datzrott at alizeepathology
Aug 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
Post #13 of 29
Re: Can we make an acceptable behavior policy? (was: Re: Mailman archives broken?)
[In reply to]
> > I think it's important to keep things in perspective, and not to
> If you were treated this way consistently by someone, and the community
> defended that person rather than calling them out on their poor behavior,
> you continue to volunteer? Do you expect staff to continue working under
> same conditions?
> Best case you'll get is staff members that tune out the jerks. Of course,
> the prevailing culture breeds this type of behavior, you'll get lots of
> tuning out lots of jerks. It isn't a viable community.
Before I begin with anything else, let me say that I am not defending anyone
here. This message is meant to state an honest opinion on a matter that
likely affect all of us on this mailing list due to its nature, and the
of this discussion.
With that in mind. I do agree that this entire thing has gotten out of
perspective. While I don't agree with the actions that prompted this (sorry
I can't back you up here, although I do get where you're coming from), I
think that the fact that I even felt the need to write this email, or for
matter write this email in the careful fashion I am doing it in, shows that
the situation has been blown out of perspective.
> > What seems to have happened here, is that one action has broken many
> > (all?) links to Mailman archives. That, in my book, is a mess. The
> > question was, to that someone who made the mess, what his plan was to
> > it up.
> Again with the phrasing. Cut it out.
Agreed. I'm not sure if anyone else read the previously linked to article
not being a dick, but it actually talks about this. Just because something
right, does not make it not dickish.
Quick Note: I've not been on the list for long enough to know whether or
not MZ is consistantly a dick, but I tend to assume good faith in that he
probably just being a dick this time. Same thing with Michel, who for the
part did not post a dickish message and in fact I would go so far as to say
that Michel probably would rather see this whole discussion done and
so we can get back to the good stuff than anything else. I could be wrong,
that was the impression his email gave me at least.
> You realize that Daniel is the only person who's deleted posts that has
> given the slightest care to the fact that the links break, right? This
> all the time and until today we just broke the links.
> If you really want to fix this problem, fix mailman, or write a sane
Although I agree that this is probably the direction we need to head, right
our problem is the links as they are. When your car breaks down you don't
"If you really want to fix this problem, design a new car." Instead you go
the repair shop, get your car fixed so you can move on with your life, and
the car has been consistantly an issue for a while now, after it is fixed
go about designing a new car (assuming you have the skill set required to do
With that in mind. I agree that Daniel should be commended for his work. I
also think that a mess was made and needs cleaned up. I ''also'' think that
a better system needs to be implemented or designed to keep this from
again. So in this regard I think everyone is right.
> > What should happen right now is *cleaning up the mess*. The more time
> > is spent in butthurt and drama, the more *new* mess there is to clean
> > up, once the old mess is cleaned up.
> This thread is about the culture of aggressive behavior that we breed and
> accept. I'm tired of accepting it. As I called out MZ, I'm going to call
> out too. Your behavior in this post is unacceptable.
I've no comment here. That is your personal opinion and I have no place
intruding on it.
> > As far as I can see the easiest wat to go about this, is to dig up
> > backups, salt the messages that originally needed to be "deleted" with
> > spaces or *** or whatever (and add a note to the effect of "this was
> > done because of *reason*), and then rebuild the archives so the
> > permalinks are not broken anymore.
> > And then go in and fix whatever permalinks were fixed in the meantime.
> > This needs to happen fast. Once it's been done, there's all the time
> > in the world for recriminations and drama and new guidelines and rules
> > of conduct and whatnot.
> Why does this matter so much? This is like the 27637862487 time that links
> been broken due to the exact same action. It isn't the end of the world.
> would be ideal if it was repaired, but it's not a dire emergency.
> - Ryan
Agreed. The issue is not time senstative, although it would be better to be
fixed sooner than later. Its more like you lost your favourite book than
lost your rent money. The world won't end from this problem, but it will
things inconvient for others down the line. Would a medium priority perhaps
be a good compromise?
Also I think that Michel's solution to fix the problem is a good idea. I
see any downsides to restoring a backup, blanking the messages, and then
the previously fixed links. With that in mind, I wouldn't blame Daniel if
didn't want to do it. I know I wouldn't want to go through that effort if I
found myself caught in the middle of this.
Hopefully all of these issues can be solved in a relaxed, calm, and
manner. I would like to re-iterate that this post is not meant to offend,
blame, or condemn anyone. Furthermore this post is not meant to be dickish
I appologise ahead of time if it is, or anyone construes it as such. I am
merely attempting to act as an uninterested third party, as I have no real
interest in the mailing list archive, nor do I really know Daniel; Michel;
Ryan, who can help mediate the situation.
Sorry for the long email all.
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