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Deployment of Wikidata

 

 

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denny.vrandecic at wikimedia

Jul 10, 2012, 12:20 PM

Post #1 of 21 (2331 views)
Permalink
Deployment of Wikidata

Hi all,

with this Email I want to start the discussion on how to
operationalize the deployment of Wikidata. This Email gives a general
outline, and a link to the page on Meta where I will collect the
results of this discussion. Discussion, feedback and comments are
welcome.

The goal for Wikidata is to release early, release often, and to
eventually follow WMF's lead with their bi-weekly deployment cycle.
The very first version of Wikidata to deploy is almost there. We still
have a number of bugs and wrinkles we are polishing, but in general we
are ready to start moving towards deployment. This will lead to a very
organic introduction of Wikidata data into the Wikipedias. We can
react to problems and use cases early. I think a plan where we
implement the three phases completely and deploy them then is bound to
lead to a less widely accepted solution.

The suggestion is to deploy the following steps. This all still only
covers phase I.
* Step 1: start the Wikidata repository wiki. This only allows to add
language links, and they are not displayed anywhere yet.
* Step 2: deploy the Wikidata client extension on one language edition
of Wikipedia for testing (Q: How to select it?)
* Step 3: deploy the WIkidata client extension on a second language
edition of Wikipedia (Q: How to select it?)
* Step 4: deploy the Wikidata client extension on the English edition
of Wikipedia
* Step 5: deploy on all Wikipedias.

Details are on this page on Meta:

<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Deployment>

I would like to find the appropriate means to define how to implement
the above steps whether on this list or off it.

Even though Rob has given me unlimited license to be obnoxious on this
list about this, I will try not to. Mind the "try" :)

Cheers,
Denny

--
Project director Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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jmcclure at hypergrove

Jul 10, 2012, 1:47 PM

Post #2 of 21 (2235 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Hi Denny,

I am concerned about the performance impact of every
wikipedia calling an API for each property that it wishes to format as
content in pages' infoboxes, as I understand is the design the project
is pursuing. Could you please explain to this community why it's
technically superior to field a client/server API rather than
transclusion, e.g.,

{{wikidata:en:infobox:Thomas Jefferson}}

It
seems more stable a design to format the infobox on wikidata, and then
simply transclude the result.

Thanks in advance.
John

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daniel at brightbyte

Jul 10, 2012, 2:08 PM

Post #3 of 21 (2282 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On 10.07.2012 16:47, jmcclure [at] hypergrove wrote:
> I am concerned about the performance impact of every
> wikipedia calling an API for each property that it wishes to format as
> content in pages' infoboxes, as I understand is the design the project
> is pursuing.

No, that's not the case. The data objects will be cached in the client wiki
(i.e. wikipedia) and be loaded into memory once for any page that uses them.
Doing API calls during the render process would be very scary.

> Could you please explain to this community why it's
> technically superior to field a client/server API rather than
> transclusion, e.g.,
>
> {{wikidata:en:infobox:Thomas Jefferson}}
>
> It
> seems more stable a design to format the infobox on wikidata, and then
> simply transclude the result.

Keeping the control over the formatting in the client wiki seems desirable to
me, though I also see the appeal of a central repository for infobox templates.
We could just have both though, just like for images: use the local version if
it exists, otherwise use thetemplate form a central repo (which may be on the
wikidata site or somewhere else).


-- daniel

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jmcclure at hypergrove

Jul 10, 2012, 3:14 PM

Post #4 of 21 (2278 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Daniel,

I suggest there isn't a need for "data objects (that) will
be cached in the client wiki (i.e. wikipedia)". In the transclusion
approach, nothing at all is cached by the client wiki except the
infobox's HTML, within the squid cache as has been outlined. IOW, I'm
still wondering *why* data objects must be retrieved and then cached by
anyone, in the first place. And, so that I fully understand the wikidata
approach, isn't it actually true that the API calls that you say are NOT
occurring "during the render process (that) would be very scary", are
indeed executed during every purge of a wikipage?

If, as you imply,
transclusion meets wikidata's functional requirements, then would it
still be necessary to require every wikipedia to install the
client/server API (aka the "wikidata client")? What is so compelling
about the client/server approach? You say "Keeping the control over the
formatting in the client wiki seems desirable to me" overlooks the fact
that normal wiki rules-of-the-road apply within the wikidata environment
also, where authors certainly should be able to exert "control", likely
even more so, over infobox content & styling.

