretty much any mail client
they want.

> This does seem like an OIT function instead of an Operations one, but it
> seems very doable. Thunderbird, at least, supports different servers
> per-identity.
>
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> http://hexmode.com/
>
> Human evil is not a problem. It is a mystery. It cannot be solved.
> -- When Atheism Becomes a Religion, Chris Hedges
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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mah at everybody

Aug 31, 2012, 1:43 PM

Post #11 of 20 (670 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On 08/31/2012 04:31 PM, Jeff Green wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
>> I'm not why you couldn't give volunteers, etc. a server to send from and
>> add that IP to your trusted senders for the domain that they use
>> (assuming they're using one of your domains for their email address).
>
> Andrew suggested giving them Google apps accounts. I think it's a great
> solution--it allows people to use gmail or pretty much any mail client
> they want.

Yes, that makes sense given that the Foundation already uses Google Apps.

But in an organization like the Foundation, you'll come across
volunteers, etc., who would prefer to use Google as little as possible.
I make my own attempts at this (which is why I run my own email server
for my friends and family).

I think it makes sense to accommodate those Foundation supporters by
providing the ability to send email reliably.

I've done this using ReturnPath and my server for some non-profits I
work with. It does take some time to set up, but ongoing maintenance is
minimal.

--
http://hexmode.com/

Human evil is not a problem. It is a mystery. It cannot be solved.
-- When Atheism Becomes a Religion, Chris Hedges

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Platonides at gmail

Aug 31, 2012, 4:13 PM

Post #12 of 20 (676 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On 31/08/12 22:31, Jeff Green wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
>
>> On 08/31/2012 04:01 PM, Jeff Green wrote:
>>> We are currently stuck at the step of mapping out how we originate mail
>>> for the whitelist. Production and Google Apps mail are easy. But people
>>> say we may have volunteers, board members, etc. who do not use our known
>>> mail routes.
>>
>> I'm not why you couldn't give volunteers, etc. a server to send from and
>> add that IP to your trusted senders for the domain that they use
>> (assuming they're using one of your domains for their email address).
>
> Andrew suggested giving them Google apps accounts. I think it's a great
> solution--it allows people to use gmail or pretty much any mail client
> they want.

Volunteers don't have @wikimedia.org addresses...

Moreover, I expect Ops to know which wikimedia.org emails are valid, so
they could in theory send a mass mail alerting of an upcomin change,
although I expect anyone with that email would be in internal-l.

Posts going to a mailing list through gmane could be a problem though,
since the mail goes user -> gmane -> mchenry -> distribution.

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mtraceur at member

Aug 31, 2012, 4:17 PM

Post #13 of 20 (690 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

> Andrew suggested giving them Google apps accounts. I think it's a great
> solution--it allows people to use gmail or pretty much any mail client
> they want.

However, it forces them to use the google mail servers, which may be
less-than-desirable for some of us (me included) for various reasons.
Better to handle blacklisting, and let people use their own mail servers
or whatever else they'd like.

--
Mark Holmquist
Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
mtraceur [at] member
http://marktraceur.info

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hashar+wmf at free

Sep 1, 2012, 1:01 PM

Post #14 of 20 (669 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

Le 31/08/12 22:43, Mark A. Hershberger a �crit :
> But in an organization like the Foundation, you'll come across
> volunteers, etc., who would prefer to use Google as little as possible.
> I make my own attempts at this (which is why I run my own email server
> for my friends and family).

Note that one can use IMAP instead of the Gmail interface.

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso

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mah at everybody

Sep 1, 2012, 1:51 PM

Post #15 of 20 (671 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On 09/01/2012 04:01 PM, Antoine Musso wrote:
> Le 31/08/12 22:43, Mark A. Hershberger a �crit :
>> But in an organization like the Foundation, you'll come across
>> volunteers, etc., who would prefer to use Google as little as possible.
>> I make my own attempts at this (which is why I run my own email server
>> for my friends and family).
>
> Note that one can use IMAP instead of the Gmail interface.

And you can use SMTP instead of the Gmail interface for sending email.

As true as all this is, some of us would prefer to keep an advertising
giant like Google out of our business as much as possible.

