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EtherEditor extension testing

 

 

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marktraceur at riseup

Jun 19, 2012, 5:33 PM

Post #1 of 10 (677 views)
Permalink
EtherEditor extension testing

Hello, wikitech-l!

I'm pleased to announce a new (or perhaps, revived) extension for
MediaWiki, the EtherEditor. It's a way to allow collaborative editing of
any wiki page.

The technical implications of that concept aren't totally fleshed out
yet, but I have it working to the point where I can show people!

I have set up an instance of MediaWiki [0] with the extension installed.
In order to use it, you need to log in and enable the preference (the
instructions page [1] has it in more detail), and then you can edit
things collaboratively with other people.

This wiki isn't meant for extended use, or for storing sensitive (or
even slightly important) data. It will _very likely_ lose data from time
to time, so don't pour your heart into any edits. That being said, I
hope this added feature will be fun for everyone! If you have ideas or
bug reports, please put them at the Feedback page [2], for lack of a
better place (currently).

You can also access public pads at the actual Etherpad Lite instance on
the machine [3], but again, don't expect those pads to be there, and
don't use it for important information.

The major new features, which are still in testing and could use
feedback, are the edit buttons at the top of every editor. I'm aware
that there are no icons in some (most) of the buttons, but I'm working
on it. Other feature requests would be nice, since the project could
feasibly go in a lot of different directions at this point.

Oh, and for anyone who wants the code, it can be found in Gerrit [4]. Be
sure to check the README for the configuration variables, because
they're possibly confusing.

[0] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[1] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Instructions
[2] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Feedback
[3] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad
[4]
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/extensions/EtherEditor.git;a=summary

Thanks to everyone, and have fun!

--
Mark Holmquist
Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
mtraceur [at] member
http://marktraceur.info

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mail at tgries

Jun 19, 2012, 11:17 PM

Post #2 of 10 (653 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

Am 20.06.2012 02:33, schrieb Mark Holmquist:
> Hello, wikitech-l!
>
> I'm pleased to announce a new (or perhaps, revived) extension for
> MediaWiki, the EtherEditor. It's a way to allow collaborative editing
> of any wiki page.

A /different /approach is my extension
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EtherpadLite (in SVN) which was
developed some months ago.
It's target is not to replace the MediaWiki editor, but to embed one or
more Etherpads (Etherpad lite) in frames_in_ a rendered MediaWiki page.
In that respect it differs from your announced EtherEditor extension.
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


martijnhoekstra at gmail

Jun 19, 2012, 11:39 PM

Post #3 of 10 (655 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

Great, we've been needing something like this! Do you have a ballpark
figure when you expect the data loss issues to be under control, and maybe
have something for beta testing?
Op 20 jun. 2012 02:33 schreef "Mark Holmquist" <marktraceur [at] riseup> het
volgende:

> Hello, wikitech-l!
>
> I'm pleased to announce a new (or perhaps, revived) extension for
> MediaWiki, the EtherEditor. It's a way to allow collaborative editing of
> any wiki page.
>
> The technical implications of that concept aren't totally fleshed out yet,
> but I have it working to the point where I can show people!
>
> I have set up an instance of MediaWiki [0] with the extension installed.
> In order to use it, you need to log in and enable the preference (the
> instructions page [1] has it in more detail), and then you can edit things
> collaboratively with other people.
>
> This wiki isn't meant for extended use, or for storing sensitive (or even
> slightly important) data. It will _very likely_ lose data from time to
> time, so don't pour your heart into any edits. That being said, I hope this
> added feature will be fun for everyone! If you have ideas or bug reports,
> please put them at the Feedback page [2], for lack of a better place
> (currently).
>
> You can also access public pads at the actual Etherpad Lite instance on
> the machine [3], but again, don't expect those pads to be there, and don't
> use it for important information.
>
> The major new features, which are still in testing and could use feedback,
> are the edit buttons at the top of every editor. I'm aware that there are
> no icons in some (most) of the buttons, but I'm working on it. Other
> feature requests would be nice, since the project could feasibly go in a
> lot of different directions at this point.
>
> Oh, and for anyone who wants the code, it can be found in Gerrit [4]. Be
> sure to check the README for the configuration variables, because they're
> possibly confusing.
>
> [0] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/**wiki/index.php/Main_Page<http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>
> [1] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/**wiki/index.php/Instructions<http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Instructions>
> [2] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/**wiki/index.php/Feedback<http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Feedback>
> [3] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/**pad <http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad>
> [4] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/**r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/**
> extensions/EtherEditor.git;a=**summary<https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/extensions/EtherEditor.git;a=summary>
>
> Thanks to everyone, and have fun!
>
> --
> Mark Holmquist
> Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
> mtraceur [at] member
> http://marktraceur.info
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l>
>
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dereckson at espace-win