Thanks - john

On
10.07.2012 14:08, Daniel Kinzler wrote:

> On 10.07.2012 16:47,
jmcclure [at] hypergrove:
>
>> I am concerned about the performance
impact of every wikipedia calling an API for each property that it
wishes to format as content in pages' infoboxes, as I understand is the
design the project is pursuing.
>
> No, that's not the case. The data
objects will be cached in the client wiki
> (i.e. wikipedia) and be
loaded into memory once for any page that uses them.
> Doing API calls
during the render process would be very scary.
>
>> Could you please
explain to this community why it's technically superior to field a
client/server API rather than transclusion, e.g.,
{{wikidata:en:infobox:Thomas Jefferson}} It seems more stable a design
to format the infobox on wikidata, and then simply transclude the
result.
>
> Keeping the control over the formatting in the client wiki
seems desirable to
> me, though I also see the appeal of a central
repository for infobox templates.
> We could just have both though, just
like for images: use the local version if
> it exists, otherwise use
thetemplate form a central repo (which may be on the
> wikidata site or
somewhere else).
>
> -- daniel


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rkaldari at wikimedia

Jul 10, 2012, 5:17 PM

Post #5 of 21 (2284 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On 7/10/12 3:14 PM, jmcclure [at] hypergrove wrote:
> ...You say "Keeping the control over the
> formatting in the client wiki seems desirable to me" overlooks the fact
> that normal wiki rules-of-the-road apply within the wikidata environment
> also, where authors certainly should be able to exert "control", likely
> even more so, over infobox content & styling.

My understanding is that "normal wiki rules-of-the-road" will not apply
on WikiData, as the editing interface will be form-based, not
wikitext-based. WikiData will not house any infoboxes, only the data
that the Wikipedias will pull into their infoboxes (and elsewhere).

Housing the infoboxes on WikiData would be a terrible idea for several
reasons:
* Every Wikipedia does infoboxes differently depending on the policies
and conventions of that wiki (for example, on English Wikipedia we
strongly discourage flag icons in infoboxes, while other wikis don't care).
* Infoboxes are only 1 possible use of WikiData. Other possibilities:
** Setting the birth and death dates in the lead sentences of biographies
** Setting the coordinates displayed on geography articles
** Populating the interlanguage links (already planned)

Ryan Kaldari

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helianth at gmail

Jul 10, 2012, 5:24 PM

Post #6 of 21 (2283 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Denny and Wikimedians,

In what ways might World University and School (which is like
Wikipedia with MIT OCW), with plans to be in all 3,000-8,000
languages, and 200 countries, each a school or beginning university as
a wiki page, to begin, participate in this process? The English
version presently has nearly 500 wiki pages. Here's WUaS's Subject
Template, - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/SUBJECT_TEMPLATE -
as one key to WUaS's structure.

Cheers,
Scott





On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> On 7/10/12 3:14 PM, jmcclure [at] hypergrove wrote:
>>
>> ...You say "Keeping the control over the
>>
>> formatting in the client wiki seems desirable to me" overlooks the fact
>> that normal wiki rules-of-the-road apply within the wikidata environment
>> also, where authors certainly should be able to exert "control", likely
>> even more so, over infobox content & styling.
>
>
> My understanding is that "normal wiki rules-of-the-road" will not apply on
> WikiData, as the editing interface will be form-based, not wikitext-based.
> WikiData will not house any infoboxes, only the data that the Wikipedias
> will pull into their infoboxes (and elsewhere).
>
> Housing the infoboxes on WikiData would be a terrible idea for several
> reasons:
> * Every Wikipedia does infoboxes differently depending on the policies and
> conventions of that wiki (for example, on English Wikipedia we strongly
> discourage flag icons in infoboxes, while other wikis don't care).
> * Infoboxes are only 1 possible use of WikiData. Other possibilities:
> ** Setting the birth and death dates in the lead sentences of biographies
> ** Setting the coordinates displayed on geography articles
> ** Populating the interlanguage links (already planned)
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



--
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jmcclure at hypergrove

Jul 10, 2012, 6:01 PM

Post #7 of 21 (2278 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Hi Ryan,
Normal wiki rules of the road are about who can edit what
and when, not so much how, that I was referencing; I was responding to
the concern about "control".

You say: "Housing the infoboxes on
WikiData would be a terrible idea for several reasons:

* Every
Wikipedia does infoboxes differently depending on the policies and
conventions of that wiki (for example, on English Wikipedia we
strongly
discourage flag icons in infoboxes, while other wikis don't
care).