--
http://hexmode.com/

Human evil is not a problem. It is a mystery. It cannot be solved.
-- When Atheism Becomes a Religion, Chris Hedges

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mtraceur at member

Sep 1, 2012, 1:53 PM

Post #16 of 20 (672 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

> As true as all this is, some of us would prefer to keep an advertising
> giant like Google out of our business as much as possible.

Or alternatively, a non-free software giant like Google. But it comes to
roughly the same conclusion.

--
Mark Holmquist
Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
mtraceur [at] member
http://marktraceur.info

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lcarr at wikimedia

Sep 1, 2012, 3:47 PM

Post #17 of 20 (668 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Mark Holmquist <mtraceur [at] member> wrote:
>> As true as all this is, some of us would prefer to keep an advertising
>> giant like Google out of our business as much as possible.
>
>
> Or alternatively, a non-free software giant like Google. But it comes to
> roughly the same conclusion.
>

That's nice, but as a business decision the wikimedia foundation has
decided to host our corporate email with Google. For personal mail we
all have the choice of whatever system we would like, but this
business decision has been made for us, and if someone wants a
wikimedia.org address, I don't think it's an onerous burden to require
that they use our current infrastructure to access it, instead of
requiring us to do a lot of difficult workarounds. Unless I've missed
something, using wikimedia.org for non-employees is a option, not a
necessity.

Leslie

>
> --
> Mark Holmquist
> Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
> mtraceur [at] member
> http://marktraceur.info
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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mtraceur at member

Sep 1, 2012, 4:18 PM

Post #18 of 20 (668 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

> That's nice, but as a business decision the wikimedia foundation has
> decided to host our corporate email with Google. For personal mail we
> all have the choice of whatever system we would like, but this
> business decision has been made for us, and if someone wants a
> wikimedia.org address, I don't think it's an onerous burden to require
> that they use our current infrastructure to access it, instead of
> requiring us to do a lot of difficult workarounds. Unless I've missed
> something, using wikimedia.org for non-employees is a option, not a
> necessity.

It was my understanding that part of this discussion was to require
volunteers to use a specific mail server to post to the list....but now
I can't find the message that gave me that impression, so maybe I've
misunderstood the nature of the thread?

(I'm leaving out arguments about the decision to host with Google, but
it seems like a relevant thing, perhaps there are archived discussions
that I could read?)

--
Mark Holmquist
Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
mtraceur [at] member
http://marktraceur.info

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lcarr at wikimedia

Sep 1, 2012, 4:29 PM

Post #19 of 20 (669 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Mark Holmquist <mtraceur [at] member> wrote:
>> That's nice, but as a business decision the wikimedia foundation has
>> decided to host our corporate email with Google. For personal mail we
>> all have the choice of whatever system we would like, but this
>> business decision has been made for us, and if someone wants a
>> wikimedia.org address, I don't think it's an onerous burden to require
>> that they use our current infrastructure to access it, instead of
>> requiring us to do a lot of difficult workarounds. Unless I've missed
>> something, using wikimedia.org for non-employees is a option, not a
>> necessity.
>
>
> It was my understanding that part of this discussion was to require
> volunteers to use a specific mail server to post to the list....but now I
> can't find the message that gave me that impression, so maybe I've
> misunderstood the nature of the thread?
>

I believe the nature was SPF checks for mail claiming to be sourced
from wikimedia.org addresses. This would require an "authoritative"
SMTP server but wouldn't prevent non @wikimedia.org email addresses
from posting to the list.

Leslie

> (I'm leaving out arguments about the decision to host with Google, but it
> seems like a relevant thing, perhaps there are archived discussions that I
> could read?)
>
>
> --
> Mark Holmquist
> Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
> mtraceur [at] member
> http://marktraceur.info
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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z at mzmcbride

Sep 1, 2012, 7:18 PM

Post #20 of 20 (669 views)
Permalink

Re: Work offer inside [In reply to]

Mark Holmquist wrote:
> (I'm leaving out arguments about the decision to host with Google, but
> it seems like a relevant thing, perhaps there are archived discussions
> that I could read?)

The Wikimedia Foundation's decision to switch to Google Apps came up on
foundation-l in October 2010. The relevant thread can be found here:
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-October/thread.html>
(search for "Google Apps").

MZMcBride

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