Jun 20, 2012, 12:43 AM

Post #4 of 10 (655 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

Hi,

>> I'm pleased to announce a new (or perhaps, revived) extension for
>> MediaWiki, the EtherEditor. It's a way to allow collaborative editing
>> of any wiki page.
I quickly tested, the integration seems clean to me.

A good question would be "How to define best practices to save the
revision (e.g. credits to the people having participated to the
collaborative edit)?".

> A /different /approach is my extension
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EtherpadLite (in SVN) which was
> developed some months ago.
> It's target is not to replace the MediaWiki editor, but to embed one or
> more Etherpads (Etherpad lite) in frames_in_ a rendered MediaWiki page.
> In that respect it differs from your announced EtherEditor extension.
I prefer the Mark approach as more universal, as it solves the need
"Edit together an article", and yours is more "Embed a document". The
multi frames screenshots page don't seem very ergonomic.

--
Sébastien Santoro aka Dereckson
http://www.dereckson.be/

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rlane32 at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 2:23 AM

Post #5 of 10 (646 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Martijn Hoekstra
<martijnhoekstra [at] gmail> wrote:
> Great, we've been needing something like this! Do you have a ballpark
> figure when you expect the data loss issues to be under control, and maybe
> have something for beta testing?
> Op 20 jun. 2012 02:33 schreef "Mark Holmquist" <marktraceur [at] riseup> het
> volgende:
>

I don't think there's an issue with data-loss, just these pads are for
testing purposes only. Occasionally the data may be wiped for testing,
or the instance will be deleted and re-created, etc. We want to ensure
people don't see this as a production etherpad instance.

- Ryan

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benapetr at gmail

Jun 20, 2012, 2:34 AM

Post #6 of 10 (657 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

so bad it requires to connect to some port. My network is firewalled
and I can't access any other port than 80 and 443 and some other (22
etc). I guess I am not the only one on firewalled network. Can you
make the service be bound to apache so that it's on port 80 as well?

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Ryan Lane <rlane32 [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Martijn Hoekstra
> <martijnhoekstra [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Great, we've been needing something like this! Do you have a ballpark
>> figure when you expect the data loss issues to be under control, and maybe
>> have something for beta testing?
>> Op 20 jun. 2012 02:33 schreef "Mark Holmquist" <marktraceur [at] riseup> het
>> volgende:
>>
>
> I don't think there's an issue with data-loss, just these pads are for
> testing purposes only. Occasionally the data may be wiped for testing,
> or the instance will be deleted and re-created, etc. We want to ensure
> people don't see this as a production etherpad instance.
>
> - Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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mail at tgries

Jun 20, 2012, 5:11 AM

Post #7 of 10 (648 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

the Etherpad needs to be run behind a reverse proxy.
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sumanah at wikimedia