Reply: {{wikidata:en:infobox:Thomas Jefferson}} certainly can be
different in content & style from {{wikidata:de:infobox:Thomas
Jefferson}}, so the concern seems insubstantial to me. Noone is talking
about universal "policies & conventions".

* Infoboxes are only 1
possible use of WikiData. Other possibilities:
** Setting the birth and
death dates in the lead sentences of biographies
** Setting the
coordinates displayed on geography articles

Reply: You cite stable
unchanging data. But should the community considers the ability to
poll/re-poll/build/re-build constant data to be so important, then
create a transcludable page on wikidata to hold that information. Do a
{{subst:}} for that matter.

** Populating the interlanguage links
(already planned)

Reply: Again, another (important) transcludable
page.

So, I humbly continue to ask: why impose triples-level
client/server APIs on every wikipedia? What's being gained by such a
design?

Thanks in advance, John

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rkaldari at wikimedia

Jul 11, 2012, 11:10 AM

Post #8 of 21 (2278 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Personally, I think the focus of this discussion on infoboxes is
short-sighted. My personal hope is that Wikidata will actually allow the
Wikipedias to use fewer infoboxes (and when they are used, for them to
be much smaller). This may sound counter-intuitive, but let me explain...

<opinionated rant>
Right now, English Wikipedia suffers from a continually growing plague
of infobox cruft. Most articles on Wikipedia now look more like Pokemon
cards than Encyclopedia articles. Compare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Wollstonecraft
The problem with infoboxes is that they are inherently unencyclopedic.
Infoboxes are for viewing data, not for giving a nuanced and
comprehensive overview of a subject. In fact they actually detract from
that goal. The infobox for George Washington leads me to believe that he
had equal allegiance to Britain and the U.S., that he was a Deist
Episcopal (which is quite misleading in its simplicity), and that his
role as President of the United States was just as important as his role
as Delegate to the Second Continental Congress from Virginia. Not to
mention the fact that it's nearly 3 pages long! Imagine an infobox like
that sitting in http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington.

If we had a repository where people could put all the fact-cruft that
they want, they would probably be less tempted to spam the infoboxes
with it. And maybe at some point we could even replace infoboxes with a
"Data tab" or something similar that gave a full interface to the
Wikidata data, but without having it dominate the Wikipedia article (as
infoboxes do). I imagine that eventually the Wikidata content on many
subjects will exceed the Wikipedia content.

So my personal hope is that Wikidata will eventually allow us to think
outside the infobox. Heh, I think I'll make that my new slogan: "Think
outside the infobox!" Or maybe "Death to infoboxes! Long live Wikidata!" :)
</opinionated rant>

Disclaimer: I'm not directly involved with the Wikidata project, just an
interested onlooker.

Ryan Kaldari


On 7/10/12 6:01 PM, jmcclure [at] hypergrove wrote:
>
>
> Hi Ryan,
> Normal wiki rules of the road are about who can edit what
> and when, not so much how, that I was referencing; I was responding to
> the concern about "control".
>
> You say: "Housing the infoboxes on
> WikiData would be a terrible idea for several reasons:
>
> * Every
> Wikipedia does infoboxes differently depending on the policies and
> conventions of that wiki (for example, on English Wikipedia we
> strongly
> discourage flag icons in infoboxes, while other wikis don't
> care).
>
> Reply: {{wikidata:en:infobox:Thomas Jefferson}} certainly can be
> different in content & style from {{wikidata:de:infobox:Thomas
> Jefferson}}, so the concern seems insubstantial to me. Noone is talking
> about universal "policies & conventions".
>
> * Infoboxes are only 1
> possible use of WikiData. Other possibilities:
> ** Setting the birth and
> death dates in the lead sentences of biographies
> ** Setting the
> coordinates displayed on geography articles
>
> Reply: You cite stable
> unchanging data. But should the community considers the ability to
> poll/re-poll/build/re-build constant data to be so important, then
> create a transcludable page on wikidata to hold that information. Do a
> {{subst:}} for that matter.
>
> ** Populating the interlanguage links
> (already planned)
>
> Reply: Again, another (important) transcludable
> page.
>
> So, I humbly continue to ask: why impose triples-level
> client/server APIs on every wikipedia? What's being gained by such a
> design?
>
> Thanks in advance, John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


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erik at wikimedia

Jul 11, 2012, 11:34 AM

Post #9 of 21 (2281 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> The problem with infoboxes is that they are inherently unencyclopedic.
> Infoboxes are for viewing data, not for giving a nuanced and comprehensive
> overview of a subject.

Don't underestimate how much readers love infoboxes. We did a mobile
UX test a while ago, and it turned out that infoboxes were
accidentally broken on mobile at that specific time. Some testers
pointed this out quickly as a bug, along the lines of "Where's the
little table which gives you all the useful info at a glance". It's
not an accident that Google has integrated infobox-style information
into search results. Highly scannable info can be of great value to
readers.

So I'm not sure moving all this stuff outside of the article is ever a
good idea. But I agree there's a fair bit of cruft there as well, and
Wikidata could help separate key at-a-glance facts from details.
--
Erik Mller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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datzrott at alizeepathology

Jul 11, 2012, 11:42 AM

Post #10 of 21 (2232 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

>Don't underestimate how much readers love infoboxes.
>... Highly scannable info can be of great value to readers.

Agreed. I love Infoboxes and they are generally the first thing I read. I
will admit that the George Washington one is far too long though; at that
point it is no longer " Highly scannable info", but rather just a pile of
data.

>So I'm not sure moving all this stuff outside of the article is
>ever a good idea. But I agree there's a fair bit of cruft there
>as well, and Wikidata could help separate key at-a-glance
>facts from details.

I like the earlier mentioned idea of a Data tab for the extra information
that could be removed from longer infoboxes.

Thank you,
Derric Atzrott

P.S. Sorry about my terribly worded email to the list earlier this morning.
I was tired and didn't proof read it first to make sure that it actually
flowed according to the rules of English instead of my thoughts.


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wikiposta at gmail

Jul 11, 2012, 12:22 PM

Post #11 of 21 (2233 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

2012/7/10 Denny Vrandei <denny.vrandecic [at] wikimedia>

>
> * Step 2: deploy the Wikidata client extension on one language edition
> of Wikipedia for testing (Q: How to select it?)
>
I suggest the Hungarian Wikipedia as a medium-sized wiki with enthusiastic
contributors. You may find me and Tgr at Wikimania to speak about details

--
Binris
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denny.vrandecic at wikimedia

Jul 11, 2012, 1:56 PM

Post #12 of 21 (2237 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Yes, that would be awesome. Let us talk, ping me or Lydia.
On Jul 11, 2012 3:22 PM, "Bináris" <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:

> 2012/7/10 Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic [at] wikimedia>
>
> >
> > * Step 2: deploy the Wikidata client extension on one language edition
> > of Wikipedia for testing (Q: How to select it?)
> >
> I suggest the Hungarian Wikipedia as a medium-sized wiki with enthusiastic
> contributors. You may find me and Tgr at Wikimania to speak about details
>
> --
> Bináris
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
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>
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delirium at hackish

Jul 13, 2012, 7:31 AM

Post #13 of 21 (2278 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On 7/11/12 8:34 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>
>> The problem with infoboxes is that they are inherently unencyclopedic.
>> Infoboxes are for viewing data, not for giving a nuanced and comprehensive
>> overview of a subject.
> Don't underestimate how much readers love infoboxes. We did a mobile
> UX test a while ago, and it turned out that infoboxes were
> accidentally broken on mobile at that specific time. Some testers
> pointed this out quickly as a bug, along the lines of "Where's the
> little table which gives you all the useful info at a glance". It's
> not an accident that Google has integrated infobox-style information
> into search results. Highly scannable info can be of great value to
> readers.
>
> So I'm not sure moving all this stuff outside of the article is ever a
> good idea. But I agree there's a fair bit of cruft there as well, and
> Wikidata could help separate key at-a-glance facts from details.

One approach might be to allow per-article customization of which facts
are displayed in the article as quick facts in a box, and encourage that
to be a relatively small number.

The basic problem imo is that infoboxes tend to include the superset of
all information that *could* be useful fact-at-a-glance entry for *any*
article in a certain area. A slot is added when it makes sense for
Article X to display it, but once that slot exists, editors feel they
should feel it in for all other articles using the template too, so
every article gets every slot filled in, whether it's particularly
important information for that article's topic or not.

There's something to be said for uniformity of the infobox formatting,
but I think some deviation from uniformity may help make many of them
more readable.

-Mark


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lydia.pintscher at wikimedia

Jul 13, 2012, 3:31 PM

Post #14 of 21 (2273 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:
> 2012/7/10 Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic [at] wikimedia>
>
>>
>> * Step 2: deploy the Wikidata client extension on one language edition
>> of Wikipedia for testing (Q: How to select it?)
>>
> I suggest the Hungarian Wikipedia as a medium-sized wiki with enthusiastic
> contributors. You may find me and Tgr at Wikimania to speak about details

Hi!