Jun 20, 2012, 9:15 AM

Post #8 of 10 (648 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

On 06/19/2012 05:33 PM, Mark Holmquist wrote:
> Hello, wikitech-l!
>
> I'm pleased to announce a new (or perhaps, revived) extension for
> MediaWiki, the EtherEditor. It's a way to allow collaborative editing of
> any wiki page.
>
> The technical implications of that concept aren't totally fleshed out
> yet, but I have it working to the point where I can show people!
>
> I have set up an instance of MediaWiki [0] with the extension installed.
> In order to use it, you need to log in and enable the preference (the
> instructions page [1] has it in more detail), and then you can edit
> things collaboratively with other people.
>
> This wiki isn't meant for extended use, or for storing sensitive (or
> even slightly important) data. It will _very likely_ lose data from time
> to time, so don't pour your heart into any edits. That being said, I
> hope this added feature will be fun for everyone! If you have ideas or
> bug reports, please put them at the Feedback page [2], for lack of a
> better place (currently).
>
> You can also access public pads at the actual Etherpad Lite instance on
> the machine [3], but again, don't expect those pads to be there, and
> don't use it for important information.
>
> The major new features, which are still in testing and could use
> feedback, are the edit buttons at the top of every editor. I'm aware
> that there are no icons in some (most) of the buttons, but I'm working
> on it. Other feature requests would be nice, since the project could
> feasibly go in a lot of different directions at this point.
>
> Oh, and for anyone who wants the code, it can be found in Gerrit [4]. Be
> sure to check the README for the configuration variables, because
> they're possibly confusing.
>
> [0] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> [1] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Instructions
> [2] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Feedback
> [3] http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad
> [4]
> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/extensions/EtherEditor.git;a=summary
>
>
> Thanks to everyone, and have fun!

Thanks for this, Mark!

I recommend that you add some documentation about your work to
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future/Real-time_collaboration .

Ashish Dubey, a current Google Summer of Code student, is working on
real-time collaborative editing to be built into the new Visual Editor:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Dash1291

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

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marktraceur at riseup

Jun 20, 2012, 9:52 AM

Post #9 of 10 (657 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

Some great feedback overnight! Let me try to address everyone's issues
at once:

Thomas, I had looked at your extension briefly, but realized that, while
it would be nice to have pads _in_ pages, it would take some extra work
to use them to edit--this included API calls, for example, so I couldn't
really use what you had done to that point. I used the previous attempts
with WikiEditor, at least for a start:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/extensions-realtime/

Martijn, it should only take a little while to hammer out the kinks in
this extension. Then again, it's rather difficult to judge the
difficulty of something when I haven't fully defined how it will work!
There should be more details about that later today, hopefully then I
can update you.

Sebastien, one of the things I need to define is how edits happen, i.e.,
what happens when User A clicks "submit". If we just save the text and
delete the pad (as now), then yes, very little else is possible. I'm
sure the final implementation will determine the author(s) who modified
the pad, and include that information somewhere.

Ryan, you're ruining my "rule with an iron fist and random data
deletion" strategy! The point I wanted to get across was that A) it's
not likely that this wiki will be up at any give point and B) the data
may very well disappear, depending on how I need to change the system.

Petr and Thomas, I've put the etherpad instance behind a reverse proxy
now, and configured it so the extension uses the proxy rather than the
actual instance. Now http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad will act as a
reverse proxy rather than a simple redirect!

Sumana, I'm on my way to add some notes there, and I've already mailed
Ashish about the extension. (and sorry about that duplicate I sent only
to you, I need to enable reply-to-list by default on my mail client)

From the feedback page: There's some concern about revisions being
saved. Those revisions will be lost anyway, so it's probably a good idea
to just disable that feature somehow. I'll dig around in the Etherpad
Lite configuration to see if it's possible, else maybe I'll add another
plugin for that purpose.

Also, the chat window can overlap the pad itself, but there is a
minimize button on the screen, so be sure to use it if you need to. I
will consider making the iframe a bit bigger, though.

Finally, yes, the three buttons at the bottom of the page currently all
submit the form with the same action, so there's no "preview" or "show
changes" yet. I'll work on that later today as well.

Thanks again for all the help, and keep it coming! :)

--
Mark Holmquist
Contractor, Wikimedia Foundation
mtraceur [at] member
http://marktraceur.info

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mail at tgries

Jun 20, 2012, 1:15 PM

Post #10 of 10 (646 views)
Permalink
Re: EtherEditor extension testing [In reply to]

Am 20.06.2012 18:52, schrieb Mark Holmquist:
> Some great feedback overnight! Let me try to address everyone's issues
> at once:
>
> Thomas, I had looked at your extension briefly, but realized that,
> while it would be nice to have pads _in_ pages, it would take some
> extra work to use them to edit--this included API calls, for example,
> so I couldn't really use what you had done to that point. I used the
> previous attempts with WikiEditor, at least for a start:
> http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/extensions-realtime/
Thanks for acknowledging that. I just wanted to mention my (differently
flavoured) approach which solves a different, and easier problem.


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