Just to keep everyone updated: We have discussed this here at
Wikimania together with a few of the admins of the Hungarian
Wikipedia. Things are looking good and the next step is to take this
to the Hungarian Wikipedia to figure out if the community is ok with
this and then go for it if approved.


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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wikiposta at gmail

Jul 17, 2012, 6:01 PM

Post #15 of 21 (2229 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

2012/7/14 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher [at] wikimedia>

>
>
> Just to keep everyone updated: We have discussed this here at
> Wikimania together with a few of the admins of the Hungarian
> Wikipedia. Things are looking good and the next step is to take this
> to the Hungarian Wikipedia to figure out if the community is ok with
> this and then go for it if approved.
>
> The proposal has just been announced on village pump. Alea iacta est.

--
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helianth at gmail

Jul 20, 2012, 3:12 PM

Post #16 of 21 (2229 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Wikidatans,

Is there a possibility that we could also include German as a third
language here for deployment testing?

Not only are many Wikipedians on this list familiar with the German
Wikipedia and are German speakers (for a sizable development
community) but in beginning to develop World University and School's
(like Wikipedia with MIT OCW) second language (WUaS is planning for
all 3,000-8,000 languages and an universal translator -
http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator -
building on Google Translate +), I know German, and German open
educational resources will be significantly sizable in a way I can
read, and eventually aggregate.

Is this already happening, in addition to Hungarian (I'm fairly new on
this email list)?

World University and School is also interested in integrating, in this
early phase, WUaS's wiki development with Wikipedias in its deployment
on Wikidata, if at all possible.

Cheers,
Scott

http://scottmacleod.com

http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/World_University





On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Binris <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:
> 2012/7/14 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher [at] wikimedia>
>
>>
>>
>> Just to keep everyone updated: We have discussed this here at
>> Wikimania together with a few of the admins of the Hungarian
>> Wikipedia. Things are looking good and the next step is to take this
>> to the Hungarian Wikipedia to figure out if the community is ok with
>> this and then go for it if approved.
>>
>> The proposal has just been announced on village pump. Alea iacta est.
>
> --
> Binris
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikitech-l [at] lists
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lydia.pintscher at wikimedia

Jul 22, 2012, 4:48 AM

Post #17 of 21 (2216 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Scott MacLeod <helianth [at] gmail> wrote:
> Wikidatans,
>
> Is there a possibility that we could also include German as a third
> language here for deployment testing?
>
> Not only are many Wikipedians on this list familiar with the German
> Wikipedia and are German speakers (for a sizable development
> community) but in beginning to develop World University and School's
> (like Wikipedia with MIT OCW) second language (WUaS is planning for
> all 3,000-8,000 languages and an universal translator -
> http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator -
> building on Google Translate +), I know German, and German open
> educational resources will be significantly sizable in a way I can
> read, and eventually aggregate.
>
> Is this already happening, in addition to Hungarian (I'm fairly new on
> this email list)?
>
> World University and School is also interested in integrating, in this
> early phase, WUaS's wiki development with Wikipedias in its deployment
> on Wikidata, if at all possible.

Pending the requests for comments on huwp we will go with them as a
first step. After that other Wikipedias will follow as lined out on
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Deployment
WhichWikipedias those will be isn't decided yet. If dewp will be next
among other things heavily depends on if they want to be next ;-) So
far I have not heard anything in that direction.


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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helder.wiki at gmail

Jul 22, 2012, 5:41 PM

Post #18 of 21 (2214 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Personally, I think the focus of this discussion on infoboxes is
> short-sighted. My personal hope is that Wikidata will actually allow the
> Wikipedias to use fewer infoboxes (and when they are used, for them to be
> much smaller). This may sound counter-intuitive, but let me explain...
>
> <opinionated rant>
> Right now, English Wikipedia suffers from a continually growing plague of
> infobox cruft. Most articles on Wikipedia now look more like Pokemon cards
> than Encyclopedia articles. Compare:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Wollstonecraft
> The problem with infoboxes is that they are inherently unencyclopedic.
> Infoboxes are for viewing data, not for giving a nuanced and comprehensive
> overview of a subject. In fact they actually detract from that goal. The
> infobox for George Washington leads me to believe that he had equal
> allegiance to Britain and the U.S., that he was a Deist Episcopal (which is
> quite misleading in its simplicity), and that his role as President of the
> United States was just as important as his role as Delegate to the Second
> Continental Congress from Virginia. Not to mention the fact that it's nearly
> 3 pages long! Imagine an infobox like that sitting in
> http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington.
>
> If we had a repository where people could put all the fact-cruft that they
> want, they would probably be less tempted to spam the infoboxes with it. And
> maybe at some point we could even replace infoboxes with a "Data tab" or
> something similar that gave a full interface to the Wikidata data, but
> without having it dominate the Wikipedia article (as infoboxes do). I
> imagine that eventually the Wikidata content on many subjects will exceed
> the Wikipedia content.
>
> So my personal hope is that Wikidata will eventually allow us to think
> outside the infobox. Heh, I think I'll make that my new slogan: "Think
> outside the infobox!" Or maybe "Death to infoboxes! Long live Wikidata!" :)
> </opinionated rant>
>
> Disclaimer: I'm not directly involved with the Wikidata project, just an
> interested onlooker.

+1

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wikiposta at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 4:52 AM

Post #19 of 21 (2159 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

2012/7/14 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher [at] wikimedia>

>
> Just to keep everyone updated: We have discussed this here at
> Wikimania together with a few of the admins of the Hungarian
> Wikipedia. Things are looking good and the next step is to take this
> to the Hungarian Wikipedia to figure out if the community is ok with
> this and then go for it if approved.
>
> The poll is here:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Kocsmafal_%28m%C5%B1szaki%29#Tesztelhetj.C3.BCk_a_Wikidat.C3.A1t
Result: after some explanations we have 26 supporters in addition to 3
initiators/starters, and no opposers. (22 of them in the first 24 hours.)
As I wrote earlier, this is an enthusiastic community. So huwiki is looking
forward to test Wikidata. :-) Let's do it!

--
Binris
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lydia.pintscher at wikimedia

Jul 24, 2012, 5:59 AM

Post #20 of 21 (2204 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:
> Result: after some explanations we have 26 supporters in addition to 3
> initiators/starters, and no opposers. (22 of them in the first 24 hours.)
> As I wrote earlier, this is an enthusiastic community. So huwiki is looking
> forward to test Wikidata. :-) Let's do it!

That is really great news. Thank you! I'll keep you posted as soon as
we have more news about the next steps and dates.


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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helianth at gmail

Aug 5, 2012, 2:57 PM

Post #21 of 21 (2126 views)
Permalink
Re: Deployment of Wikidata [In reply to]

Wikitechians,

It's exciting that the Hungarian Wikipedia folks will be first to
deploy in Wikidata, and the Italian Wikipedia people may be the 2nd!

What's the deployment plan, for languages 10 through 285 (number of
Wikipedia languages) through 7,358 (per "The Ethnologue"),
particularly in terms of developing community email lists (graduate
students?)

Is there a Meta Wiki deployment page for all languages, paralleling
this - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Deployment?

What's the current state of email lists / wiki pages for all of
Wikipedia's 285 language communities?
(Wikipedia is now in 285 languages, as of August 2012 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Wikipedia).


In this deployment process, would a 7,358 language-deep, universal
translator, or security questions, in TOR, for example, as part of
Wikipedia, influence deployment in any heretofore unforeseen ways?

World University and School is planning for all 3000-8000 languages,
each as a wiki page to begin:
http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages. WUaS is like
Wikipedia with MIT OCW, with free, online degrees planned.

World University and School also plans to deploy in Wikidata, and in
all 3,000-8,000 languages, each a wiki, subject page / school, to
begin. WUaS bases this range on "The Ethnologue" -
http://www.ethnologue.com/ - which now says they have 6,909 languages,
whereas Wikipedia says they have 7,358 languages -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnologue. WUaS also plans to facilitate
the development of an universal translator -
http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator -
building on Google Translate and others.

So many languages, and as wikis, is wondrous ... :)

Hungarian and Italian Wikipedia rock!

Cheers,
Scott / Aphilo






On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Lydia Pintscher
<lydia.pintscher [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Binris <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Result: after some explanations we have 26 supporters in addition to 3
>> initiators/starters, and no opposers. (22 of them in the first 24 hours.)
>> As I wrote earlier, this is an enthusiastic community. So huwiki is looking
>> forward to test Wikidata. :-) Let's do it!
>
> That is really great news. Thank you! I'll keep you posted as soon as
> we have more news about the next steps and dates.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Community Communications for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Obentrautstr. 72
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Frderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinntzig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt fr Krperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



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http://scottmacleod.com/worlduniversityandschool.htm

This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged
and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you
have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you.

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